So I need to write a paper on...

Page 2 of 2 (36 items) < Previous 1 2
This post has 35 Replies | 3 Followers

Posts 602
Bill Anderson | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 8 2014 1:18 PM

I would recommend that you consider the view of John Murray (unfortunately, not in Logos) on the subject of "definitive sanctification." 

Posts 1605
Ken McGuire | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 8 2014 2:18 PM

abondservant:

"What is the role of effort in sanctification". The prof is Southern Baptist. Any resource suggestions? Thanks in advance.

Such a simple sounding question, but also one where we can talk past each other so easy.

"effort".  WHOSE effort?  Ours?  Gods?  I would say God's, but how does God's effort happen and come to us?  "foolishness of preaching" (1 Cor 1.12, and I suppose Rom 10) - "earthen vessels" (2 Cor 4)

"sanctification" - what do you mean by this?  I would say that it has something to do with God making those of us who are not a people into God's people...  Check out 1 Peter and Hosea, among other passages.  Or those of us who are dead into those alive in Christ (Romans and Ephesians in their own ways speak about this)

What about other passages like Philippians, that says to work out your salvation with fear and trembling?

These passages have been the subject of extensive theological debate - and lots of yelling and too little listening.  It would seem that more time actually listening to the word would be in order - as well as listening to each other and clarifying what we mean by terms that can easily mean different things to different people.

If I had to do an assignment like this today, I would pick one the terms that is debated about this and then study what the Bible actually says about it.

The Gospel is not ... a "new law," on the contrary, ... a "new life." - William Julius Mann

Posts 4772
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 8 2014 3:44 PM

Ken McGuire:

"sanctification" - what do you mean by this?  I would say that it has something to do with God making those of us who are not a people into God's people...  Check out 1 Peter and Hosea, among other passages.

If I had to do an assignment like this today, I would pick one the terms that is debated about this and then study what the Bible actually says about it.

An approach I like is to do what few seem to do...look at it not according to the way I think it is supposed to work, but in the way THAT explanation doesn't work.

It's all fine and dandy to talk about those who are not a people becoming a people...but what about the people that actually were a people (uh, supposedly THE people), but for some reason got the cold shoulder?? What happened? Weren't they "sanctified"??? What broke down? Answer that question, and a few of the ones that logically follow, and you will come up with answers that don't mesh with "the standard explanation(s)". And whatever you do, DON'T accept anyone's (and I do mean anyone's) summation of the breakdown--make sure you follow the evidence trail on your own. Remember, there is a "strong delusion" out there just waiting to suck you in...if it hasn't already.

Posts 737
Evan Boardman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 8 2014 3:48 PM

A study on Antinomians would be fruitful.

Posts 4772
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 8 2014 3:51 PM

Evan Boardman:

A study on Antinomians would be fruitful.

Wouldn't it, now! Idea

LOL The irony of that statement just hit me. Stick out tongue

Posts 6498
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 8 2014 4:22 PM

George Somsel:

No role whatsoever.

9 Do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! Fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, sodomites, 10 thieves, the greedy, drunkards, revilers, robbers—none of these will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And this is what some of you used to be. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

1 Corinthians 6:9–11

Thanks for sharing your view George, but I believe the OP asked for suggestions on resources that discuss the topic and not for your particular view/opinion on the subject.  I'm sure others will feel the need to reply to your comment by presenting their view and then it'll become a non ending theological debate.  So let's keep this thread with suggestions on resources that discuss the topic and not your personal theological views that in your eyes seem right, but in the eyes of others may not seem right.

Brotherly,

DAL

Ps. My suggestion is Grudem's Systematic Theology and Cottrell's The Faith Once and for All...both contain 2 different views for comparison.

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 8 2014 5:24 PM

DAL:

George Somsel:

No role whatsoever.

9 Do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! Fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, sodomites, 10 thieves, the greedy, drunkards, revilers, robbers—none of these will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And this is what some of you used to be. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

1 Corinthians 6:9–11

Thanks for sharing your view George, but I believe the OP asked for suggestions on resources that discuss the topic and not for your particular view/opinion on the subject.  I'm sure others will feel the need to reply to your comment by presenting their view and then it'll become a non ending theological debate.  So let's keep this thread with suggestions on resources that discuss the topic and not your personal theological views that in your eyes seem right, but in the eyes of others may not seem right.

Brotherly,

DAL

Ps. My suggestion is Grudem's Systematic Theology and Cottrell's The Faith Once and for All...both contain 2 different views for comparison.

What I passed on was not simply my opinion, but the undoubted truth of scripture.  I would never write anything else.  I only write what is undoubted Christian truth such as "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a Democrat to enter the kingdom of heaven."  Wink

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 27785
Forum MVP
JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 8 2014 10:02 PM

I read this tonight and thought of your paper. 

"Don’t you realize that you become the slave of whatever you choose to obey? You can be a slave to sin, which leads to death, or you can choose to obey God, which leads to righteous living."

Romans 6:16

OSX & iOS | Logs |  Install

Posts 2472
Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 9 2014 1:34 AM

One of the posts said it well. First, you'd need to define sanctification.

If the paper is longish, I'd spend quality time on "definitions", with emphasis on word study. The theological word books (available on Logos) would be a good place to start.

