Church licence?

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Posts 4
Tim Lister | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Aug 21 2013 6:46 AM

I'm sure this has already been answered somewhere before, although sadly my searching didn't find anything.

Is it possible for more than one person to use a single logos licence?

I'd like to buy several commentaries and commentary sets to add to my logos library. However it would be the church that pays for it, and if I bought print copies other staff members could use them. Is there a way to have a licence that is designed for use by churches with a staff?

I simply can't see the advantage in buying the logos version over print if i'm the only one allowed to read it.

Any advice?

thanks.

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 21 2013 6:54 AM

http://www.logos.com/support/EULA - it suffices to read the topmost summary.

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 21 2013 6:57 AM

Welcome to the forums Tim. Hope you return often.

The simple answer to your question is "no". Logos is licensed to one user and each person must get their own. This is especially the case in a church setting like yours. On the other hand Logos is generous in their interpretation of this for those who are married and the spouse is an occasional user.

There are good introductory packages available and I would encourage you to consider that. I am a big believer in Logos and would highly encourage you to consider investing in it as there are so many advantages over paper books.

All the best as you make your choice.

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 21 2013 7:01 AM

Tim a big welcome to the forum!

Your question is a common one. And Logos has spent much effort explaining (without much success). But they target a single user with multiple devices, and then negotiate with publishers with those terms.

So, a church or seminary contract is not in the picture.


Posts 4
Tim Lister | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 21 2013 7:03 AM

Thanks for the quick and informative replies. 

I already own a Logos library (Silver at present), I enjoy the benefits, especially when working with the original languages for my sermon prep.

I was considering adding commentary bundles to my library, however there is little or no cost saving over the hard copy and the inability to allow others to use the books (which of course does not exist with print books) means I won't be adding to my library. It's a shame as I really like the software.

Thanks for your help.

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William Gabriel | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 21 2013 7:09 AM

Tim,

As you can see from other replies, the answer is no, but I've always been an advocate of a site-license model for Logos. I think it would be helpful in the academic setting but also, as you mention, in a church setting. Most posters on the forum seem to disagree with me, but I'm going to stick to my guns and ask for such a setup again.

Bill

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 21 2013 7:22 AM

William Gabriel:
Most posters on the forum seem to disagree with me, but I'm going to stick to my guns and ask for such a setup again.

I am not sure many are actually against a site license option. It is just that the single-user license does not allow for it. The current pricing structure does not compensate the publishers for multiple users on one license. If Logos were to offer a site license there would probably be negotiations for publishers to get paid more. This would require a different pricing structure for resources. Different publishers would have different demands. Logos can not unilaterally offer a site license to resources they do not own.

Disclaimer: The preceding opinion is mine alone and is not privy to the contract negotiations Logos has with it's publishing partners.

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Posts 4
Tim Lister | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 21 2013 7:29 AM

 If Logos were to offer a site license there would probably be negotiations for publishers to get paid more.

This does make sense, the problem is that the Logos version of the material is no cheaper than I can find it on-line in print editions. If Logos were to amend their pricing structure to allow this to happen (in agreement with publishers etc.) I can't see it being financially worth it to use Logos over print in a church setting.

Oh well.

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William Gabriel | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 21 2013 7:38 AM

Super Tramp:

I am not sure many are actually against a site license option. It is just that the single-user license does not allow for it. The current pricing structure does not compensate the publishers for multiple users on one license. If Logos were to offer a site license there would probably be negotiations for publishers to get paid more. This would require a different pricing structure, Different publishers would have different demands. Logos can not unilaterally offer a site license to resources they do not own.

Disclaimer: The preceding opinion is mine alone and is not privy to the contract negotiations Logos has with it's publishing partners.

Yes, if Logos can separate out the licensing from the UI a bit, then I think they can make a model that works. I also think they have economic incentive to pursue it, as I believe they'll find a lot of institutions with deeper pockets than individuals (also, I believe they could finally get their rental model to work). If I had to ballpark, I'm guessing that Logos is losing 75% of their potential revenue by ignoring this segment (this is where companies like MS make all their money).

I'm sure Logos will need to renegotiate with publishers for site licenses. I'm sure they'll have to pay more. I'm sure a church or a school would be willing to pay more. It will be a win for everybody.

There may need to be a bit of infrastructure work they'll need to do. They could even enforce a "one book is used by one user at a time" model if they're able to integrate the site license idea into the UI. It would be great if a user could "add to" their library by adding a site license at the institution they're a part of for the time they're there (naturally only losing access to those books when they leave). Makes me think they'd get a bunch more individual sales as users find resources they can't live without after having perused them from the site-licensed "library".

Logos is working hard to find out about it's users so they can sell more books. I really think their efforts would be better spent working toward selling to churches and schools.

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 21 2013 7:46 AM

William Gabriel:
I really think their efforts would be better spent working toward selling to churches and schools.

I agree there is money to be made here. That is why I think we eventually will see something develop.

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Erik | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 21 2013 11:14 AM

I would think a per seat license at an enterprise level would be a more workable solution than a blanket site license.  Logos could put further WAN/LAN and time-based restrictions as well.

