Verbum Practicum and the new Verbum Plus libraries

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This post has 21 Replies | 3 Followers

Posts 408
Mark Nolette | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Nov 29 2013 4:46 AM

Now that the Practicum video series is finally out, we now have Verbum Plus libraries with some new features, like the Catholic Topical Index. Will Practicum add any videos to incorporate these added features into the training?  

I also wonder about how many features in Verbum Plus are actually new. The video announcing this shows changes in the Lectionary section of the Verbum home page that have already appeared on mine, so they are hardly specific to Verbum Plus.  I do see that the Plus libraries contain more resources than their "non-Plus" counterparts, and that in itself would make an equivalent upgrade (Master to Master Plus) worth it. I'd welcome any more info. Many thanks to the folks at Logos for their constant work on Verbum!

Posts 120
Antonius | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 29 2013 7:14 AM

I think the Verbum Topical Index needs a chapter in Practicum all on its own.

Posts 27
Andrew Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 29 2013 8:37 AM

Look for an addendum to Practicum soon that covers the new features.

Posts 408
Mark Nolette | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 29 2013 9:48 AM

Thanks! I was hoping for some such news. I've started viewing the Practicum videos and find them very well done. Definitely worth the price! 

Posts 489
LogosEmployee
Louis St. Hilaire | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 29 2013 10:05 AM

Mark Nolette:
I also wonder about how many features in Verbum Plus are actually new. The video announcing this shows changes in the Lectionary section of the Verbum home page that have already appeared on mine, so they are hardly specific to Verbum Plus.  I do see that the Plus libraries contain more resources than their "non-Plus" counterparts, and that in itself would make an equivalent upgrade (Master to Master Plus) worth it. I'd welcome any more info.

As with Logos upgrades in the past, some new features and improvements are available generally with the software update and some are tied to specific new resources or databases that are only available in the libraries. As you've noticed, the improved lectionary sidebar is one of the former.

The two important things you can only get with upgrading to a Plus library are the Catholic Topical Index and the Saints database. The Topical Index shows up in the Passage Guide, Topic Guide and Cited By. The Saints data shows up on the homepage sidebar.

Posts 670
Sleiman | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 29 2013 10:30 AM

Louis St. Hilaire:
The two important things you can only get with upgrading to a Plus library are the Catholic Topical Index and the Saints database. The Topical Index shows up in the Passage Guide, Topic Guide and Cited By. The Saints data shows up on the homepage sidebar.
Allow me to express my appreciation for these two improvements to Verbum. The Catholic Topic Guide in particular increases the value of the software significantly for me. I'm impressed with it and very happy about it. So thank you.

Posts 408
Mark Nolette | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 29 2013 10:41 AM

From what the introductory video shows, the Topic Guide looks good. I'm glad to see someone else confirm that impression. I have left an email with David Day to see what my upgrade price will be. The additional resources are good as well. 

Posts 20
Tom Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 29 2013 2:13 PM

The Catholic Topic Guide seems really sharp but unfortunately I rely mostly on tablet and the topic guide isn't available for iPad. 

Posts 27
Andrew Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 29 2013 2:22 PM

The Topical Index is also a resource (i.e. a book)  in your library. The Topical Index resource will appear on the mobile and the links will work. So, even though the full topic guide of the desktop is not on the iPad, the actual cross reference resource will be there. 

Posts 571
Martin Grainger Dean | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 29 2013 3:24 PM
Louis St. Hilaire:
The two important things you can only get with upgrading to a Plus library are the Catholic Topical Index and the Saints database. The Topical Index shows up in the Passage Guide, Topic Guide and Cited By. The Saints data shows up on the homepage sidebar.
Andrew Jones:
The Topical Index is also a resource (i.e. a book) in your library. The Topical Index resource will appear on the mobile and the links will work. So, even though the full topic guide of the desktop is not on the iPad, the actual cross reference resource will be there.
So if I'll upgrade to Verbum Plus I'll have Catholic Topical Index (dataset i.e db or/and resource i.e lls?) and Saints database (dataset or/and resource?). 4 new items? Please clarify. Martin.
Posts 489
LogosEmployee
Louis St. Hilaire | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 29 2013 3:37 PM

Martin Grainger Dean:
So if I'll upgrade to Verbum Plus I'll have Catholic Topical Index (dataset i.e db or/and resource i.e lls?) and Saints database (dataset or/and resource?). 4 new items? Please clarify. Martin.

