There must be a better way to organize books

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David Roden | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, Jan 11 2014 8:19 PM

What I would like to do is create groups of books using drag and drop. The only way I have found to do that is with collections, but this is very frustrating. Most of the time when I am trying to drag the book I end up opening it instead. Tagging is a very tedious process. It doesn't make sense to me to have to modify the resource just to organize it. Would folders really be that hard to create?

To make matters worse, books I by on Vyrso show up in Logos. So when I look at my books in Vyrso I see everything, not just my Vyrso books. However, on my tablet I don't have access to collections, so I end up searching and searching... to find the book I want. I don't want to do all that searching, I just want to touch it with my finger.

Also, on the tablet the Vyrso and Logos software seem to be identical, and since books are all thrown into on pile, why are these separate products? and now Noet appears to be more of the same?

Folders please? 

Posts 142
David Medina | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 11 2014 8:37 PM

I agree that folders would be very nice addition to Logos.

On the meantime this is what I do that helps me find things quickly: I organize collection by type as well as subject and not just by tagging. That way when I add new books the automatically get added to collections.

Also, in the iPad you can filter books by, for example, title, type, subject, author, etc by

Let say I am looking for my commentaries on Luke. I then enter the following - subject:luke or title:luke

Hope that helps.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 11 2014 8:45 PM

David Roden:
Most of the time when I am trying to drag the book I end up opening it instead. Tagging is a very tedious process. It doesn't make sense to me to have to modify the resource just to organize it.

It is very tedious to drag and drop when you can organise collections via rules that depend on the inbuilt resource data (metadata); which means new resources will be added automatically. Read http://wiki.logos.com/Collections#Creating_Rules and look at the links for example collections.

Dave
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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 11 2014 9:00 PM

David Roden:
Also, on the tablet the Vyrso and Logos software seem to be identical, and since books are all thrown into on pile, why are these separate products? and now Noet appears to be more of the same?

Vyrso is a lean, mean version of Logos intended to be used where your primary need is an e-reader. You can run it on systems where Logos performance would be intolerable.

Logos, Noet and Verbum are all essentially the same product with differing default settings appropriate to the intended market. Over time, there may be more differences - selling under different names allows for this possibility.

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DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 12 2014 12:50 AM

MJ. Smith:

David Roden:
Also, on the tablet the Vyrso and Logos software seem to be identical, and since books are all thrown into on pile, why are these separate products? and now Noet appears to be more of the same?

Vyrso is a lean, mean version of Logos intended to be used where your primary need is an e-reader. You can run it on systems where Logos performance would be intolerable.

Logos, Noet and Verbum are all essentially the same product with differing default settings appropriate to the intended market. Over time, there may be more differences - selling under different names allows for this possibility.

Noet differs greatly from Logos and Verbum.  Noet is actually more like Vyrso.  The only difference is Noet includes a cut down Word Study tool since the focus is on classic original languages study instead of Biblical Language study.  Noet also at this point lacks support for reading plans but I expe t that to change when Noet Desktop is released.

Different branding provides for different entry points different types of customers. For instance some people would not use L5 as they would not see serious Bible study for them, but do read general Christian books - Vyrso provides an alternative to Kindle - a market Logos has made a strategic decision to tap.

Verbum is aimed at the catholic market and over time I expect the app to differentiate more from the Logos app.  And it is providing and entry point for those of catholic faith who would not consider L5 because they view it is Protestant focused.

Noet is another strategic move into a market that is not bible focused.  It is an attempt to break into an academic market that is focused on areas such as the classics, literature and philosophy - the sort of studies you would find in a University Arts department.  There is cross over in the content that will interest a segment of the traditional Logos customer.  For that group the Noet app is not going to offer anything new - but I find it useful to have as a tool to separate some of my general reading projects that are not plan based.

 lf the different apps like Vyrso looked at only Vyrso books - but then that would exclude people who become a customer through the Vryso site to adding the odd full Logos book to their library.

If we think about this only as a user of the full Logos product then you only need the Logos app but may opt to use the others as you see useful.  But if you think about it as business strategy and branding to reach different markets the different apps make a lot more sense.

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toughski | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 12 2014 1:50 AM

David, welcome to the Forums.

let me address your questions first:

David Roden:
Most of the time when I am trying to drag the book I end up opening it instead.