A blanket site license would be a sieve, but an auditable seat license arrangement at the academic level could greatly benefit Logos.  However, I am not privy to their margins or other business considerations to really know the answer to this.  If Logos hooked seminarians early, it might pay off in the long run once students leave school and no longer have access. 

Lexis/Nexis and Westlaw did this when I was in law school in the early 90s.

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Paul Golder | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 21 2013 11:21 AM

I'm sure that organizational / site licencing will be addressed when Logos switches to a web based subscription model.

"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."

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Rev Chris | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 4 2014 6:37 AM

Been a while since I've been on here, but I had idealistic (and foolish hopes) Bob might have changed his thinking on this.  One can dream...

The thing that doesn't make sense to me is why Logos would have to do anything different.  Libraries don't pay more for the print books they buy.  Nobody cries fowl when someone donates a book to a public library.  I've even seen public libraries accept Kindle book donations from its patrons.  What am I missing here?

Do other Bible software companies allow this?

Pastor, seminary trustee, and app developer.  Check out my latest app for churches: The Church App

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 4 2014 7:23 AM

35366:
 Libraries don't pay more for the print books they buy.

Actually they do frequently pay more. (Or they should.) There are often separate licenses for public and private use. Bob Pritchett's mother holds a library science degree. I imagine she has shared her knowledge of library licensing with Bob.

Another thing to consider is what the copyright holders may require. 

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Whyndell Grizzard | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 4 2014 7:27 AM

It would be beneficial for a church to own the software package- when a new pastor comes on board they could change the password, thus disabling the previous pastors version.

This would give Logos a chance to contact the previous pastor and offer him or his new church an opportunity to activate what he has at a good price.

Or give them a chance to buy a lower package at a discount.

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fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 4 2014 8:33 AM

Rev Chris:
Libraries don't pay more for the print books they buy.

A print book can only be used by one person at a time, and if a hundred people use it, it's going to wear out a hundred times faster. For both of those reasons libraries frequently have to pay for several copies. And they frequently have to pay for a better binding. 

Furthermore, books that are mainly found in libraries often cost a lot more, precisely for that reason (Brill and so on...).

And at least when it comes to electronic things like films, libraries do pay more. A lot more. 

Whyndell Grizzard:
It would be beneficial for a church to own the software package- when a new pastor comes on board they could change the password, thus disabling the previous pastors version.

This is already perfectly possible, as long as only one employee uses it, and as long as they make sure that he removes all the church's resources from any private computer or backup before he leaves.

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Posts 225
Alex Bui | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 4 2014 8:42 AM

I have similar thoughts in the last few months.  I have talked to keyed people in my church about purchase multiple packages for Sunday School teachers and group leaders, but the cost is too much for our church without academic discount.  Otherwise, the multiple licences and the Mobile Ed courses will be perfect for training and strengthening our lay leadership teams.  We have other training modules in place but with additional resources like Logos that would be great.  I am currently praying for a purchase for our new full time youth pastor, so he has a base package and a budget for books that he needs for his ministry.  

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 4 2014 9:15 AM

fgh:

Whyndell Grizzard:
It would be beneficial for a church to own the software package- when a new pastor comes on board they could change the password, thus disabling the previous pastors version.

This is already perfectly possible, as long as only one employee uses it, and as long as they make sure that he removes all the church's resources from any private computer or backup before he leaves.

Technically the license has to be in a person's name. Practically it can be transferred from the departing individual to someone else.

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Alex Bui | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 4 2014 9:29 AM

Thank you Super Tramp for bringing forward the issues on the other thread.  I support you wholeheartedly.  It was muddy over there so I didn't say anything, Smile

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Rev Chris | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 4 2014 9:32 AM

fgh:

Rev Chris:
Libraries don't pay more for the print books they buy.

A print book can only be used by one person at a time, and if a hundred people use it, it's going to wear out a hundred times faster. For both of those reasons libraries frequently have to pay for several copies. And they frequently have to pay for a better binding. 

Furthermore, books that are mainly found in libraries often cost a lot more, precisely for that reason (Brill and so on...).

And at least when it comes to electronic things like films, libraries do pay more. A lot more. 

I haven't worked in a library, so some of you certainly know more than I do.  But it would be really easy for a library to limit use of an electronic resource to one person at a time - just limit the installation of Logos on only one machine.

For electronic resources, I'm sure films require quite a bit extra.  But like I said, I've seen public libraries allows people to buy a Kindle book and donate it to the library.  Maybe it was a couple extra dollars, I forget, but I don't think so.  If it was, it wasn't much I know that.

Also, it doesn't answer the question about library donations.  Every library I've known has accepted book donations from people.  Has that always been illegal?  If so, I can't imagine a library out there that's not been in violation of copyright.

Even if Logos would offer a limited set of resources - perhaps their own publications and maybe get the rights for a good Bible dictionary and commentary series - a lot of churches would benefit.  And I'm sure it would generate personal sales once people started seeing what the software could do.

I didn't get an answer to my other question - which was about other software that offers such a license.  A 30-second search on Google revealed that they do, though.  I won't mention names, since they're competitors of Logos, but let's just say other big companies have figured this out.  I guess I'll have to direct my church toward them.

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