This Happened, Even Though Everything Is Working as Designed

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BillS | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 12 2013 2:43 PM

Francis:

When there is a deadline approaching, it is just not a good idea to proceed with updates because there are always unpredictable things that can happen.

Agreed. I DID have a choice on Microsoft's patch Tuesday, & I took a calculated risk. However, it's been a VERY long time since Logos released a 1,000 book update. And every few days, there's a free book on Vyrso that I'd like to have downloaded immediately. Or there's a CP I'd pre-ordered that I'd also like downloaded immediately. None of those is a 1,000 book download. And none of them would've caused the problem I experienced. I'd argue that I didn't have much choice but to proceed with the Logos update, once it'd started, given the way events unfolded.

Francis:

I know it is possible to access Logos in offline mode but it would be good if there was also a button -- on that sign on dialog -- for a "safe mode" that bypasses processes like downloading, indexing and syncing. 

I like it!

Francis:

Say, are we conceding now that we can't do Bible Study without our computers anymore? What would happen if the computer suddenly went belly up or electricity was down? Once in a while we are reminded that there are dangers to putting all our eggs in one (electronic) basket.

Not at all. After seminary training, preaching through the lectionary for 10 years (my own sermons), & 10 years of leading / writing (the curriculum I teach) Bible studies, I believe you & I could sit down, open a paper Bible, & I could facilitate a good Bible study even if it could've been richer with access to Logos. One of the things I enjoy most about Bible studies using Logos is access to real time answers via Logos search & resources... With Logos it's much richer & deeper... Without Logos, we'll still have Bible study. Just different.

Blessings!

Grace & Peace,
Bill


MSI GF63 8RD, I-7 8850H, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, 2TB HDD, NVIDIA GTX 1050Max
Samsung S9+, 64GB
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Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 12 2013 3:25 PM

I hope someone at Logos is reading this thread, even if there's been no reply ...

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 12 2013 5:28 PM

Francis:
More broadly than just Logos, my past experiences have taught me that updates and deadlines are a recipe for disaster. When there is a deadline approaching, it is just not a good idea to proceed with updates because there are always unpredictable things that can happen.

Totally agree.

Francis:
I know it is possible to access Logos in offline mode but it would be good if there was also a button -- on that sign on dialog -- for a "safe mode" that bypasses processes like downloading, indexing and syncing. 

"Safe mode" exists and is called "Work Offline"! If already indexing you just have to Pause it.

Dave
===

Windows 10 & Android 8

Posts 10771
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 12 2013 5:55 PM

Yep, I'm dead in the water, Logos-wise. I don't want that big update chewing up my cellular. So I'm 'off-line.'  Kindle works fine. I suppose this all makes sense to Logosian-chief.

"I didn't know God made honky tonk angels."

Posts 3763
Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 13 2013 9:33 AM

BillS:
Without Logos, we'll still have Bible study. Just different.
 

I agree with you, Bill. I know this is a bit of a rabbit trail, but I do wonder sometimes how we would do if we were imprisoned and did not have access to any resource, perhaps not even to a Bible. How much knowledge do we really carry with us? This kind of question is relevant even to how we use our logos resources. For instance, we may never develop actual proficiency in biblical languages because we figure all we need is to understand the theory and turn to our reference tools as needed. Of course, we all know that we who live in Western democratic countries can quite "legitimately" afford to be complacent about this kind of questions... Stick out tongue Everything carries on as it has always been. Wait! Is that a flood?

OH NO! This is my 666th post... Surprise

And... it occurs on a Friday 13th... Geeked

Posts 3690
BillS | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 13 2013 11:59 AM

Francis:
How much knowledge do we really carry with us?

