Place all your Verbum-specific suggestions here! (or, How to Rebrand Logos for Catholics!)

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Ken McGuire | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 29 2013 2:28 PM

MJ. Smith:

Benjamin Baxter:
Catholics use theology as spiritual reading. Just the other day I was exhorted to read works of theology rather than apologetics, and to read them with docility and openness to the Spirit, if not uncritically.

I've never hear a priest, nun or theological professor give such odd advice. Reading theology yes - uncritically? never. Yes, there are authors that one can read with more confidence than others but your wording leads to misunderstandings such as

I think you may have misread Mr. Baxter - at least I read him differently.  I did not think his statement "if not uncritically" was saying he was reading it uncritically - but rather that there something to reading beyond just a critical, academic reading of theology.  It is engaging to read Augustine, even if you are quite skeptical about his neoplatonism, for example.  In fact, in reading a great many of the fathers (and the too few mothers who have left literary remains) is like this.  You may not always agree in everything, but your recognize them as family - and can learn from them.  And at times it is spiritually useful to let it flow instead of getting out the fallacy hound... :) Often I have found more there when I let this happen - and my thinking I think grows in the process.

MJ. Smith:
Lutheran (ELCA)

We LCMS can be a bit prickly to outsiders - sometimes quite unfortunately.  But there is good stuff from us too...

The Gospel is not ... a "new law," on the contrary, ... a "new life." - William Julius Mann

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 29 2013 2:47 PM

Ken McGuire:
I think you may have misread Mr. Baxter - at least I read him differently.  I did not think his statement "if not uncritically" was saying he was reading it uncritically - but rather that there something to reading beyond just a critical, academic reading of theology

You may well be right - it makes more sense.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 29 2013 3:05 PM

MJ. Smith:
Now, I know ST knows better - he's just having fun.

You got me. Stick out tongue

I just don't understand why anyone would want to limit their library. It is my understanding the Vatican has an extremely expansive library.

I also find it unimaginable that someone would embark on a study without a critical look at the author's background. Whether I am reading Cardinal John Henry Newman, Gail A. Riplinger, Dr. John F. MacArthur, or Walter Veith, I am keenly aware of the author's position. It is the only prudent way to research the subject at hand. For that matter, I double check what my pastor says from the pulpit to see if it "jives" with scripture.

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 29 2013 3:16 PM

Ken McGuire:
I did not think his statement "if not uncritically" was saying he was reading it uncritically - but rather that there something to reading beyond just a critical, academic reading of theology. 

I agree. That is why I buy things like The Catholic Spirituality Collection and The Thomas Merton Collection. It is what first intrigued me about Erasmus.

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 41
Benjamin Baxter | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 29 2013 10:26 PM

MJ: I had this in mind, from This Tremendous Lover, p. 114, regarding the discipline of spiritual reading:

We must, of course, read in a spirit of faith. That does not mean we are not to read critically, or that we have to accept every statement that every writer makes, or to believe that every advice or direction given applies to our own particular case. On the contrary, one should only follow such advice with caution and prudence, taking frequent counsel of some wise priest or other guide. But we must believe that God will speak to us in our reading, and when He does speak, we must be ready to listen to Him and heed His words. In fact, if one asks in what dispositions should one read, the answer is: "with faith, hope, charity, humility, and submission to God's will."
 

Emphases added. This allows for critical reading in a sense, but it is a different sort of critical lens than is used while reading the Institutes

This book goes on to describe two types of spiritual reading: One for "expositions of doctrine, rather than apologetical arguments." The other regards meditation and mental prayer. In neither case are non-Catholic works appropriate. 

Again, all I mean at this point is that non-Catholic works, where included on Catholic software, should be somehow visibly delineated. 

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 29 2013 10:31 PM

Benjamin Baxter:
Again, all I mean at this point is that non-Catholic works, where included on Catholic software, should be somehow visibly delineated. 

Yes, if you want a guided discovery instead of free inquiry. 

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 41
Benjamin Baxter | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 29 2013 10:48 PM

More suggestions, some along the lines of MJ Smith's ideas earlier in the thread or as mentioned in other threads:

Standard content: 

  • Monthly intentions of the Holy Father displayed in home feed. 
  • Particular rites should also be included.
  • NAB/local English translation and all three Roman missals should be standard, and for liturgical use the appropriate translation of scripture should be a "forced" default. 

Features: 

  • Export selected hours to .epub, &c. 
  • Generally, Universalis-like features for the Liturgy of the Hours.
  • Daily Missals for Extraordinary and Ordinary forms fully integrated.

Really, daily liturgical readings should be more than a blip in of a sidebar. Antiphons, collects, readings, &c. should all appear in the main feed on the home page.

Sources: 

  • This Tremendous Lover
  • Humility of Heart
  • Knox translation of the Vulgate (I know I keep saying this, and it's for a reason.) 
  • Apologetics along these lines, especially Thomas More and Hilaire Belloc. 

