Logos 6 Best Feature: NO INDEXING !!!!!!!!!!

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 7 2013 2:02 PM

William Gabriel:
do other CEOs get on their product forums and post?

I do appreciate Bob, Dan, and Dale taking the time to engage us users, but they are not alone. The powers that be at Accordance also interact with users on their forums.

Posts 178
Paul Chatfield | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 7 2013 11:03 PM

Would one quick step practically to this be for us to be able to see what updates are proposed before downloading them?  For example, a lot of the updates I'd be happy to wait for but I don't know what they are before downloading them.  

An alternative to this might be for Logos to give each person a set day in the week and restrict downloads to that day alone (vary the day per person so the Logos servers aren't overloaded).

Posts 3706
Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 8 2013 6:27 AM

I agree with Paul's suggestion -- which has been made before but gone unheeded -- to show users what will be downloaded first. I like the WS format: you get a pop-up that tells you that update a, b and c are available to download. You have checkboxes you can use to select or unselect and you can click download now or later.

Posts 3706
Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 8 2013 6:37 AM

Say, I just had a download and I told myself I'd postpone indexing. But now I am waiting for "preparing my library". What is being done at this point in contrast to indexing AND why does it also take so long???

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 8 2013 7:19 AM

Francis:
"preparing my library"

The "Preparing Your Library" stage is:

  • Stage 1: 'Discovering' the newly downloaded resources which means
    • Checking the licences are valid
    • Moving them into the resource folder
    • Updating the lists of the various databases of special resource types
  • Stage 2: Extracting the metadata and adding the resource to the library catalog
  • Stage 3: Configuring keylinking, which means:
    • Finding out which datatypes are supported by each resource
    • Figuring out where each datatype/resource fits in the prioritisation list

Stage 2 generally takes the longest. On a fast machine, it's about 1s per resource, which isn't too shabby when you realise how much data is being added to the catalog. But you only need a few hundred resources for that to take 3-4 minutes - and that's on a fast machine.

Posts 1691
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Bob Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 8 2013 8:11 AM

Paul Chatfield:
Would one quick step practically to this be for us to be able to see what updates are proposed before downloading them?

Back in the Libronix day we showed every single component and a large list of check-boxes -- you could download exactly what you want.

It was a nightmare. Of course no user (and most of our team!) never really understood all the inter-dependencies and connections between components, and days / weeks / months later we'd have support calls about all kinds of unexpected behavior that came down to having rejected something 'it didn't seem like I needed' long before.

We do let you choose when to download, but letting you choose what to download would quickly lead to pain for all of us.... The one exception might be 'which books' to download, which we could possibly control through the same UI we use on the web to manage what's downloaded to mobile devices, though it's missing some of the batch processing interfaces on the web that we presently offer via the Library menu in the software.

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 8 2013 8:17 AM

Bob Pritchett:

Paul Chatfield:
Would one quick step practically to this be for us to be able to see what updates are proposed before downloading them?

Back in the Libronix day we showed every single component and a large list of check-boxes -- you could download exactly what you want.

I don't think Paul was asking to choose which resources would download (though others have requested that). He was asking to see which resources would download, so that he could make an informed decision as to whether he delayed the download and indexing to a later time (which he might do if the resource was an obscure one that he rarely used).

Posts 232
AndyTheGreek | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 9 2013 1:20 AM

Bob Pritchett:
We do let you choose when to download, but letting you choose what to download would quickly lead to pain for all of us.... The one exception might be 'which books' to download

I would like that. It seems redundant to, after having upgraded your base package, to have to download all the books and then hide the ones you know you don't want. That might also be true with collections...

Andy

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 9 2013 4:51 AM

AndyTheGreek:
That might also be true with collections...

What do you mean? Collections are documents which you can create and delete - sync or not sync - as you choose. They only list resources according to a rule or because you explicitly included them.

Dave
===

Windows 10 & Android 8

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 9 2013 5:55 AM

Dave Hooton:

AndyTheGreek:
That might also be true with collections...

What do you mean? Collections are documents which you can create and delete - sync or not sync - as you choose. They only list resources according to a rule or because you explicitly included them.

The word 'collections' is also used in the sense of 'Classic Commentary Collection'. I think Andy is saying that if he bought a large collection, he might want to hide part of that collection, and it would make sense to do that before downloading it, not afterwards.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 9 2013 2:54 PM

Mark Barnes:
The word 'collections' is also used in the sense of 'Classic Commentary Collection'.

Ahh, yes!

Sorry Andy, must have had a literal mind set last night.

Dave
===

Windows 10 & Android 8

Posts 2879
Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 10 2013 8:58 AM

Mark Barnes:
The word 'collections' is also used in the sense of 'Classic Commentary Collection'.

