Windows Phone

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Posts 28
He Is Lord! | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 12 2014 5:45 PM

You anti Microsoft/Windows people say what you will I am quite happy and satisfied with my Windows Phone and operating system and will keep it because it works for me.  If you check other threads on this form you will find I am not alone.  I will keep my windows phone and do without Logos on it as I have found other alternatives that provide comparable service for the Windows Phone platform as Logos gets left in the dust.  Laridian PocketBible meets the need. Others who feel slighted by Logos for their Windows Phone need to check it out.  For me that is what I will be using on my phone from here on out as well as the YouVerison app from LifeChurch.  God bless!

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Don Awalt | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 13 2014 4:32 AM

Richard, no one is anti-Microsoft, it is not necessary to categorize people. For myself, I was just trying to post an explanation from a pro-Microsoft source that might indicate, not that there is anything wrong with your preference, but why this platform is not a priority for Logos and other software companies - your preference of phone is a significantly minority preference.

Enjoy your phone, enjoy your software, enjoy your choices. Peace.

Posts 28
He Is Lord! | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 13 2014 5:29 AM

Don, if I offended you, I apologize, that was not the intent. For a company such as Logos whose mission was to provide a tool for all to enhance Bible study, operating platform "market share" should be only a small part of the equation.  Any company's primary business goal should be to service the desires of the customers first, who have thru purchasing a very expensive product put the company in the successful posture they are.  If Logo's business model is to strictly make money then perhaps we all have been misled in the goals/mission of this organization.  While this particular thread in this forum seems to believe that Windows Phone users are a "significant minority" I would suggest that you broden your reading and read other threads that would indicate otherwise, not as it relates to the overall use of windows phone in the total marketplace but more specifically as it relates to the Logos products (which in my opinion is what Logos should be looking at and evaluating not the total marketplace).  Also, your statement that "the platform is not a priority to...and other software companies" is misleading should you desire to explore the YouVersion app and the Laridian PocketBible who have been responsive and bold in addressing, perhaps because profit is not their primary objective. 

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Deacon Steve | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 13 2014 6:34 AM

Richard, 

     If it's any consolation, I don't use the iOS Logos on my iPhone.  Screen is too small for these imperfect and aging eyes.  The tablet is better.  But I  use and enjoy using Logos 5 on my Windows 8 laptop.  Faster boot that my Win 7 desktop on lesser hardware.  Solid performance ... machine running for a week and longer without issue.  The whole thing you mention with Office 365 is very helpful, even without the phone.  I use it every day.  I think you can find many other positive comments in these forums from very happy Windows users.  Michael Childs has stated his wonderful experience with the Surface Pro 2 many times.  You can search and read his comments, and others as well.  My opinion, Logos is the premier bible study software as a whole for the Microsoft Windows environment.  Who knows, as Bob pointed out, the phone piece may come along some day.

Smile

Posts 28
He Is Lord! | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 13 2014 10:44 AM

Steve,

I think you may be correct, that basically this is much to do over nothing when it comes to the phone applications, regardless of iphone. android or windows. Thinking back to when I had the Logos software loaded on my prior android phone it was of little value for serious study due the small screen size. I too use the Logos software on my desktop (windows), laptop (windows) and Surface Pro (windows) with much success and satisfaction.  I share your observation that for other than scripture reading the typical phone screen is to small for any serious study anyway.  All of my computers are operating on the Windows 8.1 OS and it is far superior to the Windows 7 and platforms that preceded it.  Much faster.  I am quite sure Microsoft will eventually make this the premier OS and with the attitude displayed by Bob and others that the controlling factor for additional development of the Logos software to accommodate the windows phone platform is overall marketshare as opposed to the desire of the Logos client is a flawed approach which will find them in a catch up mode struggling to gain marketshare lots thru timidity.  Like you, I will continue to use my Logos Software on the tools that provide the greatest level of serious study (desktop, laptop and tablet) and use the phone platform for scripture reading using the Lardian and YouVersion apps.. Thanks for your encouraging words and perhaps putting this discussion in it proper perspective.  God bless!

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Don Awalt | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 14 2014 7:24 AM

I am placing this link here only because it describes in great detail Microsoft's elimination of backward compatibility over time that Bob Pritchett mentioned in his post, which makes a software developer think twice about supporting a platform. (This is actually the reason I stopped using Windows phones, my last one was a Windows 6 phone and when they said it would not run Windows 7 even though it was a new phone, I decided that was it - time to stop letting Microsoft obsolete things I have invested in).  

