Lemma List / Bible Word Study "Translation" question

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The Rev. Dr. John W. Sias | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Nov 26 2013 3:54 PM

If I do a Bible Word Study by right-clicking "through" the lemma "דָּבָר" in Ps 119:9 in BHW/4.18, and then limit my search to "Psalm 119," I get the expected 23 results under "Translation." I do not get anything, however, under "Grammatical Relationships." "דָּבָר" shows in the "word window" at the top of the Bible Word Study. If I click on that, I get, instead, options of "דבר 2" ,"דבר 1", etc. instead of the original "דָּבָר". (I don't remember the lemma list looking like that---perhaps this change is due to installing BHW/4.18?) I get the same options if I type in the window, "he:dbr." Fine. Selecting option "דבר 5 word", now I get different results. Nothing under "translation" (for either Logos LXX or ESV), but now I have the "Grammatical Relationships" section populated (from Andersen-Forbes Hebrew Grammatical Relationships).

Thus it appears to me that:

1) when the Bible Word Study is accessed through "right-clicking" from BHW/4.18, a different lemma list is somehow used than when one simply types into the Bible Word Study box.

2) when that mystery lemma list is used, it works with translation but not with grammatical relationships.

3) when the "type-in-the box" lemma list is used, it works with grammatical relationships but not with translation.

4) I also observe that the lemma list available seems to have changed (perhaps in relation to the installation of BHW/4.18).

If it matters, I have the Logos 5 engine but *not* the minimal crossgrade (or any other new Logos 5 package).

Can anyone fill me in on what's happening here? (Apparently, how I get my "lemma list" issues straightened out? How is that list even generated?)

Thanks!

John

Posts 56
The Rev. Dr. John W. Sias | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 26 2013 4:08 PM

I presume that this is related somehow to the "reverse interlinear" features of the Logos LXX and ESV resources. I am curious, when the lemma list changes, how those are "rekeyed" to the new lemma list.

If I do a morph search, for example, on "λόγος" in Psalm 119 in the Septuagint with Logos Morphology, and add columns for BHW 4.18 and BHS/WHM 4.2, I get the expected highlights on the various instances of "דָּבָר" I guess I don't understand how some of these features can be working and not others. I am very confused, I guess, about the internal connections made "behind the scenes" that make all these Logos features work. And that makes me doubt my search results, even when they seem to work.

Any enlightenment is appreciated! (Oh, and by the way, in case any devs are on here, the "performance upgrades" in 5.2SR1 have given me noticeable benefit. Thanks!)

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 26 2013 4:15 PM

http://wiki.logos.com/Logos_5$3a_Bible_Word_Study has answers to some of your questions.

Logos4catholics Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 56
The Rev. Dr. John W. Sias | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 27 2013 7:49 AM

I should have mentioned, also, that all the "Bible Word Study" features work for other words, including "torah", "halak" (whether clicked-through, copied-and-pasted from the lemma, or selected as "1 hlk" from the lemma list), and "derek" (whether clicked-through, copied-and-pasted from the lemma, or selected as "3 drk" from the lemma list). (Apologies for the transliteration---pasting was driving me nuts.)

So it seems there is something "weird" about "5 dabar" here. What am I missing?

Thanks!

Posts 56
The Rev. Dr. John W. Sias | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 27 2013 8:06 AM

One more possibly critical clue:

If I look in the Logos LXX Reverse Interlinear, the "root" of דְּבָרֶֽ in Ps 119:16 (for example) is listed as "דָּבָר" and then "2 דבר" ("word; speaker") not the lemma in the Andersen-Forbes of Ps 119:16, which is "5 דבר" (word).

So it appears the reason I'm not seeing results here is that there is this inconsistency between the coding of lemmas/roots between the Logos LXX Reverse Interlinear and the Andersen-Forbes Hebrew.

Thanks, M.J., for the wiki link. It was, if not directly applicable, very informative!

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 27 2013 8:31 AM

The Rev. Dr. John W. Sias:
So it appears the reason I'm not seeing results here is that there is this inconsistency between the coding of lemmas/roots between the Logos LXX Reverse Interlinear and the Andersen-Forbes Hebrew.

The fact that Logos supports multiple morphologies, and tries to combine these into the BWS, does raise some interesting problems from time to time. There are a few posts on here from Logos employees that try and give more insight into how they do their best to minimise these problems. These are the two most useful:

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