If the paper is even longisher, I'd also touch on historical interpretations, avoiding modern treatments for the time being. In this regard, systematic theologies and some classical writings (e.g. church fathers) are indispensable.

If the paper is really short, I'd just go straight to the Bible, with a focus on exegesis.

Posts 225
Alex Bui | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 9 2014 3:32 AM

Hi abondservant,

I have been thinking and prayed for you.  I found this quote on Logos twitter.  Hope this will help you on your research paper.

“It is not the strength of your faith but the object of your faith that actually saves you.” ―Timothy Keller

Here are few more quotes.

"because he hath provided an atonement and complete righteousness; how well furnished to take the charge of bringing sinners to a state of grace and holiness, because he hath the fulness of the Spirit in him, to communicate to men, in order to renew their natures, and fit them for heaven."  Isaac Watts

" 'Tis grace hath brought me safe thus far, and grace will lead me home." John Newton

Posts 3938
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 9 2014 6:58 AM

Thank you all for the scriptures, resources and ideas for direction for the paper. I know its a complicated and often times hot button issue. I'll definitely be picking up a number of these books, and using as many of the quotes as I can. That democrat line made me laugh george :)

L2 lvl4, L3 Scholars, L4 Scholars, L5 Platinum,  L6 Collectors. L7 Baptist Portfolio. L8 Baptist Platinum.

Posts 1052
William Gabriel | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 9 2014 7:57 AM

Evan Boardman:

A study on Antinomians would be fruitful.

This resource isn't in Logos (yet), but may be interesting: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00GM3WQZ6/

Linked to from a Kevin DeYoung blog post: Antinomianism: It's Bigger Than You Think

Posts 6498
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 9 2014 8:34 AM

Ok, here's a little advice: Define the word, look at the Scriptures where the word is used in different senses and after you've checked all the evidence, then draw only those conclusions that are warranted by the evidence and not by your own "theological inclinations." A lot of people tend to do that and are like: "Well, this is what the evidence shows 'X' but this is 'Y' what I've believed for so long" and pretty much ignored the evidence and continue to stick to what they believe thinking it's a correct view, when in reality is not (e.g. look at all the different religious groups around us, how many think their view is the "right one"?).

Hebrews 12:14, "Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord." If it's already a given, why pursue it?

Hebrews 5:9, "And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him." Seems like obedience is necessary, isn't it? 

Which brings me to this other quote posted earlier that seems to summarize it in a great way:

 Dallas Willard:

Once we learn that grace is not opposed to effort (action)—though it is opposed to earning (attitude)—the way is open for us to “work out” all that is involved in our salvation, not only “with fear and trembling” but also with the calm assurance that it is God who is at work in us to accomplish all of His goodwill (see Philippians 2:12–13).

The Great Omission

James 2:24, "You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only." And v. 26, "For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also." Which works? The ones that God has prepared beforehand that we should walk in them (Ephesians 2:10) and when we do that, it helps us to be holy/sanctified as he is holy/sanctified (1 Peter 1:16).  No works of righteousness which we do ourselves (attitude) are need, because they don't help us at all (Titus 3:5).


Paul was saved by grace, yet he had to arise and be baptized, calling on the name of the Lord; because he was not disobedient to the call.  By doing so God worked through him and that's why he was even able to say, "I have labored more than they (the other apostles) have," and also say, "Be imitators of me as I am of Christ."

Best wishes on your research!

DAL

Posts 4772
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 9 2014 3:16 PM

William Gabriel:

This resource isn't in Logos (yet), but may be interesting: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00GM3WQZ6/

Linked to from a Kevin DeYoung blog post: Antinomianism: It's Bigger Than You Think

You should list these in a new SUGGESTIONS topic thread.

Posts 1052
William Gabriel | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 16 2014 8:16 PM

abondservant:

"What is the role of effort in sanctification". The prof is Southern Baptist. Any resource suggestions? Thanks in advance.

Did you finish your paper? Any chance you'd be willing to share? Big Smile

Posts 3938
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 2 2014 2:17 PM

DAL:

 Dallas Willard:

Once we learn that grace is not opposed to effort (action)—though it is opposed to earning (attitude)—the way is open for us to “work out” all that is involved in our salvation, not only “with fear and trembling” but also with the calm assurance that it is God who is at work in us to accomplish all of His goodwill (see Philippians 2:12–13).



This was sort of the approach I took - and one mirrored by the New Hampshire Baptist Confession - quoted from Philip Schaff's Creeds of Christendom.

My argument was (in short - and paraphrased so I don't get flagged for having plagiarized my self...) that while effort won't save us, effort is asked of us. While effort won't save us, effort is reflective of whether we were ever saved to begin with. Those with a deep abiding sense of the reality of hell, the weight of their sins, and the glory of heaven tend to be more involved in what Pink called the disciplines of sanctification (in his book the doctrine of sanctification).

Thanks for all the advice! will keep you posted RE my grade haha. I'm currently at 12 pages, and not quite ready to wrap up. Fortunately we were not given a maximum page count, just a minimum.

This resource (the first paragraph of #9 in particular) affected my thinking on this as well.

L2 lvl4, L3 Scholars, L4 Scholars, L5 Platinum,  L6 Collectors. L7 Baptist Portfolio. L8 Baptist Platinum.

Page 2 of 2 (36 items) < Previous 1 2 | RSS