WARNING: Verbum Plus is like a NEW INSTALLATION!

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 2 2013 5:27 PM

Dan Francis:
And I will happily download the new APP once you make a migration tool from Logos to Verbum...

It is possible for Logos to do that and I've already emailed the suggestion!  In the meantime I suggest Method 3 (if on Windows), else see http://wiki.logos.com/Quick_Installation_onto_Multiple_Macs (but only where you use the existing resources and then re-index).

Dave
===

Windows & Android

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Louis St. Hilaire | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 2 2013 5:50 PM

Dan Francis:
besides some of us have works like Oxford Bible Commentary and Jerome Biblical Commentary that Verbum CANNOT download.

We rebuilt and published these resources a while ago. Is it really still the case that they don't download automatically?

Posts 757
Fr. Charles R. Matheny | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 2 2013 6:35 PM

Dear Mark: I'm sorry, but I don't know what "LCV" is-smile, well, it's true- I don't.
I had Logos 4 and the Catholic Library builder and several other works I need, lexical aids, theological dictionary add on's etc, like most, buying resources here and there.

upgraded to 5, then Verbum.

Problem: Verbum, the catholic library, will not search from Catholic terms. We discussed it after Verbum came out, threads are still on the server.

I called Logos, was assured this would be fixed quickly as possible, it was a tagging issue.

To my experience, this still has not been done.

Lots of resource updates, many new resources available , but still cannot search a catholic library system by catholic terminology.

I see the catholic topic search and it "looks" to me to be the missing search we already paid for.

Thats my main issue, an ethics issue.

I could be quite wrong, could be a totally different function, yet, somehow I would think that same tagging would have to be done.

If this is a new and independent feature, then indeed, I am wrong and, 40.00 for a new feature/tool, if useful , is very inexpensive.

The other issues are just software issues on their server I suppose, never has shown my library correctly, so figuring an upgrade is just a bit of a hassle.

At this point, the only upgrade they show for me is upwards of 1000.00 , pretty big jump for poor clergy-smile.

Personally think this whole Verbum vs Logos is a huge mistake-huge.

Should just be one software, all resources are tagged, each person can set UI for their own needs, but the resources they need.

Verbum has been no advancement for me actually as far as the software is concerned.

It does nothing for me that 5 and the Catholic Library Builder didn't do, as far as the software itself is concerned.

Different colors for different denominations? Seems wrong to me, over complicating things.

Personally don't want denominational software, I am surrounded by denominationalism in real life, can't see how that has benefited humanity one iota, just want my software to do what I tell it to do, find this, look for that, compare this, give me that in Hebrew, or Greek, find these maps, that location etc, etc. 

All this "yes for Verbum, no for Verbum", separate software etc, well, honestly , I would much prefer they spend the time trying to get the software more stable, more efficient ,more consistent and a little less hard in my processors.

I tried to do the online talk with a sales person today, guess the servers failed.

Try to call again tomorrow if I have time.

I have a lot of software, Logos has more problems with software and confusion with software upgrades than any company I have ever known.

Simplicity is not easy to achieve , but it is always best when trying to roll out new products, confusion does not seem to be something people are looking for in products-imho.

Thanks for everyones help.

Posts 1771
Tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 2 2013 7:38 PM

MJ. Smith:

Catholic catechism:

  • Catechism of the Catholic Church
  • The Catechism of the Council of Trent
  • Youcat

Lutheran Reformed catechism:

  • Heidelberg Catechism

Baptist catechism:

  • Spurgeon catechism

Church of Scotland/Church of England:

  • The Westminster Larger Catechism
  • The Westminster Shorter Catechism

Nonconformist Catechism:

  • Instructions for the Ignorant (Bunyan)

Orthodox Catechism:

  • The Holy Catechism of Nicolas Bulgaris
  • The Orthodox Confession of the Catholic and Apostolic Eastern Church

I know it slipped by you! Surprise

Big Smile  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heidelberg_Catechism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Forms_of_Unity

www.hombrereformado.org  Solo a Dios la Gloria   Apoyo

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 2 2013 7:42 PM

Thanks Tom ... my mind really wasn't on catechisms yesterday ... glad you made the correction.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 5247
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 2 2013 9:04 PM

Louis St. Hilaire:

Dan Francis:
besides some of us have works like Oxford Bible Commentary and Jerome Biblical Commentary that Verbum CANNOT download.

We rebuilt and published these resources a while ago. Is it really still the case that they don't download automatically?

I honestly don;t know for certain... I am glad to hear they are on your Logos 4 servers..... in my Ignorance I had assumed works you no longer published  were consigned to be what they are... I know when I first got JBC they were in an old format and had to find someone to make the Libronix version available to me JBC still says on  the info screen that it is JBC.lbxlls as the file OxfordBC is now listed as OXBIBCOM.Logos4, so I would guess the OBC would download. Is there an update for JBC???

-Dan

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 3 2013 2:07 AM

Fr. Charles R. Matheny:

Problem: Verbum, the catholic library, will not search from Catholic terms. We discussed it after Verbum came out, threads are still on the server.

