Logos 6 Best Feature: NO INDEXING !!!!!!!!!!

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 11 2013 6:44 AM

Swapping out memory should be the rule (Windows).  But at least on my system (W7/64), whenever Logos holds on to too many gigs, I know it from the other programs slowing down (Logos cpu at 0).

That said, after all the whining a while back (by me!) on Logos not giving up memory for several months, I notice my RAM usage has stablized out, back the way it used to be.

Clearly my PC got the word and whipped Logos into shape! (or something else happened to fix it).


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George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 11 2013 8:38 AM

Denise:

Swapping out memory should be the rule (Windows).  But at least on my system (W7/64), whenever Logos holds on to too many gigs, I know it from the other programs slowing down (Logos cpu at 0).

That said, after all the whining a while back (by me!) on Logos not giving up memory for several months, I notice my RAM usage has stablized out, back the way it used to be.

Clearly my PC got the word and whipped Logos into shape! (or something else happened to fix it).

Perhaps you finally twitched your nose the right way.  Wink

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 359
Batman | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 11 2013 10:22 PM

@Bob Pritchett

Admittedly, I have been a huge source of grief to you, on more than one occasion. While I believe I was right in my positions, once again, I see how wrong I was. 

While I have an ancient laptop (its nearing 3 years, come January), my small library of 1150 resources apparently is not as big a problem as others. I did appreciate the technical lessons, because for me, it does explain what all goes into what we are getting for our money. As has been said many times, we are getting a research assistant. Seeing these two other complaints you have dealt with, really makes me appreciate what exactly Logos is and does. And while I have been quick to criticize, in just a short time, I can't even imagine all the criticisms you deal with, on a weekly and even daily basis. And to come back to even respond to us, and to explain technical details, so even someone like me can almost grasp it, is awesome. 
While I hope we don't see Logos 6 for a long time, I am becoming more of a fan of Logos more and more. Maybe it would be beneficial for each of us to come and see just what every one does there. (Instead of a Disneyland trip, lets all make it a Logos trip. Heh). 

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 12 2013 4:54 AM

Batman:
And while I have been quick to criticize, in just a short time, I can't even imagine all the criticisms you deal with, on a weekly and even daily basis. And to come back to even respond to us, and to explain technical details, so even someone like me can almost grasp it, is awesome. 
While I hope we don't see Logos 6 for a long time, I am becoming more of a fan of Logos more and more.

Well said Batman!

Batman:
Maybe it would be beneficial for each of us to come and see just what every one does there. (Instead of a Disneyland trip, lets all make it a Logos trip. Heh). 

Yes, and I think I'd like it better than Disneyland!

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

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Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 12 2013 4:56 AM

Send me a ticket Batman, I can always sleep on the Couch at Logos Headquarters.

Everything ever written in Religion and Theology formatted for Logos Bible Software.Logos Youtube Channel

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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 12 2013 8:10 AM

Batman:
Maybe it would be beneficial for each of us to come and see just what every one does there.

Actually, for anyone within driving distance of Bellingham, I've organized a visit for 4 or 5 of us on Wed (Oct.16) at 8am. If you want to join us, email me: rderuiter that certain symbol wavecable ending with the first part of the word "comfort."

This will be me fourth visit to Logos HQ, the first when they were still in Oak Harbor. It's really an amazing place.

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

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George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 12 2013 8:24 AM

Richard DeRuiter:
This will be me fourth visit to Logos HQ, the first when they were still in Oak Harbor. It's really an amazing place.

Is this international "Talk Like a Pirate Day"?  Wink  Big Smile

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 12 2013 11:45 AM

George Somsel:

Richard DeRuiter:
This will be me fourth visit to Logos HQ, the first when they were still in Oak Harbor. It's really an amazing place.

Is this international "Talk Like a Pirate Day"?  Wink  Big Smile

No. It's improper use of personal pronouns day. Don't your know that?

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 12 2013 1:42 PM

Richard DeRuiter:

George Somsel:

Richard DeRuiter:
This will be me fourth visit to Logos HQ, the first when they were still in Oak Harbor. It's really an amazing place.

Is this international "Talk Like a Pirate Day"?  Wink  Big Smile

No. It's improper use of personal pronouns day. Don't your know that?

Did not realize that "me" was impersonal Confused Thanks for the enlightenment.

Posts 95
Jack Nørdam | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 15 2013 12:10 AM

Batman:

 (Instead of a Disneyland trip, lets all make it a Logos trip. Heh). 

Why do I live in Denmark? Instead of trips to Disneyland and even better "Logos-land", I have to settle with Legoland Crying

Seriously - I love Logos 5, and indexing is NOT a problem!!

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George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 15 2013 4:59 AM

Jack Nørdam:

Batman:

 (Instead of a Disneyland trip, lets all make it a Logos trip. Heh). 