1. See my RED arrows. Opening of resource results if you click on the Cover, or Title of the book. DON'T click there if you want to drag

2. Instead you can click anywhere BUT the Cover, or Title of the book - in this example Last Updated or My Tags, or literally anywhere (BLUE arrows)

you can also select multiple resources using either Shift or Ctrl

David Roden:
Tagging is a very tedious process. It doesn't make sense to me to have to modify the resource just to organize it.

3. adding tags (GREEN ARROWS) essentially create "Virtual folders" that can be displayed by clicking on My Tags heading in the Library. This is not modifying resources in any way. What I found best FOR ME is that I tag all new resources with a tag, and by me doing this Logos automatically creates a "folder" or a collection for me. I can literally select hundreds of resources at once (either by clicking and dragging or by using search, etc) and tag them all at once.

David Roden:
To make matters worse, books I by on Vyrso show up in Logos. So when I look at my books in Vyrso I see everything, not just my Vyrso books. However, on my tablet I don't have access to collections, so I end up searching and searching... to find the book I want. I don't want to do all that searching, I just want to touch it with my finger.

Your post Heading is not very clear. Logos has better than average system for organizing books. However, from the body of the post it seems that you want better or easier ACCESS to resources in your Library. I agree, Logos is VERY weak in this area. There is a clear need for several VIEWS of our Libraries, especially on the mobile devices.

Posts 9
David Roden | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 12 2014 12:08 PM

Is it possible to create that says "Books purchased this month?" or "Books purchased via Vyrso?"

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 12 2014 12:11 PM

David Roden:

Is it possible to create that says "Books purchased this month?" or "Books purchased via Vyrso?"

a) only if you tag them with purchasing dates (some users do)

b) easy: filter the library for edition:e

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

Posts 9
David Roden | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 12 2014 12:16 PM

So users have to struggle with the inability to organize books for the sake of Logos branding? How about separate libraries for each app? I wasn't a Vyrso customer but took advantage of some of the special offers they sent me (I guess Logos assumed I also wanted to be a Vyrso customer) and now find out that I can't separate those books from the Logos books. Is there a source:Vyrso or purchased:today search option?

Posts 9
David Roden | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 12 2014 12:25 PM

Thanks for the detailed reply. I'll try to remember to click in the non-obvious places when dragging. Tagging would be helpful if I can bulk-tag (which I know how to do) but this assumes I can find the books in the first place.Also, tagging is only a first level organizing tool. How would I create sub-tags / folders?

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 12 2014 12:31 PM

David Roden:
I wasn't a Vyrso customer but took advantage of some of the special offers they sent me (I guess Logos assumed I also wanted to be a Vyrso customer) and now find out that I can't separate those books from the Logos books. Is there a source:Vyrso

like I wrote above: this search option is edition:e - maybe you want to check http://wiki.logos.com/Library__ for more details how to use your Library to search and filter for books.

David Roden:
purchased:today search option?

not until you tag. There is an approximation of this by sorting the library after last updated, but this will also bring updates that were not purchases (e.g. self built books [PB], updates of your existing resources for new cross-refernces and typo correction) - you'll find this with screenshots in the wiki link I gave above

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

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DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 12 2014 2:27 PM

David Roden:

So users have to struggle with the inability to organize books for the sake of Logos branding? How about separate libraries for each app? I wasn't a Vyrso customer but took advantage of some of the special offers they sent me (I guess Logos assumed I also wanted to be a Vyrso customer) and now find out that I can't separate those books from the Logos books. Is there a source:Vyrso or purchased:today search option?

 

I'm not sure how branding really causes an issue with organizing your library.  As NB.Mick has indicated you can filter your library for Vyrso books if you want.  Could there be better tools, yes I agree with you but I see no point in being forced to use different applications to access different segments library - I'd rather have access to all my resources in one library and use the different mobile apps as I see fit.

Logos offering different branding is a good thing.  It allows for expansion of the customer base into market segments they might not otherwise appeal to if they restricted operations to the one brand. A healthy growing business is a good thing for us as customers - whether you see it or not.  