Little to none (at least in my case; your mileage may vary). And as it turns out, it's the RELATIONSHIPS (1st with God thru Christ, then in Him with all others) that really matter, anyway. For those, in grace, I don't need to remember much, anyway. Smile

I went thru seminary & language training (carrying Logos 1.6 & 2.0 & its Languages pack with me into every class), but I never INTENDED even to TRY to retain any proficiency in languages BEYOND Right-Click to obtain lexical form, Left-Click on BHS/BAGD. With NASB's Exhaustive Concordance in Logos, I don't even have to remember how to search for all instances of every Greek/Hebrew word translated as ______. Remembering HOW to get to it? I can do & it's kept me in touch with the languages for 10 years (ordained) that I'd have NEVER retained beyond 2-3 years (at most) otherwise.

As far as what I carry with me without Logos? You haven't seen my NIV Study Bible (already with 20,000+ notes) that's covered with all the notes I made thru seminary, sermons, Bible classes, etc., for over 20 years....

I no longer teach formal Bible classes without Logos & a projector. It's just too rich WITH compared to without.

And today, floods are real in Boulder, CO. Relatives of friends are trapped on the 2nd floor of a house awaiting rescue, as I write.

Grace & Peace,
Bill


MSI GF63 8RD, I-7 8850H, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, 2TB HDD, NVIDIA GTX 1050Max
Samsung S9+, 64GB
Fire 10HD 64GB 7th Gen

Posts 3690
BillS | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 13 2013 2:54 PM

Dave Hooton:
It's threads have a low priority so it is interruptable when you want to run a task, otherwise it will consume all CPUs of a double/quad core processor. It was pleasantly easy to run another task on my dual core Atom powered Tablet (full Win 8), but i did find it harder on the desktop i7.

I tried setting the priority of indexing to LOWER THAN NORMAL, but that ONLY helps with the CPU. Unfortunately, I verified in an experiment this morning, that cpu load isn't the main problem. When Indexer gets to the point in its process that it consumes 100% of the disk (it does this for significant lengths of time (minutes, not seconds)-----THAT's when the PC is locked up until it's finished.

Grace & Peace,
Bill


MSI GF63 8RD, I-7 8850H, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, 2TB HDD, NVIDIA GTX 1050Max
Samsung S9+, 64GB
Fire 10HD 64GB 7th Gen

Posts 196
Dan Pogue | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 13 2013 3:47 PM

Hey Bill,

     I was having problems with the indexer some time back.  I am not sure this is the best way or may cause more problems, however, I would open the task manager, click on services, right click Logos indexer and stop that process.  Was then able to continue to use Logos without any problems.  This worked for me, not recommending...just something to consider if you are in that situation again...

Blessings,

danp

Posts 3690
BillS | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 14 2013 10:29 AM

Dan Pogue:

open the task manager, click on services, right click Logos indexer and stop that process. 

Thanks for the suggestion, Dan. If worst comes to worst, I may try that... Pausing it for 4hr (from the system tray) has also worked & may do the same thing, though perhaps not as quickly. 

Since Dave Hooton pointed out that the only remedy for both original issues is avoidance (don't let the big download happen to begin with), my main reason for continuing the thread has been 2-fold. I've been trying to find out if anyone else has found some system or task manager setting that could prevent system lockout (prevent the disk from getting 100% busy---from indexer?). And I've also been hoping we'd capture the attention of a Logos IS type who'd offer hope for a long term cure--or at least say "we've got the problem logged..."

Thanks again, & blessings to you!

Grace & Peace,
Bill


MSI GF63 8RD, I-7 8850H, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, 2TB HDD, NVIDIA GTX 1050Max
Samsung S9+, 64GB
Fire 10HD 64GB 7th Gen

Posts 3763
Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 15 2013 5:44 AM

BillS:
And as it turns out, it's the RELATIONSHIPS (1st with God thru Christ, then in Him with all others) that really matter, anyway.
 

This is still a rabbit trail, but an interesting one and we can relate it to perhaps a greater need to use Logos memorization tool than we might think. I agree with you that the relationship is fundamental but the faith needs content. There are many people out there who have zeal without knowledge and Scripture says it's not a good thing. The point I am making is while we can have lots of knowledge and be dead (without love, we are nothing), I do think that it is important for us -- as the Lord gives us ability to do so individually -- to be able to carry with us knowledge. As Peter says, add to your faith virtue and to virtue, knowledge. This is true not only of what would happen in the case I mentioned above (if we are thrown in prison without resources) but also of unexpected witnessing situations that arise when we may not have a Bible handy.

