WARNING: Verbum Plus is like a NEW INSTALLATION!

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This post has 107 Replies | 3 Followers

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Don Awalt | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Nov 29 2013 6:13 AM

I figured out what is going on - formerly, my Logos data was in C:\Users\AppData\Local\Logos4.... some people's are in C:\Users\AppData\Local\Logos5 if they fresh installed under Logos 5.

Well - I bought the Verbum Plus as it was a minimal cost for the resources it would add, and all this huge download, it now has set up a new folder C:\Users\AppData\Local\Verbum! Plus the old folder is still there.

No wonder I had a huge download!

On my other machine that ran the update, I have the Logos 4 folder, and I have a Verbum folder that only has 166MB in it.

Does this need to have an update? Does everything go into Verbum?

What a mess. If someone could describe what a correct install is supposed to look like here, I would appreciate it. Logos4 folder? Verbum folder?

Thanks!

Posts 27
Andrew Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 29 2013 8:54 AM

Hello Don. All the features of Verbum plus are now present in the Verbum mode of Logos 5 when the Verbum Plus resources are present. So, with the addition to your library of the new resources, the new features will appear in Logos 5/Verbum. However, we also have launched Verbum.exe, a stand alone desktop application. At this point, Verbum.exe is the same as the Verbum mode of Logos 5 as far a functionality is concerned. So, new customers will get Verbum.exe with their Verbum Plus purchases; existing customers can continue to run Logos 5 in Verbum mode or they can uninstall Logos 5 and run Verbum.exe or they can run them side-by-side on their machines. It sounds like you have installed Verbum.exe on your machine and now have both Logos 5 and Verbum. You can pick which one you'd like. Of course, all your customization and documents sync across to Verbum.exe.

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Don Awalt | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 29 2013 9:20 AM

Yes, I ran the installer - I got the impression it wanted me to, as part of the purchase of Verbum+. Oh well, almost through it. I am far enough through that everything has sync'd perfectly.

Thanks for the clarification, I'll uninstall Logos once it's all updated, no reason I can see to have both installed (double the space on resources), but it's nice to know you can run side-by-side if someone wants to.

BTW very nice job on the Verbum branding and continual updating of the product - it makes it more worthwhile to me, to be on Verbum.exe. Who knows what the future may bring Smile

Happy Thanksgiving weekend Andrew!

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 29 2013 12:31 PM

This really must be changed as a matter of great urgency. The installer should check for an existing Logos installation and upgrade it, not run the two side by side.

Posts 3662
BillS | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 29 2013 12:44 PM
Mark Barnes:

This really must be changed as a matter of great urgency. The installer should check for an existing Logos installation and upgrade it, not run the two side by side.

Given Mark's post, I'm curious.... does this mean we could have a BETA and an SR installation on the same machine? How would account synchronization work? As if there were two different users--separate settings, etc.? If so this not only could be a blessing but also a Pandora's box! Blessings!

Grace & Peace,
Bill


Asus GF63 8RD, I-7 8850H, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, 2TB HDD, NVIDIA GTX 1050Max
Samsung S9+, 64GB
Fire 10HD 64GB 7th Gen

Posts 27
Andrew Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 29 2013 12:49 PM

Sorry for the confusion. If you already have Logos 5 and want to keep it alone, there is no reason to run the installer. Just restart the program and the new resources will download into Logos 5. You can then Set Verbum to Yes in the command bar and have all the features of Verbum plus. However, if you go to the Verbum downloads page and click the link you will be getting a stand-alone application. We should perhaps at that point ask whether the user wants to replace Logos with Verbum. But, it is conceivable that someone will want to be able to run them side-by-side. As Verbum develops this will become even more appealing to some users.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 29 2013 12:55 PM

Andrew Jones:
As Verbum develops this will become even more appealing to some users.

And confusing for problem diagnosis with three possible installation locations** and two in one user account!

**  logos4, logos5 or verbum

Dave
===

Windows & Android

Posts 670
Sleiman | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 29 2013 1:01 PM

Andrew, is the Catholic Topical Index going to always be available only to purchasers of a Verbum package? or would (should) it be also offered as a separate resource?

Many non-Catholics who might not be aware/interested/motivated to look up the Verbum edition of Logos 5 might miss on this resource/tool which integrates directly into the software features and which might still be of interest to them to learn about what Catholics mean by certain words, where/how to find authoritative definitions / etc. 

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 29 2013 1:17 PM

Andrew Jones:
But, it is conceivable that someone will want to be able to run them side-by-side. As Verbum develops this will become even more appealing to some users.

We can switch between the Verbum/Logos interfaces from the command line. By all means make that easier to do - but we have been told time after time that it's not possible to have two copies of Logos installed on the same user account. Why make an exception for Verbum? It makes no sense unless you also allow users to install two copies of Logos side-by-side, as people have been requesting for years.