This letter is written by David Sobeski, a former Windows Manager who left Microsoft in 2006. It's long but to those interested it gives insight into the decisions Microsoft made internally through the 2000's.

https://www.facebook.com/dsobeski/posts/10153683440480008

Posts 232
Genghis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 21 2014 1:28 PM

Bob Pritchett:

Richard W. Healy, Jr:
Windows Phone is here to stay.

We aren't dragging our feet at Logos. We're facing the reality that Microsoft dropped the ball / dragged its feet / couldn't put together a coherent strategy. Apple won this one, and Android is getting the scraps. (People who won't pay Apple's price / hate Apple / want to be different / etc.)

There's nothing left for Windows Phone.

But Microsoft has pulled out a win from behind before. If they do it again, we'll be there to support it.

Windows Phone may be here to stay, but it's not a sure bet. To say 'there is no logic in thinking otherwise' is inaccurate. The logic is Windows CE, Pocket PC 2000, Windows Mobile, Windows Mobile 6.5, Windows Phone 7, Windows Phone 7.5, and Windows Phone 8. And Zune. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Mobile for a history of falling market share and confusing / changing / incompatible strategies.

-- Bob

I hear you.  If it's uneconomic for Logos to do it, perhaps Logos might see its way clear to opening up an API to allow third party developers to do one.

Posts 232
Genghis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 21 2014 1:45 PM

Sobeski's comments are informative.  However over the last couple of years there has been a clean out of senior management in MS and things look like they are going to take a new direction. 

Somewhere in MS' roots there was/is a requirement for backwards compatibility, but it got obscured in the shuffle and on some product categories got lost altogether. 

Ironically, it's that backward compatibility that may have hindered its smartphone strategy.  WinMo was just too much like conventional Windows and so didn't migrate well to a small screen format. 

Now MS has gone the other way and tried to bring a touch friendly UI to Windows.  Look at the hue and cry about that. 

Yet, in my experience, with a Win 8 tablet, a WP8 phone and a Win 8 laptop, their current strategy makes a lot of sense. All my data and PIM information is now device agnostic.  Its amusing listening to everything chime for the same appointment around the office, even though I'm using Office on the laptop and desktop, Calendar on the Tablet and Windows Phone.

At a macro level it will only be successful if the huge body of applications can be successfully migrated to the new UI and if the UI can accommodate the miriad of use cases that businesses require.

I think Bob's analysis and decision not to support Windows Phone at this juncture and given his more intimate knowledge of Logos' circumstances, is probably the right one.  Yet there is more than one way to skin the cat, one of which I have mentioned in a separate post to this thread.

Posts 232
Genghis | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 3 2014 5:34 PM

In the meantime, we still need something to accompany us for looking up stuff or to take notes during sermons.

Two possibilities I've found so far in the Windows Phone app store are:

Bible by Lucas:  Simple and elegant design.  Still a work in progress though.

Pocket Bible by Laridian: More comprehensive with resources to purchase.  But then feels like doubling up on my Logos investment.  But then it's no good to me if it isn't with me.

I suppose the other way is to buy an 8" Windows tablet for the job but then that would be a little ostentatious.  ;-)

Posts 81
Ps3 | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 3 2014 2:49 PM

Wow, sorry but I disagree with Bob.  And that's said news to Windows 8 users because he is the President of Logos.  I do believe Windows Phone is here to stay!  At least as long as the iPhone will be around.  As usual Microsoft is late getting up to speed but they are getting there.  Try searching "Failed Apple Products" and you find no shortage of items on that list. And if anyone is trending down other than Blackberry, it's Apple. But no one is saying "let's keep an eye on them" because they to, are here to stay (at least for this generation & perhaps the next). So this is a new era and it seems to us that Microsoft is pretty much on the 'cutting edge' with Windows 8.  We know people don't like change (companies don't like it either) and every time there is a major change people complain but they eventually get on board and after a short time they wonder how they got along without the very thing they complained about. This is a new day in the computer world. Why is it ok to offer iOS & OSX and not a Win 8 & Win App?  Do you really think Windows is going to regress? I don't think so.  Especially when Windows users out number Apple users and windows 8 & App users are cross platform users that over the natural course of Windows time & "history" shows that neither Windows nor its users regress but people adapt. Things these days are more stable then the days of windows CE, palm pilots, Apple Newton, other 'transitional/venture' technologies.  Today cell phones are here to stay and like Microsoft and computers, Windows Phones have now joined the major players.  Doubling their market share from about 2 to 4%.  Not much you say?  Well Apple had less than 6% when Logos started with a computer program for them and still only have about 10% of the computer market today leaving about 90% using Windows & Others.  One more fun fact is that Microsoft sold over 200 million Windows 8 licenses with confirmed registrations since its release.  Compare that to the 250 million who switched to windows 7 in the same amount of time following its release. Anyone with windows 8 will be able to utilize the windows 8 app store. Like me & most of our congregation who seem to have upgraded and many others plan to in the future.   So, I say there's more to this story. This is definitely something to watch...