We've revised the contents of all the libraries, as we normally do when releasing new versions of the software, adding a number of books to all the libraries. The Index and Saints resources are included in all the new libraries. The comparison chart will show you the new libraries, and what new resources you would get by upgrading.

Posts 571
Martin Grainger Dean | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 29 2013 3:41 PM
Thanks Louis!
Posts 757
Fr. Charles R. Matheny | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 29 2013 9:50 PM

O wish I had some clue as to what you folks are discussing-smile.

Was early adopter to Verbum, bought in right off!

Never got much for my money, but that aside, I have heard nothing of a "plus addition", nothing listed on website .
If I click on upgrade, all I get is my library listed wrongly ( did they rename it again?) and, the upgrade only shows Protestant resources and, mostly ones I already own at that!

Yes, I'm signed in on both Logos home page and Verbum page.

Very confused ( whats new eh?)

Thanks ahead of time for any help in understanding what is going on.

Posts 757
Fr. Charles R. Matheny | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 29 2013 11:41 PM

Never mind folks, I finally found it.
Wow! There are going to charge us for some of the features were were promised and already paid for?

Now, we can search for the Blessed Virgin Mary and Logos will actually find resources based on those key words- any we only have to pay for this feature twice!

How nice, what a nice holiday gift for the company.

Good Grief!

I would not post such negative thoughts if it were not for the fact we had this conversation and, I even called Logos about the issue of Verbum not searching according to catholic terminology /using catholic key words.

I was assured that, without doubt and no need to be concerned at all, this would be fixed quickly ( didn't happen) and, I would never have to pay for the software programming mistakes to be fixed.

I find , yet again, that in order to get the software fixed to be as originally advertised, I have to pay for it again, and, that masked under- we are providing new resources.

The problem with this is that you cannot get the "fix" without buying new resources and/or features.

Sad day for me.

Posts 26521
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 29 2013 11:54 PM

Fr. Charles R. Matheny:
Thanks ahead of time for any help in understanding what is going on.

What's going on? We're preparing to enter the season of Advent ... 'cause we're in the West and take the short version.Wink

The announcement of the Verbum plus (and the start of splitting the software from Logos) was made today - no advanced notices missed.

1. Given my upgrade, I would have expected you to have a minimal upgrade of resources other than the databases. There has been a problem with the dynamic pricing/comparison for international versions of the package. Does that effect you?

2. Because Logos is starting to make Verbum and Logos run different software (the reasoning behind this, I don't know), the Verbum Plus allows you to do a full new install rather than just downloading the resources. Initially the site was set up so this appeared to be the primary option - it had no warning that it was a complete new install. Logos has now tried to clarify. It is  not necessary to install the new software yet. But at some point you'll probably want to.

3. They are making a number of other changes tailored towards the Catholic user ...  but I hope they are not being myopic as they are needed by other churches as well. I promise to make lots of suggestions to make these useful to other groups as well.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 757
Fr. Charles R. Matheny | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 30 2013 12:22 AM

Om in the United States.
I have the Master Verbum and a lot of other resources I bought over the years with Logos, had just bought another Catholic collection when Verbum came out.
Wish I had not bought verbum, it actually hurt my situation.

I have studies on this a couple hours now, it is simply another marketing 
"scheme" .
We basically pay for the programming mistakes of last time and are led, like cattle, to believe these are greener pastures and better grass by the carrot of new resources and tools. Resources are not new. Tools were already supposed to be there, was "promised" by a live human being at Logos/verbum these keyword search issues would be resolved and we would not pay for it.

Looks like they were quite wrong.
Saints search is nothing new, they just put it under its own section, you can already do it and, my guess, get the same information.

