Really? the best way to fix a botched update?

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 24 2013 7:58 AM

Going back to MJ's point, and I certainly don't have Dave's expertise, but I easily imagine a versioning problem. It's easy to watch when people have trouble with L5's install and the logs show a series of versioning mixes.

In the Libronix case, the readin is pretty innocent (LHI being a major irritant). But Logos 'says' they're hard pressed to distinguish versioning on resources. 

I think the argument on this vs selective downloads is the same. Managing versioning correctly. If they fix either, they would fix both.


Posts 762
Patrick S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 24 2013 8:11 AM

Denise:

~ but I easily imagine a versioning problem. It's easy to watch when people have trouble with L5's install and the logs don't match.

~ But Logos 'says' they're hard pressed to distinguish versioning on resources. 

I think the argument on this vs selective downloads is the same. Managing versioning correctly. If they fix either, they would fix both.

Hi Denise - don't know if you were replying to my just posted point. In case you were and re: your comments above I believe (from a general programming perspective, obviously can't speak specifically about Logos) that it is definitely possible to have a file or something in the data folder which is updated when a) the Logos application is updated and/or b) when the Logos resources are updated.

The installer could then refer to that file to find out things like - the application version being installed is exactly the same or higher than was previously installed (and which interfaced with the data folder) or the 'revision' of the resources in data folder which would be something along the lines of when was the last (successful) library resource done.

I don't believe it would be impossible - and to be clear we would not be talking about doing partial resource updates - and again it has to be taken into account the major benefit which would accrue to the user (as well as saved bandwidth for Logos) not having to go through very painfully long download and indexing.

"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein

Posts 2465
Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 24 2013 8:26 AM

Dave's suggestion is terrific. Assuming the "scan" function checks file integrity (e.g. hash-check) there should be nothing to prevent a re-installation process from recycling those files. Even if file permissions are a problem, a copy (with correct permissions) as opposed to a move should solve this.

Posts 10107
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 24 2013 8:29 AM

Hi Patrick!  No, I wasn't speaking to your input; your expertise is on the same level as Dave! (I think anyway). It's just that Logos seems incapable of determining what in the library demands a specific version and what doesn't (so the discussion on selective downloads). So, when one discusses reading in an existing library (from an uninstall), one can easily imagine a user bringing down an newer program-install against an earlier library (in theory measured in minutes difference).  And Bob hates user support (telephone-call type = $$).

But I agree with you, the issues are certainly not insurmountable. My favorite software seems to be able to figure it out (Libby of course).


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Forum MVP
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 24 2013 9:17 AM

Denise:
It's just that Logos seems incapable of determining what in the library demands a specific version and what doesn't (so the discussion on selective downloads).

You've misunderstood what Logos have previously posted in this regard. It's perfectly capable of not installing resources that require a more recent version of the program, and it's perfectly capable of downloading new resources when they're available. What Logos won't do (and it's won't, rather than can't), is maintain complex dependency trees whereby they maintain different version of resources for intercompatability with any combination of software/resource version. Instead they have a simple rule that you either keep the current versions of your resources, or you update all your resources.

The beauty of Dave's suggestion is that the SCAN command already checks compatibility, so if there were incompatible resources they wouldn't be installed, and Logos would download compatible versions instead.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 24 2013 11:27 AM

Patrick S.:
Of course this only really applies to Windows installations correct?

Correct.

Patrick S.:
it would be a 'good thing' if the Windows installer figured out that there was an existing Logos library on the machine then asked the user if they wished to reconnnect to that existing library.

There is no no need to ask. Whatever is left behind by the Uninstaller is implicitly reusable.

Patrick S.:
Of course this would also presuppose that the uninstaller asked the user if they optionally wished to leave an existing (we assume fully functioning) library on the machine.

One reason for uninstalling is to remove damaged or invalid databases and start over, so it is only sensible to ask about preserving resources if that is the intention.

Dave
===

Windows & Android

Posts 10107
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 24 2013 12:36 PM

Mark, we're getting Bob's excuses mixed up. He was pretty clear he couldn't figure out what demanded a version (download required) vs optional (not versioned; optional). This is why Logos was unable to match Libronix, Microsoft, and the 'big dog' software teams. 


Posts 4905
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 24 2013 1:12 PM

This is sensible, it would be unrealistic to expect a corrupt database to be fixed - and much safer to rebuild them all.  It would mean re-indexing, but at least would mean a large library does not need to be re-downloaded.  It does still leave the potential for a corrupt resource - maybe startup process could identity and quarantine such resource continue loading. just a thought - could this work ?

Dave Hooton:

MJ. Smith:
Where we appear to disagree is one whether or not Logos has looked into the issue

My proposal is based on the fact that the Installer does scan for resources (in Libronix locations) and the Uninstaller has merely to ask if the user wants resources to be saved. And they will be removed after the Installer has finished scanning them in.

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 24 2013 4:12 PM

Denise:
He was pretty clear he couldn't figure out what demanded a version (download required) vs optional (not versioned; optional).

I'm afraid I don't understand this sentence.

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 24 2013 4:30 PM

Denise:
This is why Logos was unable to match Libronix,

Still in mourning?    Crying 

      Peace, Denise,

             Everything is gonna be alright.                  

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 9946
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 24 2013 4:37 PM

Super.Tramp:

Denise:
This is why Logos was unable to match Libronix,

Still in mourning?    Crying 

      Peace, Denise,

             Everything is gonna be alright.                  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkje4FiH9Qc

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 24 2013 6:02 PM

Disciple of Christ (doc):
 It does still leave the potential for a corrupt resource - maybe startup process could identity and quarantine such resource continue loading. just a thought - could this work ?

Resource discovery will identify old resources and download current ones. Logos also knows about many incompatible resources, but corrupt resources are usually found when indexing and there is a different strategy to fix those.

Dave
===

Windows & Android

Posts 1281
toughski | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 24 2013 6:45 PM

I don't think a corrupt database was the issue in my case. But I would have opted for re-indexing as it still would have given me a 6+ hour head start. Even while indexing I would have been able to use my Bible and read every resource, just not search effectively.

Posts 227
LogosEmployee
Mike | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 25 2013 3:47 PM

Hi Toughski,

I apologize for the inconvenience.I have emailed you regarding this issue.

Mike

Faithlife Tech Support
Win Logs|Mac Logs|Training

Posts 1281
toughski | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 26 2013 8:43 AM

Mike (Tech Support):
I apologize for the inconvenience.I have emailed you regarding this issue.

I appreciate it, Mike.

Posts 4625
RIP
Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 26 2013 8:59 AM

George Somsel:

Super.Tramp:

Denise:
This is why Logos was unable to match Libronix,

Still in mourning?    Crying 

      Peace, Denise,

             Everything is gonna be alright.                  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkje4FiH9Qc

Thanks, George!               I appreciated the "side trip"!                                  Peace!                  *smile*

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

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