Interested in this? There's more here... http://community.logos.com/forums/p/67764/582350.aspx#582350 

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Posts 81
Ps3 | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 3 2014 2:55 PM

Thanks for this mini review on these apps.  I plan to give them a try.  I'm always being asked for recommendations.  I also purchased a Surface Pro 2 tablet and it is awesome. Since it's a 'crossover' computer it works well in both Windows 8 modes.  Windows 7 mode & Windows Phone 8/Tablet mode.  It's fantastic!  You might want to give one a look.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 3 2014 5:15 PM

Ps3:
Well Apple had less than 6% when Logos started with a computer program for them and still only have about 10% of the computer market today leaving about 90% using Windows & Others.

Yes... but:

When I was in seminary a few years ago, about 60% of the seminarians were using Mac laptops. Of those who were using windows laptops, most were over 40. Furthermore: Mac users in general spend more on electronics and software than do windows users. There were good, economic reasons for Logos to invest in the platform. Windows phone <might> catch on, but I wouldn't hold your breath. Additionally, iOS isn't just a phone platform, its a tablet platform too. Windows 8 has been an utter failure up to this point. 

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Posts 81
Ps3 | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 3 2014 7:22 PM

 

Yes, that may be true but Logos is not marketing merely to seminarians but to all Bible students.  Investing in the Mac platform was a good idea.  Mac users spend more because all Apple products cost much more.  But that's not even the issue here.  The question is if Windows 8 is a worthwhile platform to invest in. It is not an "utter failure" as you say.  The fact that more than 200 million licenses are in use demonstrates that.  Especially in comparison to the 250 million they had in use for Windows 7.  Though Windows 8 is 50 million less than 7 doesn't mean that it is an utter failure does it? According to my research Windows 7 was considered a huge success for Microsoft. So, 8 isn't that far off especially since people in general resist change and this is major change for Microsoft that actually puts them way ahead of the curve with the W8 concept.  This is revolutionary because Windows has now become a 'one operating system' for all devices. The fact is this is more then just for Windows Phones it's for all windows tablets as well.  Just like iOS it works on all W8 tablets & Phones.  Going forward all Windows enabled devices including Xbox will be utilizing the same base programming platform.  The funny thing is IMHO Logos is thinking today the same way turn of the century Microsoft was thinking. In the computer world a day is as a decade and a decade as a day.  What I mean is that things are always changing for the better. Microsoft today is not the same company as it was in 2006, In those days there was little commonality among cell phones (even iPhone had barely arrived) and tablets were virtually a non issue when things have so drastically changed in the past couple of years.  Windows 8 again IMHO is now the 'operating system standard' to match and taken the whole world by surprise because they changed the rules.  It's a visionary approach to device management.  Ahh if only Apple had of come up with this first. It really is pure genius.  Today an app created for the Windows store can essentially be used on the Windows 8 Phone, W8 Tablets, and YES W8 Laptops, Desktops, & XBOX.  If that's not a worthwhile investment then I just don't know what is. Because Apple MAC's are merely %10 (about 23% of total computing if you include the iPad) of the total computer sales or that 40% of seminarians use them mean that we can't embrace the future of Windows & probably the future of Apple as well all because Microsoft was first?  Keep in mind that 10 years ago there was no iPhone, smart phone, or tablet as they are today. 10 years from now we don't even know what new devices are coming but based on what Microsoft is saying today Windows will be adaptable. I think that Nokia will be around for at the least another decade and Windows will definitely be there.  In the software world you have to strike while the iron is hot and though in the past the iron wasn't hot, but now it is and is getting hotter. What it comes down to is that Logos has to do what they think is best and like most companies profits overall are the main factor which is fine.  But as a Logos fan and a W8.1 user I like sooo many others would like to see Logos be a visionary, step up and embrace this new windows revolution that goes far beyond a phone to a place where "no man has gone before".  If Logos misses this "Window" (no pun intended) of opportunity the customers will be the main ones who loose. We're not greedy, we just want to have what iPad has in the W8 Store.  If Logos had guys working on an app just let them finish what they started.  How about the Vyrso app guys?  Lol, clearly they're not done yet.  The bottom line is I really hope the nay Sayers can get past the 'Phone' aspect and see Windows 8 for what it really is... A total OS Revolution that operates all things Windows.