Liturgical collection: Various works by

  • Lazlo Dobszay,
  • Adrian Fortescue,
  • Alcuin Reid,
  • Klaus Gamber, 
  • Annibale Bugnini,
  • Josef Jungmann,
  • Dom Gregory Dix,
  • Fr. Aidan Nichols,
  • Romano Guardini
  • Dom Prosper Guéranger
  • Also: The Banished Heart,
  • Why Catholics Can't Sing,
  • Spirit of the Liturgy (the original and not just the one by Ratzinger)
  • The Musical Shape of the Liturgy by Dr. William Mahrt
Posts 41
Benjamin Baxter | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 29 2013 10:49 PM

Super.Tramp:
Yes, if you want a guided discovery instead of free inquiry. 

Free inquiry: You get what you pay for. Stick out tongue

Posts 41
Benjamin Baxter | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 29 2013 10:57 PM

Other essential Catholic authors for Verbum, most of them obvious: 

  • Frank Sheed, esp. Theology and Sanity
  • Fulton Sheen
  • Peter Kreeft
  • Frank Chacon's series of apologetics books
  • Louis Bouyer, esp. The Spirit and Forms of Protestantism
  • Fr. Robert Barron, esp. Catholicism
  • Fr. Reginald Garrigou-Lagrange, esp. Predestination
  • Ed Feser, esp. Aquinas: A Beginner's Guide
  • Hans Urs von Balthasar
  • Dietrich von Hildebrand
  • &c. 
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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 29 2013 11:52 PM

Benjamin Baxter:

MJ: I had this in mind, from This Tremendous Lover, p. 114, regarding the discipline of spiritual reading:

We must, of course, read in a spirit of faith. That does not mean we are not to read critically, or that we have to accept every statement that every writer makes, or to believe that every advice or direction given applies to our own particular case. On the contrary, one should only follow such advice with caution and prudence, taking frequent counsel of some wise priest or other guide. But we must believe that God will speak to us in our reading, and when He does speak, we must be ready to listen to Him and heed His words. In fact, if one asks in what dispositions should one read, the answer is: "with faith, hope, charity, humility, and submission to God's will."
 

This I strongly agree with; it is not what I had read you to mean. However, I would not consider this advice to be particular to Catholics nor would I expect the spiritual reading approached in this manner to be exclusively Catholic. At least that is not my experience in spiritual direction - individual or communal. But understanding what you intended, your suggestion is understandable - although not a feature I'd use much.

Some recent authors I'd add to your list:

  • Hugo Rahner
  • Karl Rahner
  • Simon Tugwell
  • Timothy Radcliffe
  • Tielhard de Chardin
  • Josef Pieper
  • Karl Adams
  • George Mahoney (Catholic who converted to Orthodox)
  • Jaroslav Pelikan (Lutheran who converted to Orthodox)
  • Robert C. Bondi (non-Catholic)
  • Alexander Schmemann (Orthodox)
  • Leonardo Boff
  • Louis Bouyer (edit: I see this on your list - oops)
  • Dag Hammarskjöld (non-Catholic)
  • Timothy Ware (Orthodox)
  • John Meyendorff (Orthodox)
  • Evelyn Underhill (Anglo-Catholic)
  • Dom Aelred Graham
  • William Johnston
  • Cynthia Bourgeault
  • Abraham Joshua Heschel (Jewish)
  • Gordon W. Lathrop (Lutheran)

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 41
Benjamin Baxter | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 30 2013 12:16 AM

Your comments are fair. I'm sorry I've taken so long to make it clear. Oy ... 

Posts 3
Michael Roesch | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 24 2013 7:25 PM

I agree with the musical suggestions wholeheartedly! At least add the Missal's entrance and Communion antiphons to the Lectionary.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 24 2013 9:06 PM

Michael Roesch:
At least add the Missal's entrance and Communion antiphons to the Lectionary.

They were in the original file provided to Logos. It was a conscious decision on their part to move them to the Missal where they actually belong. What would work providing for both approaches is to have the Missal also appear by date. I'll do a little experimenting before making a more formal suggestion.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 285
Luigi Sam | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 25 2013 4:54 AM

Benjamin Baxter:
 The Catholic faith enjoys the greatest art there ever was and ever will be.

Hi Ben,

I have thoughts,

I hope that I can share them usefully, and respectfully.

(1) it seem evident that Catholics and Protestants have a big definition gap between the term catholic. - and while this seems irrelivant now, please keep this in mind - as it is one of the most significant things I have learned while participating in good will on this forum.

(2) my immediate thought regarding the quote of yours above is along the lines of: alot of people are really uncomfortable with images of God, and Christ. additionally I cannot think of a church I would be comfortable with a image of Mary being portrayed as anything above what is written in the bible.