I called Logos, was assured this would be fixed quickly as possible, it was a tagging issue.

To my experience, this still has not been done.

Lots of resource updates, many new resources available , but still cannot search a catholic library system by catholic terminology.

I see the catholic topic search and it "looks" to me to be the missing search we already paid for.

Thats my main issue, an ethics issue.

I could be quite wrong, could be a totally different function, yet, somehow I would think that same tagging would have to be done.

I'll try and explain again. The short answer is that you've been promised Catholic-specific topics in the Topic Guide as a free update, and that's still coming. What Verbum+ is offering is Catholic-specific content for existing topics.

So let me expand that. The problem with topics that has been discussed before affects both protestants and Catholics. The problem is that the Topic Guide only covers topics that are found directly in the Bible (it perhaps could have been called 'Biblical Topics'). The topics in the topic guide are currently those those topics which appear in the major Bible dictionaries available in Logos. Almost all of the data in the topic guide is culled from those dictionaries. Logos have said that they are expanding the range of Topics that will be covered by the Topic guide. From a technical point of view they do this by expanding the LCV (Logos Controlled Vocabulary) to cover additional topics, and by adding LCV tagging to reference works that cover theological (or perhaps historical and pastoral) topics. On the protestant side, for example, you might hope that tagging would be extended to cover the topics in the New Dictionary of Theology. On the Catholic side you might hope that it would cover A Catholic Dictionary. The work to increase the coverage and extent of the LCV/Topic Guide has been going on for several years and, as far as I know, still continues.

The Catholic Topical Index is a separate but related project, and I'm pretty sure it hasn't been discussed previously. It's the Verbum equivalent of the Dictionary of Bible Themes, but it has been created from scratch. It's primary innovation is that it includes links to Scripture, Church Teaching, Liturgy, Canon Law and Ecclesiastical Writers. So it's purpose is not so much to expand the range of topics that are covered (although it will no doubt contribute to that project too), but to expand the Catholic content within those topics.

So even with Verbum+, you can't run a topic guide on Apostolic College. That entry is not in the LCV yet, and I guess that's the sort of entry you hope would be coming soon, and will benefit all Logos/Verbum users. That's what you've been promised, and (I'm afraid) that's what we're all still waiting for. 

But with Verbum+, what you do get is additional Catholic content for existing topics. So if you run a Topic Guide on Prayer, you'll get all of this:

So, to repeat: you've been promised more Catholic topics (which is still coming), but Verbum+ is providing Catholic-specific content for existing topics. (Although the CTI is obviously ready-to-go when those Catholic topics are added to the LCV/Topic Guide, so you'll get double-benefit eventually. In the meantime Verbum+ users can use CTI 'manually' to work round the absence of those topics.)

I don't know what Verbum package you already have, but as the index comes will all Verbum+ packages, you might consider 'upgrading' to Verbum+ Basic. That will give you this new index, you'll keep everything you already have, and will be cheaper than upgrading to the equivalent level that you already have.

Posts 8893
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 3 2013 2:46 AM

MJ. Smith:
There should be 3 Catholic catechisms.

MJ. Smith:

  • Catechism of the Catholic Church
  • The Catechism of the Council of Trent
  • Youcat

As for resources, there are five, as there are two CCC's (Latin and English), and two Trent's (normal and Text Only).

As for the predefined Catechism collection, there are two: the Latin and English CCC. Which, unfortunately, makes the collection useless for many purposes. Who wants a Cited By panel where every result is doubled? (See Cited By -Resources pulled beyond collection specified.) (And, Louis, as you can see in that thread, you also need to make it possible for people to tell the predefined collections apart from custom made collections that they have accidentally made with the same names. Or perhaps the latter should simply replace the former, like My PG overrides the default one.)

Louis St. Hilaire:
(I believe we're even going to be making the metadata underlying them visible soon.)

Yes

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

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fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 3 2013 3:10 AM

Mark, as I always I'm amazed at your ability to explain clearly what Logos should have explained, but rarely do. They spend far too many words on telling us how great things are, and far too few on making it clear what they're actually talking about: what the great new feature is and is not, does and does not, why we want it, and how to use it. 

EDIT: Here's the Preface to the Topical Index, if anyone is interested:

"The digitization of the Scriptures and texts of the Catholic tradition in Verbum makes it possible to study and disseminate the “data” of the faith in new ways. Using Verbum’s ability to directly like together the sources of the faith, the student of Catholicism can follow chains of references from the Scriptures to modern Churching teaching and so see the development of doctrine.

This Catholic Topical Index makes these chains of references more explicit and accessible. Through a combination of automated mining of our existing digital texts and our own editorial collation and review, we’ve aimed to bring together relevant references from the sources—the Scriptures, magisterial texts, Church Fathers and significant theologians—under topical headings related to matters of Catholic doctrine.