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Terry Roberts | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 8 2014 2:30 PM

Ah yes, but perhaps the main reason Mac users spend so much is because Apple product are very expensive.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 8 2014 5:53 PM

Terry:

Ah yes, but perhaps the main reason Mac users spend so much is because Apple product are very expensive.

Mac users spend more on tech and update more often. 

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Michael Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 8 2014 8:49 PM

alabama24:

Ps3:
Well Apple had less than 6% when Logos started with a computer program for them and still only have about 10% of the computer market today leaving about 90% using Windows & Others.

Yes... but:

When I was in seminary a few years ago, about 60% of the seminarians were using Mac laptops. Of those who were using windows laptops, most were over 40. Furthermore: Mac users in general spend more on electronics and software than do windows users. There were good, economic reasons for Logos to invest in the platform. Windows phone <might> catch on, but I wouldn't hold your breath. Additionally, iOS isn't just a phone platform, its a tablet platform too. Windows 8 has been an utter failure up to this point. 

I seldom disagree with my good friend from Bama, but to say "Windows 8 has been an utter failure up to this point" is a silly statement, and a false one.  Windows 8 is a great success, and will continue to be so.  I wouldn't swap my Windows 8 Surface Pro 2 for any machine Apple ever made.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 9 2014 3:41 AM

Michael Childs:

I seldom disagree with my good friend from Bama, but to say "Windows 8 has been an utter failure up to this point" is a silly statement, and a false one.  Windows 8 is a great success, and will continue to be so.  I wouldn't swap my Windows 8 Surface Pro 2 for any machine Apple ever made.

Now, now. I didn't mean to get you in a huff. Smile Let me put it this way: Sony came out with Betamax, which was far superior to JVC's VHS. Despite the superiority of the platform, it was an utter failure as a consumer device, We can bicker over win 8 and surface all day... But that was never my point. Up to this point, MSFT does not have a "successful" product. It doesn't matter how "good" the product may be. See these links:

http://www.dailytech.com/Windows+8+Passes+200+Million+Sales+Mark+After+15+Months+Still+Trails+Windows+7/article34336.htm 

http://mashable.com/2014/04/05/microsoft-windows-8-retreat/ 

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Ps3 | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 9 2014 5:13 AM

alabama24:

Michael Childs:

I seldom disagree with my good friend from Bama, but to say "Windows 8 has been an utter failure up to this point" is a silly statement, and a false one.  Windows 8 is a great success, and will continue to be so.  I wouldn't swap my Windows 8 Surface Pro 2 for any machine Apple ever made.

Now, now. I didn't mean to get you in a huff. Smile Let me put it this way: Sony came out with Betamax, which was far superior to JVC's VHS. Despite the superiority of the platform, it was an utter failure as a consumer device, We can bicker over win 8 and surface all day... But that was never my point. Up to this point, MSFT does not have a "successful" product. It doesn't matter how "good" the product may be. See these links: 

Yes, the fact is that if Sony had of sold 200 million Betamax machines everyone would have had one pretty much like windows.  We banter back and forth about Microsoft but it's still Windows we're talking about. Eventually Vista/7/8  will be a part of history like XP.  Also the future of technology has grown to include tablets & cell phones which 10 years ago didn't exist.  So people are making choices bc not everyone can afford to by a tablet & a desktop/laptop.  Also, those who don't like to change don't have to right now unless they have XP and want to.  But like it or not W8 is the transition into the OS future that has set a new standard.  IMHO the W8 pro type tablets all speak to that fact.  Just ask someone who uses one.  And keep in mind that  by trying to maintain Betamax as a private standard, Sony yielded an early marketing lead to JVC, who licensed the VHS standard to all comers. Consequently, VHS recorders were available from more manufacturers for a significantly cheaper price than Betamax recorders. This why they failed and why Microsoft hasn't.  Even the articles you refer to do not call W8 an "utter failure" and by the time you read through the article the tone changes from the questionable reader attracting headline to a more acceptable acknowledging of the facts.  By the way, Sony Betamax machines had a market share of 12% and were made up until as late as 2002 when Sony switch production to increase laser products. I do believe at last count the iPhone had 12-13% and Apple still makes those.Smilies

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 9 2014 7:13 AM

Sure... But the point of this thread isn't about "full windows 8" OS or devices. It's about RT and phones. Speaking to windows 8 directly, it has been a failure, which MSFT looked to  fix in 8.1 and beyond. 

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 9 2014 7:14 AM

About percentages... They are funny things. Looking at profit and total revenue, things look much different for apple. Smile

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