BUG: Context Menu Morph searches do not set the appropriate range (RC1)

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Dec 18 2009 9:03 PM | Locked

Context Menu searches do not set the appropriate range, especially when a Search Target is present eg.

Morph Search uses previous "New Testament" range for a query on an OT word.

When there is no Target, Morph Search will use the last range set by a search.

Note: With correct range Morph Search is OK.

 

 

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Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 19 2009 2:12 AM | Locked

I can confirm this....

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Bradley Grainger (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 21 2009 10:10 AM | Locked

Dave Hooton:

Context Menu searches do not set the appropriate range, especially when a Search Target is present eg.

What is the "appropriate range"? I'm assuming that if you had set up a Search Target specifically to search the Pentateuch, you wouldn't want that search range reset every time you launched a new search. Even if there were zero hits, that could be important information for the study you're performing.

Is the desired logic that if there are zero hits, and the current verse range "could not possibly contain" (however that is defined) the search term, then the search range should be reset to the appropriate testament or "All Passages"? Is this auto-correction only applied for Hebrew and Greek lemmas (and Strong's numbers) or should it fix up other searches too, e.g., searching for Jesus in the Old Testament (assuming your OT doesn't contain Sirach)?

 

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Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 22 2009 8:48 AM | Locked

Bradley,

First: MERRY CHRISTMAS!

Now; to offer an observation: When you choose ANY syntax search; when it actually opens the floating window...it will ALWAYS defaul to the Andersen forbes database, even if you started the search by clicking:

Search>syntax (cascadia for example) > Query

It's a bit irritating to have to go through the extra steps of choosing the NT database twice!

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 26 2009 1:46 AM | Locked

Bradley Grainger:

Dave Hooton:

Context Menu searches do not set the appropriate range, especially when a Search Target is present eg.

What is the "appropriate range"? I'm assuming that if you had set up a Search Target specifically to search the Pentateuch, you wouldn't want that search range reset every time you launched a new search. Even if there were zero hits, that could be important information for the study you're performing.

Is the desired logic that if there are zero hits, and the current verse range "could not possibly contain" (however that is defined) the search term, then the search range should be reset to the appropriate testament or "All Passages"? Is this auto-correction only applied for Hebrew and Greek lemmas (and Strong's numbers) or should it fix up other searches too, e.g., searching for Jesus in the Old Testament (assuming your OT doesn't contain Sirach)?

Bradley,  I'm talking about a Morph search initiated from the Context Menu!  It has to set up all the required parameters as does "Search this resource", whether or not  a Search Target is being used.

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Bradley Grainger (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 28 2009 2:27 PM | Locked

Dave Hooton:

Bradley,  I'm talking about a Morph search initiated from the Context Menu!  It has to set up all the required parameters as does "Search this resource", whether or not  a Search Target is being used.

Why does searching from the context menu need to reset the search range? What if I wanted to search the Pentateuch for several different words in a row, launching each search from the context menu? Or should that scenario not be supported?

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David R. McAllan | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 28 2009 10:04 PM | Locked

Bradley Grainger:

Why does searching from the context menu need to reset the search range? What if I wanted to search the Pentateuch for several different words in a row, launching each search from the context menu? Or should that scenario not be supported?

It seems to me that it is not so much a bug as a matter of software design. I can see Bradley's point on multiply searches on the one search range. However, on the other hand, I think some recognition could be built into the system so that a Heb morp search could default to the OT (Gen-Mal) as a range & Gk to its range (Matt-Rev).

Perhaps something more specific could be added to the context menu to overcome this. One thing I really miss is the "Search..." in L3 context menu. I don't like to have a search begin when it is not searching my specific search range. For some runs, I prefer to use "Search...", set my range etc., then intitate the search.

Something like this could be added into the context menu and it could be designed to remember the last search as it's default. It should then satisfy a repeat query on a specific search range. Yet on the current options we have in L4's context menu (Morph search etc.), enable them to default back according to either Heb or Gk words, to either Gen-Mal or Matt-Rev.

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Jon | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 29 2009 1:11 AM | Locked

 

David McAllan:
Heb morp search could default to the OT (Gen-Mal) as a range & Gk to its range (Matt-Rev).

The same result would be achieved by having both always default to All Passages; and wouldn't cause headaches when doing searches in LXX (or theoretically a hebrew NT if you had one).

I think the design principle Bradley has laid out is right; which if I've understood rightly; is that it should retain the last search range - having it change on the basis that there is 0 results is not a good idea.

The question is, is it possible to apply some logic to the range selector to prevent non-sensical queries when running morph search from a right-click menu? I think it should by analogy with the morph selector. Ie when I choose ESV, I can't choose GRAMCORD morphology because the ESV isn't keyed to the GRAMCORD database. You could apply similar logic to the passage selector, searching for a hebrew lemma in ESV should never default to New Testament because ESV NT is not keyed to a hebrew database, at which point it could default back to All Passages... This sort of logic is already there in some sense; for all the original language resources you can only choose OT or NT depending on what they contain; its only an issue for the reverse interlinears since they have the whole bible with two different original languages.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 29 2009 4:42 PM | Locked

Bradley Grainger:
Why does searching from the context menu need to reset the search range? What if I wanted to search the Pentateuch for several different words in a row, launching each search from the context menu? Or should that scenario not be supported?

I appreciate the replies of Jon and David, but here is my basic issue:-

  • I have several Search tabs which are not open.
  • None are Morph searches and none is a Target.
  • I'm oblivious to their content
  • There is no meaningful range to reset.
  • I initiate a Morph Search from Context menu (Christ from 2 Cor 5:17, ESV)
  • It opens a new Search tab
  • The range is Matt-John, but WHY?

Where is the logic that picks Matt-John, when I would expect All Passages as with "Search this resource"

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Bradley Grainger (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 7 2010 10:50 AM | Locked

Dave Hooton:

Where is the logic that picks Matt-John, when I would expect All Passages as with "Search this resource"

Now I understand the inconsistency between "Search this resource" and "Morph Search".

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 8 2010 2:37 AM | Locked

Bradley Grainger:
Now I understand the inconsistency between "Search this resource" and "Morph Search".

I was really wondering if the penny would dropSmile

Dave
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