The result serves as a topical gateway into the tradition that previously could only be found piecemeal in topical Bibles, patristic and magisterial sourcebooks and the subject indexes of individual texts. Now, starting with any topic covered in the index, you can easily get a snapshot of the tradition, including the most commonly cited Biblical passages and patristic sources, relevant sections of St. Thomas’s Summa Theologica and other medieval texts, and documents of the magisterium down to the Catechism of the Catholic Church and encyclicals of recent popes. All references are linked directly to their sources so that they can be instantly explored in context.

In addition, the reference searching capabilities of Verbum allow you use the index to form connections between the references themselves. From the starting point of a particular Bible verse or passage in the Church Fathers, the Catholic Topical Index allows you to discover related topics and from their broaden your study to other sources relevant to that topic.

Our method of collating citations allows us to apply a ranking to the references that approximates their importance based on how frequently they are cited in relation to the topic. The references under each heading are sorted according to this ranking, so that in any lengthy list, the most relevant references will appear toward the front of the list.

Finally, it should be noted that this index remains something of a work in progress. The index will be periodically updated to include texts newly added to the Verbum library or to correct errors that are discovered."

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 3 2013 3:48 AM

In case anyone is interested in exactly what is in each collection, I've prepared a spreadsheet, here: 2055.Catholic Collections.xlsx

And, fgh, if what you said was really true, I wouldn't have had to explain it twice Stick out tongue.

Posts 1771
Tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 3 2013 5:38 AM

Mark Barnes:
I've prepared a spreadsheet, here: 2055.Catholic Collections.xlsx

Thanks Mark, now I can make my own collections and use them in Logos5 without having to switch the interface from logos to Verbum.  

Not that its hard to do, but I would like for these three "collection" to show up as options to select or not to select!

www.hombrereformado.org  Solo a Dios la Gloria   Apoyo

Posts 757
Fr. Charles R. Matheny | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 3 2013 6:27 AM

Dear Mark: Thank you for your help, your excellent and detailed reply, the hard work.
Please forgive me for not understanding the first time around.

I can do many things with computers and software, but coding and how it is done, is not one of those areas.

I have verbum Master and, I now see, as you have stated, I can upgrade, on a downward path and thus get the feature sets quite affordably.

Sadly, they do not have another upgrade for my package that adds resources useful to me unless I spend quite a bit, perhaps another day on that part.

Again, thanks for your patience and I am truly sorry for being so dense on the subject.

Grace and Peace to all.

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 3 2013 9:21 AM

Fr. Charles R. Matheny:
Please forgive me for not understanding the first time around.

Fr. Charles R. Matheny:
Again, thanks for your patience and I am truly sorry for being so dense on the subject.

No need to apologise at all. I should have typed my first message in less of a hurry Smile.

Posts 489
LogosEmployee
Louis St. Hilaire | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 3 2013 9:46 AM

Dan Francis:
I know when I first got JBC they were in an old format and had to find someone to make the Libronix version available to me JBC still says on  the info screen that it is JBC.lbxlls as the file OxfordBC is now listed as OXBIBCOM.Logos4, so I would guess the OBC would download. Is there an update for JBC???

I was partly wrong. JBC was published, but not rebuilt. So, it should download automatically but will still be .lbxlls.

Posts 5247
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 3 2013 10:57 AM

Louis St. Hilaire:
I was partly wrong. JBC was published, but not rebuilt. So, it should download automatically but will still be .lbxlls.

That is very good news thank you... just wish you were allowed to sell this fine work to others.

-Dan

Posts 5247
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 3 2013 1:34 PM

PLEASE for the love of all that is good..... DO NOT HAVE USERS DOWNLOAD SOFTWARE that Support will offer no help on. Logos phone support tried to convince me there was no such thing as a verbum program or that it was in Beta and not supported. As it sits now I have no Logos and no working Verbum... this is frustrating and not being able to get any phone support is frustrating.

-Dan

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 3 2013 1:55 PM

Dan Francis:
Logos phone support tried to convince me there was no such thing as a verbum program or that it was in Beta and not supported.

Youw - that would annoy me - call and ask to speak to Andrew Jones or Bob P. himself ...

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 7943
LogosEmployee

Dan Francis:

Logos phone support tried to convince me there was no such thing as a verbum program or that it was in Beta and not supported.

This should not happen. I'm sorry for the miscommunication.

I'll contact the CS manager to find out what happened.

Posts 5247
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 3 2013 2:55 PM

Well just miscommunication....someone not aware of a new release... Verbum is indexing now all is fine it was just very annoying.... and I got to the point I thought it would be days before things were up and running again.... after deleting the folders I was instructed to and playing the book files into the resources folder (although I was told this is not supported by Logos), I restarted Verbum, and it started indexing immediately although it did take over 20 minutes for the Home Page to come up. Indexing is up to 36% I am just happy that things are working....

-Dan 

Posts 227
LogosEmployee
Mike | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 3 2013 3:30 PM

Hello Dan,

I apologize for the misunderstanding. Verbum is indeed supported. I'm going to send you an email to discuss this further. Please respond to that email if you need any further assistance with your Verbum installation.

Mike

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