Why do I live in Denmark? Instead of trips to Disneyland and even better "Logos-land", I have to settle with Legoland Crying

Seriously - I love Logos 5, and indexing is NOT a problem!!

I would suppose that you might go to the Tivoli Gardens.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 285
Luigi Sam | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 15 2013 5:04 AM

Doc B:

As I've said before, indexing is a pain, but I understand why it is necessary.  I'd MUCH rather be bothered with indexing after a download than with slow searches. And as Bob implied, having something like a Google search result is untenable. "We found your restaurant. It's on Earth." Start computing permutation formulae with a thirty-six thousand in there, and you'll need a mainframe computer to not choke on the numbers.

As for anyone for whom slow indexing becomes inconvenient, I sympathize. My computer is pretty much useless for that half-hour too. But as for anyone for whom slow indexing 'cripples my life', well, you really ought to find something else to do with your time.

O(1)\,

thats how much generating the next prime number takes.   but no one wants to know, not even that american site that previously offered a prize for prime numbers (they didn't reply back).

my point: well offer a scenario, and a prize (and respond!).

secondly: offer a prize for a solution for sqlite indexing method that doesn't crash as often as is reported?   (ie reduced by n %)

my points point: what if someone else had answers, but you didn't ask (or offer something so that others can make a living too?)

my intention: nothing related to disrespect to Logos. merely saying that I bet there are plenty of people who are Christians who would entertain challenges related to things like this that could be set as a fun / challenge rather than doom, gloom, cant, and if i cant then it cant be.  I dont really care about a O(1)\, prime number algo, I have no real use for it. but I know that others covet better than what they have with * dollars - and wont even bother replying!

in good faith,

L

Posts 1367
JimTowler | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 16 2013 7:30 AM

Some users are reporting here that indexing is not an issue for them. Good! But for some of us its a real pain and a massive weakness with the design of how the product works. I have been buying a number of "cheaper" titles in community pricing and its common to get one or two titles each week, for maybe $10 or $20 if I'm lucky. An expensive week can run a little more :-( Anyway, the result is I'm sick of the slow startup phase 123 etc stuff, rather than being able to get into the core program, or maybe the last book in 30-60 seconds. At least I can pause the idexing, but its the prep stages before that that drive me crazy. Yes, the indexing is slow and can take hours it seems at times, but its the startup thats killing the fun for me!!!

(Main pc is a laptop with Windows Vista and 4gb ram, so its not the fastest any more, but I've got a few thousand titles now, so indexing becomes a big deal. No matter what Logos staff continue to say, I believe. good design could have allowed us to be selective in what and when we download, and keep program and books and two different things. Unix "make" and the likes have been around for tens of years and can work out whT depends on what - its really not rocket science to design and add some metadata in so the application can determine that if you update A you need a new B too, and an extra C.)

Posts 407
Ray from Faithlife | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 16 2013 8:13 AM

Batman:
Maybe it would be beneficial for each of us to come and see just what every one does there. (Instead of a Disneyland trip, lets all make it a Logos trip. Heh). 

You're absolutely invited. I'll give you the tour myself. 

The best time to visit is during National Camp Logos held usually in June (It was June 26-28 this year, and isn't on the calendar yet for 2014.) You can spend 3 days mastering Logos, tour the offices, and network with other users. It's a great time.

RD3

Logos Marketing | ray.deck@logos.com

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 16 2013 8:44 AM

JimT:

Some users are reporting here that indexing is not an issue for them. Good! But for some of us its a real pain and a massive weakness with the design of how the product works. I have been buying a number of "cheaper" titles in community pricing and its common to get one or two titles each week, for maybe $10 or $20 if I'm lucky. An expensive week can run a little more :-( Anyway, the result is I'm sick of the slow startup phase 123 etc stuff, rather than being able to get into the core program, or maybe the last book in 30-60 seconds. At least I can pause the idexing, but its the prep stages before that that drive me crazy. Yes, the indexing is slow and can take hours it seems at times, but its the startup thats killing the fun for me!!!

(Main pc is a laptop with Windows Vista and 4gb ram, so its not the fastest any more, but I've got a few thousand titles now, so indexing becomes a big deal. No matter what Logos staff continue to say, I believe. good design could have allowed us to be selective in what and when we download, and keep program and books and two different things. Unix "make" and the likes have been around for tens of years and can work out whT depends on what - its really not rocket science to design and add some metadata in so the application can determine that if you update A you need a new B too, and an extra C.)