Posts 27
Andrew Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 29 2013 1:29 PM

Verbum.exe is a new application that works in the Logos eco-system. In the same sort of way that you can have Vyrso and Logos (Bible) on the same mobile device and access the same books through them and with the same account, Verbum and Logos are now distinct applications. So, it is different than having two iterations of the same program on your machine. We anticipate that the future will bring further divergence between Verbum and Logos. We have updated the Verbum download page to better explain this.

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LogosEmployee

Mark Barnes:

but we have been told time after time that it's not possible to have two copies of Logos installed on the same user account. Why make an exception for Verbum? It makes no sense unless you also allow users to install two copies of Logos side-by-side, as people have been requesting for years.

It's not two copies of Logos; it's one copy of Logos and one copy of Verbum.

You may say "po-tay-to, po-tah-to", but it's the differences between the two programs that allow this to be possible.

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 29 2013 2:55 PM

2307:
You may say "po-tay-to, po-tah-to", but it's the differences between the two programs that allow this to be possible.

Technically possible or politically possible?

And what is the difference between Logos5.exe and Verbum.exe? And if I can sign into Verbum with non-Verbum credentials (which I have done), what's stopping users using Verbum  as way of a spouse/child/colleague accessing their own copy of Logos 5, without creating a new user account?

And can I (slightly cheekily) point out a bug in Verbum? In Logos.exe, you can set verbum to yes, if you also own Verbum. In verbum.exe the logic should be that you can set verbum to no if you also own Logos - but that doesn't work.

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 29 2013 2:56 PM

Andrew Jones:
We have updated the Verbum download page to better explain this.

The "Thank you for your order" email also needs to be updated, if it's not been done already.

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 29 2013 4:44 PM

Andrew Jones:
However, if you go to the Verbum downloads page and click the link you will be getting a stand-alone application. We should perhaps at that point ask whether the user wants to replace Logos with Verbum. But, it is conceivable that someone will want to be able to run them side-by-side.

This sounds like one could run e.g. Verbum in stable and Logos in beta mode as the same user on the same machine (I won't do this to my old Acer Extensa, but it sounds like a nice idea, especially since more risky, potentially unstable betas are announced)

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

Posts 2829
Don Awalt | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 29 2013 5:07 PM

Note also if you run side by side, resources, media files, indexes, etc. are all in both directory trees - for me, each one is 65GB - 70GB in size. Make sure you have the disk space to run side by side!

Posts 670
Sleiman | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 29 2013 5:20 PM

Even if disk space is not an issue, whenever you purchase new resources, you'd have to download them twice and index Surprise twice! you should take that into account as well. Personally I don't think this is a good idea at all.

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Randy W. Sims | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 29 2013 5:32 PM

Wonder if it's possible or a good idea to create a link from one of the Resources directories to the other so that there is just one copy. Should be able to open multiple copies of the same file for reading. Probably best to turn off updates on one. Might try it and see what breaks...

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 29 2013 5:34 PM

Sleiman:

Even if disk space is not an issue, whenever you purchase new resources, you'd have to download them twice and index Surprise twice! you should take that into account as well. Personally I don't think this is a good idea at all.

As I said, I won't do it on my current machine, but there are users with tons of SSD space and ultra-fast processors, who claim they don't even recognize whether the indexer is working or not (and anyway they index a large library in the background in two hours or so). 

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

Posts 5249
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 29 2013 6:02 PM

I have no space for a second full installation of Logos, why can't the Verbum App use the items already installed??? Indeed I did try to use verbum mac and it would;t even start up keep saying preparing to download after 20 minutes I just forced it to quit....

-Dan

Posts 654
David Bailey | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 29 2013 7:35 PM

Dan Francis:

I have no space for a second full installation of Logos, why can't the Verbum App use the items already installed??? Indeed I did try to use verbum mac and it would;t even start up keep saying preparing to download after 20 minutes I just forced it to quit....

-Dan

I have very very little space right now for even the Verbum Plus upgrade.  I tried the upgrade this morning - the price for the upgrade meant about $1 per new resource. Download went fine.  Indexing, however, halted due to lack of hard drive capacity on my super not duper state-of-the-old-art Lenovo T61 Thinkpad. Hmm.  I need more drive space, but I don't want to invest anymore on this computer.

I could not complete the indexing of the Verbum Plus on this machine.  So, I tried a work around by using Method 2 from the Logos Wiki.  I completely removed Logos 5 from my Lenovo laptop and re-installed Logos 5 (not the Verbum executable). Then, following the instructions in the Wiki, I transferred a fully indexed backup copy of selected Verbum Plus Logos 5 folders to my Lenovo machine.  After launching the program, it prepared my library for about 45 minutes.  So far, Verbum Plus is working and stable. Indexing has been an issue for me on this machine because the partition space where Logos Verbum resides falls below 1 GB when indexing many resources.

David

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