This, I think applies to other things such as spiritual songs, which we are told we need to sing to one another and be filled in the Spirit and at all times (not just when a hymnal happens to be around or on Sundays). Good thing Paul and Silas remembered a few in the prison in Philippi, it helped them rejoice after a severe beating and in a dire situation and turned out to be a great witnessing tool. I know that as a pastor, you know all this, Bill. I am just spelling out my reasoning rather than assuming you don't.

To summarize, I think we must careful that our enjoyment of electronic resources is such that we don't need to remember much of anything because we assume that it is always there when we need it.

On another topic, I hope that your friends' relatives are safe. 

Blessings.

Posts 3690
BillS | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 15 2013 2:24 PM

Francis:
we must careful that our enjoyment of electronic resources is such that we don't need to remember much of anything because we assume that it is always there when we need it.

At 63yo, I'm learning that it isn't so much DON'T as CAN'T remember much of anything. I'm sure glad this wonderful resource is always with me. A search is just a few clicks away--on my phone, a tablet, or a laptop. Wink

But you make an excellent point... even without the electronics, I'm told that folks really enjoy it when I lead a Bible study (which I do sans electronics every Friday in our small group)... I just always feel like it's so much RICHER when the projector is going & we can all see it. Smile

But as you say (& we so often rediscover on the Sundays that projection doesn't work), it's always about God & His Word, not the tools we use to get there. Smile

 

Blessings!

Grace & Peace,
Bill


MSI GF63 8RD, I-7 8850H, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, 2TB HDD, NVIDIA GTX 1050Max
Samsung S9+, 64GB
Fire 10HD 64GB 7th Gen

Posts 1932
Donnie Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 16 2013 6:33 AM

BillS:
When Indexer gets to the point in its process that it consumes 100% of the disk (it does this for significant lengths of time (minutes, not seconds)-----THAT's when the PC is locked up until it's finished.

To me that sounds like your disk needs some attention. I've got a several thousand book library, and when I was running Logos from a traditional (spinning) disk, indexing never made my system completely unresponsive. Worst case, I might get a quick hiccup in a song if I was playing music from that disk while indexing was in progress. Now that I've got Logos on an SSD, there's no noticeable impact at all.

So... Defragment? Faster disk? SSD? Maybe the "Reindex All" command (whatever the right syntax is in Logos) to rebuild the entire index and get to a better starting point for future indexing?

Donnie

Posts 3690
BillS | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 16 2013 12:58 PM

Hi Donnie,

Just checked... less than 200Mb recovered in disk cleanup, & less than 3% fragmented BEFORE running defrag, which because disk is fast (7200rpm + 32Gb SSD built in). Defrag (which auto-runs + I often run it whenever (as now) its performance is in question. It'll only take a few minutes... While typing this, it's already got Pass One 70% relocated. And, even better, the disk is bouncing around at 100% busy without any adverse impact . The more I experiment, the more I'm convinced that Logos is the culprit. The ONLY time I experience that problem is when Logos is indexing & the disk is at 100%. Oddly, the cores aren't busy at all when the touchpad is locked out. (I am sometimes still able to control the laptop from the keyboard sans touchpad.)

EDIT: 20 minutes after start, 750Gb disk is 0% fragmented. We'll see if that helps.

I'll also try your suggestion to REBUILD INDEX. Smile

It'll hurt when it gets to that point, but today's my day off & I can easily afford the experiment.