I feel quite violated to be honest.

Guess they will do the same thing with an Orthodox collection .
This part I expected, Logos is primarily a Protestant company and as such, denominationalism ( segregation) is part of normal life. I would have preferred it just remained a library system.

Really wish it was a library and we could use that other software and Logos resources.

Posts 757
Fr. Charles R. Matheny | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 30 2013 12:31 AM

I almost forgot: Thank you MJ, I appreciate the time you spend posting to both the threads I asked on, you are always a great blessing.

Sadly: I think Logos actions in this just goes towards "catholic" being a bad taste in people's mouth.

I pray they do not do this with the Orthodox resources.

Just leave them as resources.

In this way people cannot think the Orthodox profit from the software, are not abusing them with marketing schemes etc, etc.

I am very disappointed with Logos in this, I really am.
There is just no value in this upgrade for me and, I refuse to pay them again to finish the work I already paid for once.

The Saints search is probably cool, but something else to be broken often or break other areas and, I can already do those searches .

Posts 26521
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 30 2013 12:48 AM

See http://community.logos.com/forums/t/78286.aspx for my view on the saints feature ... a very nice first step if .... Logos doesn't lose sight of the breadth of the honoring of the saints.

See http://community.logos.com/forums/p/78287/547307.aspx#547307 on the Catholic topics feature.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 757
Fr. Charles R. Matheny | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 30 2013 1:33 AM

Would agree the tagging in "topics " looks good, yet, we were supposed to have gotten that tagging in verbum from the start, then was promised this would get done soon, I really hate to pay for this twice. I honestly felt like I paid for version 4 twice and we called it 5.

As for the Saints days, we can already do this search and honestly, we can do it outside Logos/verbum and get better results, much, much faster and easier- just sayin.

I really do wish Logos would call a moratorium on all new features, new software etc, an concentrate on cleaning up code and getting what they have properly working across all supported platforms. 

If they would do this, and nothing else for a bit, then implementing new features and resources would not have as many issues, such a wide range of issues and, issues they have would be much easier to find, fix and be done with.

I know thats not going to happen.
Honestly, I don't think new features are what we need, we need stability, reliability, usability.

Efficient Functional Stability across all supported Operating Systems is needed badly.

I am still waiting for Logos to provide the catholic searches it promised for the money I already gave them.

Blessings.

Posts 408
Mark Nolette | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 30 2013 5:10 AM

Since I started this thread, let me throw in my two cents.

I have no problem with Logos trying to sell things or add new features. That's one way that a company stays competitive and in business. Secondly, I like how the new Verbum Plus packages focus more on Catholic customers in the content they offer, and have less resource bloat. I have found Logos to be very useable and have rarely encountered problems with it. I know I don't even use all of its capabilities. Still, as someone who has Master and who has spent a fair amount of money on Logos/Verbum resources since the 1990's, here's what I suggest.

The Catholic Topical Index and the Saints feature should be free downloads for existing customers. There is really nothing they offer that a skilled Verbum user can't do on his/her own, though having the templates would help.  If someone wants to upgrade to Plus for the additional resources, then fine, let them pay a little extra. But for those who don't need the additional resources, this would be a nice "thank you" to current customers. 

I have over 1300 resources, but I have never, ever used over half of them. I wish there were a way to "trade in" resources one never uses for others one would use. That may be more complicated to pull off, but I'll throw it out anyway.  

I am pleased and impressed that Logos has put in this kind of effort to reach out to the Catholic community. But, like any other human enterprise, even a great effort can always be fine-tuned!

I was considering an upgrade to Plus, but I think I've reconsidered. A Capstone upgrade would give me more resources I wouldn't use, and only a few more that I would. Besides, it would push me over my budget. I thought of upgrading to Plus Master, but again, it doesn't give me more of what I actually use. What I have now meets my needs. Now and then, when I see a resource I would use, I'll buy that.  Overall, I am pleased with Verbum. But, as in all things, every user needs to know what they really need and can afford.  

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