It might be easier if we all refer to those things as 'bundles' rather than 'collections.' But good luck with that, right?

As long as Logos continues to sell so many new works in bundles (good or bad), this will be an issue to some users. I don't know an easy way around it for either the company or the user.

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 10 2013 9:11 AM

Doc B:
It might be easier if we all refer to those things as 'bundles' rather than 'collections.' But good luck with that, right?

Logos do use that vocabulary sometimes, but I don't know what the difference between a bundle and a collection is.

Posts 2879
Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 10 2013 9:24 AM

Mark Barnes:
I don't know what the difference between a bundle and a collection is.

In my head, a 'bundle' is a group of related resources for sale together.

A 'collection' is a group of resources in the software that are defined by a user-created rule that can be accessed by the Library, Guides, etc.

FWIW. (Not much, probably.)

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

Posts 2446
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 10 2013 3:57 PM

Question or do I correctly understand:

If we did not index right after a download, as I understand it, a search would act just like it would have before the download - that is it would not search the book that just downloaded.  

I have no clue what would happen if you opened the book, without indexing, and tried to search the open book. [A message that I need to index first is OK]

What if indexing asked before it started: 'is now a good time to index?'

What if we were given the option of downloading by day and time [now only by time] 

What if we were given the option of setting when the system could index independent of when it downloaded?  [Yes, want that book at Church today but index tonight after all services]  

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 10 2013 4:17 PM

David Ames:
If we did not index right after a download, as I understand it, a search would act just like it would have before the download - that is it would not search the book that just downloaded.  

If you download, but do not restart Logos, then:

  • For new books - you would not see the book in your library or search results.
  • For updated books - you'd get the old version in your library or search results.

If you download, restart, then pause indexing, then:

  • For new books - you'd see the book in your library, but get zero results for it when searching.
  • For updated books - you'd get the new book in your library, but results from the older version in your search results. Search highlighting might be incorrect until the indexing finishes.

With the combination of scheduling or turning off automatic downloads, and with total control over whether you restart Logos or not, and with the option of pausing indexing as much as you want, you've got pretty much total control over when indexing happens.

Posts 2446
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 10 2013 4:52 PM

Mark Barnes:

If you download, restart, then pause indexing, then:

Some have said that if you pause indexing the memory used by indexing is still reserved for indexing

I assume that if you did not start indexing that memory would sill be free.

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 10 2013 5:10 PM

David Ames:
Some have said that if you pause indexing the memory used by indexing is still reserved for indexing

That misunderstands how operating systems allocate memory. It doesn't really matter that the memory used by the indexer is 'in use'. The OS will just swap that out to the hard drive when it becomes short of memory, so when the indexer is paused it won't reduce the memory available to other applications.

Posts 1844
mike | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 10 2013 5:49 PM

Bob Pritchett:

mike:
this constant indexing really cripple my computer and my life

Mike, just curious... are you on Windows or a Mac?

Windows sir.

Would it be possible for the user to choose whether he/she wants to index in the cloud like what we do with Android app OR index with our own computer?

My second question, it is really stupid really .. but is it possible to make the indexing less painful for the laptop and maybe more optimized for lesser time. I know not everyone here has "good" laptop to run Logos. why ? ...

consider this, I have many missionary pastor friends who I'd love to introduce to Logos, but their laptop normally aren't up to date like the average Joe American pastors who makes $3000 or more per month. (I'm not asking pity for missionary pastors, God has equipped them well in different ways as well) .. if you been working in real missionary world more than 3 years consecutively, I'm sure you know well what I'm talking about by living for Christ daily.

Also, some of us aren't always attached to our computer everyday where we can manage our downloads, some have 2, 3, 4 children and loads of ministries plus prayer life .. Logos is and can become the vital part of everyday life, if only the indexing can be made easier for some us who aren't so fortunate with mid-high specs laptop or extra time to wait for the indexing.

Again, thank you for those guys who works on the background to make indexing less painful.. we're waiting Zip it!

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 11 2013 4:23 AM

mike:
Also, some of us aren't always attached to our computer everyday where we can manage our downloads,

The download options in Tools >> Program Settings allow you to schedule a time OR set Automatically Download Updates to NO and you will receive a notification when downloads are available. You can refuse the download or accept it! If you want to receive a software update but not resource updates then use the weblink.

mike:
is it possible to make the indexing less painful for the laptop and maybe more optimized for lesser time.

Less painful usually means more time i.e. using less of the CPU. Further optimization is probably not going to give significant gains. It would be more realistic to have an option that manages CPU utilization & priority but remember that you can pause indexing for up to 4 hours if you want to do other work.

Dave
===

Windows 10 & Android 8

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