I've asked this before and no one has chosen to answer:  How much free space do you have on your hard drive.  If your HD is stuffed, it will not be able to perform the necessary changes as rapidly as if there were plenty of space to allow the program to move things around.  If you don't have sufficient space on your HD, I suggest you get a larger one so that there is space.  Usually indexing is not a problem so I can only suppose that you have limited room.  If that is the case, I would say:  Don't gripe if you choose to not get a larger HD unless you truly can't afford one (the price has dropped considerably from the old days—you can get a 1 T internal HD at Best Buy for $75).  If you truly can't afford a larger HD, you'll simply need to suffer—sorry.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 16 2013 8:46 AM

Rebuilding the index, also helps speed up indexing individual book or books.

Everything ever written in Religion and Theology formatted for Logos Bible Software.Logos Youtube Channel

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JimTowler | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 25 2013 7:37 PM
George, My PC I wrote about a few posts ago (Windows Vista, 32 bit, 4 gb) typically has about 10-15 GB free on each of C: and D: and I always attempted to keep 10% or so free if possible as I know NTFS performance degrades as it has to work harder to find free working space. Anyway, my solution is a new Toshiba. Its got an i7-4700MQ Intel Haswell chip with 8 cores. So far its taken many hours before I could even get the application to start to the point where I could ask it to scan an external drive to "download" the resources I saved from the Vista laptop. Its been running and indexing for about 12 or 14 hours so far and is currently at 69%. My simple answer is that the current design of Logos 5 is BROKEN and defective for large resource libraries. I would have liked to have been able to install and start the application within 15 minutes or so, and be told it needed to download core modules based on my resource collection. This might have taken an hour or so longer, and then it would have informed me it needed to scan or download resources, but offer to let me have my fav bible or other selected titles downloaded and usable within that first hour or so. Then it could index and do what it likes over time, with only searches being impacted. I've said it many times over the last few years but Bob gets to make the rules and disagrees. I'm the customer: My view is the product is very weak for large libraries. (So there is a stake in the ground for "large", I'm talking of 10,000 resource files for 32 GB of source. This is not including index files - just books and whatever is in the resource subdirectory.)
Posts 232
Genghis | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 25 2013 8:26 PM
No, that would be unacceptable. Searching is one of my most frequent activities. It would be a pain if I needed an Internet connection every time I mantis to do search. One can delay indexing if the computer is being slowed too much.
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Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 25 2013 8:52 PM

JimT:
So far its taken many hours before I could even get the application to start to the point where I could ask it to scan an external drive to "download" the resources I saved from the Vista laptop. Its been running and indexing for about 12 or 14 hours so far and is currently at 69%. My simple answer is that the current design of Logos 5 is BROKEN and defective for large resource libraries. I would have liked to have been able to install and start the application within 15 minutes or so, and be told it needed to download core modules based on my resource collection. This might have taken an hour or so longer, and then it would have informed me it needed to scan or download resources, but offer to let me have my fav bible or other selected titles downloaded and usable within that first hour or so. Then it could index and do what it likes over time, with only searches being impacted. I've said it many times over the last few years but Bob gets to make the rules and disagrees. I'm the customer: My view is the product is very weak for large libraries. (So there is a stake in the ground for "large", I'm talking of 10,000 resource files for 32 GB of source. This is not including index files - just books and whatever is in the resource subdirectory.)

For goodness' sake, can't anybody at Logos get on the case and reach out to these users? There's a pattern, it's not isolated, something could be broken, and it's in the interests of the company to get this usability issue resolved.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 26 2013 3:48 AM

JimT:
So far its taken many hours before I could even get the application to start to the point where I could ask it to scan an external drive to "download" the resources I saved from the Vista laptop.

I'm puzzled by this. I presume it was a custom installation similar to Method 3 because you didn't want resources downloaded, so you should have access to Logos within 15 minutes even if you have a lot of documents to sync over i.e. you could tell the sync window to start the app and sync would continue in the background. Otherwise, a normal install, download & Preparation would have taken taken some hours.

JimT:
I would have liked to have been able to install and start the application within 15 minutes or so, and be told it needed to download core modules based on my resource collection. This might have taken an hour or so longer, and then it would have informed me it needed to scan or download resources, but offer to let me have my fav bible or other selected titles downloaded and usable within that first hour or so.

What are Core modules?  In a normal installation a download is the only option although Logos will scan for Libronix resources if installed on the computer. It would be easy to have Logos scan for any resources on the computer but they still might need to be updated via download.

JimT:
My view is the product is very weak for large libraries.

It's interesting that we realised 6+ years ago that Libronix was weak for 'large' libraries (over 1000 or so). But there is a case that Logos is weak for libraries over 5000 or so mainly because of Preparation & Indexing. I have proposed that the Bible Index be removed as this causes bibles and morphological resources to be indexed twice; perhaps affecting several hundred resources i.e. can't do much about downloading but there are weaknesses in Preparation and Indexing.  With a first-time installation it would make sense to have access to nominated resources before downloading the rest of the resources.

Dave
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