Grace & Peace,
Bill


MSI GF63 8RD, I-7 8850H, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, 2TB HDD, NVIDIA GTX 1050Max
Samsung S9+, 64GB
Fire 10HD 64GB 7th Gen

Posts 3690
BillS | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 16 2013 1:26 PM

And I'm starting to wonder if it's related to the problem in this thread:
http://community.logos.com/forums/p/68738/526426.aspx#526426

Grace & Peace,
Bill


MSI GF63 8RD, I-7 8850H, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, 2TB HDD, NVIDIA GTX 1050Max
Samsung S9+, 64GB
Fire 10HD 64GB 7th Gen

Posts 3690
BillS | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 17 2013 7:10 PM

BillS:

And I'm starting to wonder if it's related to the problem in this thread:
http://community.logos.com/forums/p/68738/526426.aspx#526426

Last night, I set "Auto-download updates" to NO per Dave H's counsel. Although I think I'd have been ok downloading the 3.4Mb update (or new Vyrso book, I'm not sure which) that L5 wanted to download, I had no problems getting to the Bible study this morning. Geeked

As an experiment, tonight when I got home (out of town meetings in the afternoon), I downloaded the updates & it's now indexing. But while it indexes, I tried setting Use Internet to "No" while indexing is in progress, to see if system unresponsiveness "at that point" was related to the problem reported in the thread above. As I write, indexing is at 91% and LOOKS like it may complete without locking up my system! If it does (& I'll try to keep writing until it completes), that'll be the 1st time in awhile that I've been able to keep using the system without a lockup (i.e., loss of use of keyboard & touchpad) when Logos hit the point of 100% disk use). And the jury is in: the keyboard DID hesitate a couple of times, but it never locked up tonight. And Logos has completed indexing. YAY!

Hope this helps some other user that's been struggling with i7 system lockup during indexing.

And since there's a Logos response (essentially, "We got it...") in the thread, I'm confident they'll solve it in an upcoming release.

Blessings to all!

Grace & Peace,
Bill


MSI GF63 8RD, I-7 8850H, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, 2TB HDD, NVIDIA GTX 1050Max
Samsung S9+, 64GB
Fire 10HD 64GB 7th Gen

Posts 3690
BillS | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 18 2013 9:58 AM

BillS:

BillS:

And I'm starting to wonder if it's related to the problem in this thread:
http://community.logos.com/forums/p/68738/526426.aspx#526426

Last night, I set "Auto-download updates" to NO per Dave H's counsel. Although I think I'd have been ok downloading the 3.4Mb update (or new Vyrso book, I'm not sure which) that L5 wanted to download, I had no problems getting to the Bible study this morning. Geeked

As an experiment, tonight when I got home (out of town meetings in the afternoon), I downloaded the updates & it's now indexing. But while it indexes, I tried setting Use Internet to "No" while indexing is in progress, to see if system unresponsiveness "at that point" was related to the problem reported in the thread above. As I write, indexing is at 91% and LOOKS like it may complete without locking up my system! If it does (& I'll try to keep writing until it completes), that'll be the 1st time in awhile that I've been able to keep using the system without a lockup (i.e., loss of use of keyboard & touchpad) when Logos hit the point of 100% disk use). And the jury is in: the keyboard DID hesitate a couple of times, but it never locked up tonight. And Logos has completed indexing. YAY!

Hope this helps some other user that's been struggling with i7 system lockup during indexing.

And since there's a Logos response (essentially, "We got it...") in the thread, I'm confident they'll solve it in an upcoming release.

Blessings to all!

One last post until the issue Logos is working on is actually fixed: this morning, I experienced a complete system lockup with Logos open to a blank screen only. After waiting for 10 minutes for the system to become responsive, I ended up shutting it off (abnormal termination of everything) which I HATE to do. (Who knows what got corrupted?)

Other windows open? Facebook, Outlook, & Windows Media Player (playing songs from disk, not streaming). I've never had a lockup that bad before when L5 wasn't open. So as was suggested in the other thread, I'm going to leave L5 set NOT to use the internet unless I'm actually expecting a download. Can't wait for a fix.

Grace & Peace,
Bill


MSI GF63 8RD, I-7 8850H, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, 2TB HDD, NVIDIA GTX 1050Max
Samsung S9+, 64GB
Fire 10HD 64GB 7th Gen

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