(3) related to (2), and I hope it might help rather than cause issues that no one needs to debate: alot of people feel uncomfortable with the differences between the 10 commandments differences between Jewish, Catholic, and Protestants.

This is my thoughts regarding 'art'. Otherwise there are many people who regard art as many things. Personally, I am uncomfortable with images of God, and Jesus, and any images that people might be drawn to pray under.

written with good intentions.

Luigi.

Posts 285
Luigi Sam | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 25 2013 5:14 AM

Super.Tramp:

I just don't understand why anyone would want to limit their library. It is my understanding the Vatican has an extremely expansive library.

I also find it unimaginable that someone would embark on a study without a critical look at the author's background. Whether I am reading Cardinal John Henry Newman, Gail A. Riplinger, Dr. John F. MacArthur, or Walter Veith, I am keenly aware of the author's position. It is the only prudent way to research the subject at hand. For that matter, I double check what my pastor says from the pulpit to see if it "jives" with scripture.

+1

(Not sure if there is a +1 button - I couldn't see it anywhere)

There is a difference between unreasonable positions, and the reasonable differences between Catholics and Protestant positions.

It is unfortunate that categorisation needs can't be precise, but it is more unfortunate that reasonable differences might not be considered - due to the way the church and state history has occured as taught, and lived by both sides.

for the sake of wisdom - differentiating ourselves does not show our reasonableness - Is it not written: that those of understanding took oaths?

how then can we as Christians say we are of an age of understanding to differentiate ourselves unless we both agree and disagree - untill such things can be understood personally?

respectfully

Luigi.

Posts 285
Luigi Sam | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 25 2013 5:19 AM

well:

having thought a good few moments about it, and having something useful to say:

I suggest that all products of Logos be purchased, but locked untill earned through the following method:

(1) read Genesis: once read by daily reading schedule checkbox tick offs, then n % of your purchased library is unlocked.

This is a learn and earn method. :)

if I were rich.. maybe I would think about giving free logos portfolios to people in this basis.

Posts 3
Michael Roesch | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 7 2013 6:24 PM

A big one for me would be to have a very quick turnaround time on encyclicals and other major papal/ecclesial documents. I would love to be able to read an encyclical and take notes on it in Verbum within a week or two of its release (at present, I do so on the Vatican website using Diigo). As it stands, Lumen Fidei is still not available, while everyone has moved on already to discussing the recent apostolic exhortation. I understand if there are rights issues, but it's something I would definitely shell out money for. Actually, I'd even consider paying a small subscription fee to have major Vatican documents quickly and automatically downloaded to Verbum, because I actually use them in my work.

Frankly, getting a new encyclical out into the hands of the faithful is so important that I'd stop work on other Catholic projects in order to get them ready.

Posts 2829
Don Awalt | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 8 2013 6:21 AM

Michael Roesch:

A big one for me would be to have a very quick turnaround time on encyclicals and other major papal/ecclesial documents. I would love to be able to read an encyclical and take notes on it in Verbum within a week or two of its release (at present, I do so on the Vatican website using Diigo). As it stands, Lumen Fidei is still not available, while everyone has moved on already to discussing the recent apostolic exhortation. I understand if there are rights issues, but it's something I would definitely shell out money for. Actually, I'd even consider paying a small subscription fee to have major Vatican documents quickly and automatically downloaded to Verbum, because I actually use them in my work.

Frankly, getting a new encyclical out into the hands of the faithful is so important that I'd stop work on other Catholic projects in order to get them ready.

I would be interested in the subscription fee for encyclicals and Papal documents as well if it meant getting them quickly. Another idea would be to issue it very quickly, with minimal tagging, then update it aa few weeks later - like first rev is the text, Bible reference links, and maybe subsequent links come a few weeks later (or anything that slows the process down - Logos is good at updating documents over time). Speed on these resources is very desirable.

Posts 8893
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 8 2013 6:46 AM

Michael Roesch:
I would love to be able to read an encyclical and take notes on it in Verbum within a week or two of its release

You can make a Personal Book out of it as soon as the text is on the web. I imagine there are quite a few users here who have done so. Unfortunately, for copyright reasons, they can't share. At least not publicly.

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 670
Sleiman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 15 2013 6:46 AM

Michael Roesch:

A big one for me would be to have a very quick turnaround time on encyclicals and other major papal/ecclesial documents. I would love to be able to read an encyclical and take notes on it in Verbum within a week or two of its release (at present, I do so on the Vatican website using Diigo). As it stands, Lumen Fidei is still not available, while everyone has moved on already to discussing the recent apostolic exhortation. I understand if there are rights issues, but it's something I would definitely shell out money for. Actually, I'd even consider paying a small subscription fee to have major Vatican documents quickly and automatically downloaded to Verbum, because I actually use them in my work.

Frankly, getting a new encyclical out into the hands of the faithful is so important that I'd stop work on other Catholic projects in order to get them ready.

Yes

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