There are improvements to the library being tested in the current beta - will they get you or I where we would like to be ? No but they are an indication Logos is listening, and are taking incremental steps to a better solution. 

Please keep giving feedback on practical ideas on how this aspect of the program can be improved, just don't expect the perfect solution tomorrow.

Posts 824
GregW | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 12 2014 2:28 PM

David Roden:

Tagging would be helpful if I can bulk-tag (which I know how to do) but this assumes I can find the books in the first place.Also, tagging is only a first level organizing tool. How would I create sub-tags / folders?

Hi David and welcome to the forums. 

Matches of tags work on partial matches so you could, for example, use the method I use.  If we take apologetics books as an example, all my apologetics books are tagged "Apologetics".  I then append more granularity to this at the send of the tag, so for Apologetics, for example, I might have "Apologetics - classical". I also use this method for my studies.  So at the moment I am doing an MA, and all the books on my reading list I tag with the name of the college, and I then append a hyphen with the course number.  As I tag all my books as "TOREAD", Reading" or "Finished" I can then filter for all the unread books for a particular course. 

Picking up on your point about identifying rcwnt purchases, you can actually sort your library by the "Last Updated" field.  In the library view, go across to the "Last Updated" field in the desktop app and click on it, thereby bringing the most recently-updated books to the top of your view.  This does also put books that you have redownloaded or which Logos has updated at the top of the view but it works pretty well.  

The latest beta also has an enhancement that presents the tags as hyperlinks, making it easier to select all books with a particular tag. 


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abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 12 2014 2:29 PM

NB Actually I believe you can create a collection based upon when a book was updated... IE

Updated:1/12/2013

The only caveat is if I download a bunch of books today, my computer crashes, or I uninstall and reinstall Logos tomorrow, the "updated" field will be reset on all my titles to whatever that date is.

IE if I download a book today 1/12/2014 and my computer crashes tonight, then I reinstall Logos tomorrow, the last time the file would have been updated would now be 1/13/2014 and so you lose some information. But by then hopefully you've already sorted your titles into a more useful setup.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 12 2014 3:14 PM

David Roden:
Also, tagging is only a first level organizing tool. How would I create sub-tags / folders?

A single tag can be hierarchical when used with hyphens e.g. interlinear--N.T. can be queried as mytag:interlinear (for all interlinear bibles) or mytag:interlinear--N.T. (for NT or NT only interlinears). A tag interlinear--N.T.--interlinear--O.T.** (both NT and OT) can be queried as mytag:interlinear--O.T.  The Subject field for commentaries contains similar information e.g. for a study on the book of Joshua

type:commentary  subject:(o.t.joshua, bible--commentaries, o.t.commentaries)

where bible--commentaries includes all NT and OT books, o.t.commentaries includes the OT books only, and o.t.joshua includes commentaries on Joshua (or a few select books along with Joshua).

.

.

** can be entered as two tags interlinear--N.T. and interlinear--O.T. but is queried the same way.

Dave
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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 12 2014 6:56 PM

David Roden:
Tagging would be helpful if I can bulk-tag (which I know how to do)

To bulk tag, select all resources, then click Add Tag:

Followed by entering desired tag:

Pressed <Tab> key to complete tag entry so selected resources were updated:

Thankful for 638 free Vyrso resouces since Thanksgiving 2011.  Mytag filter can specify leading part:

"Real & True" collection includes Vryso resources by filtering title.

David Roden:
Also, tagging is only a first level organizing tool. How would I create sub-tags / folders?

A collection can be included or excluded.  For example, "Bible Background" collection includes four collections while excluding one:

Library information shows all collections for a resource: e.g. "Ancient Near East Texts Relating to the Old Testament" is in 12 collections.

Wiki has => http://wiki.logos.com/Example_Collections with many examples.  If join Faithlife group Logos Collections, can copy Collections by clicking Get Copy to the right of the desired collection followed by synchronizing Logos.  Noticed 300 collections are currently shared that use Logos metadata tagging and titles for collection rules (with some manually added resources).

Keep Smiling Smile

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toughski | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 13 2014 8:53 AM

Dave, while your reply is helpful, it just highlights the problem:

Logos is a HUGE library. And I don't think the company thought it through of how to make it very usable.

Imagine you walk into a small community paperbook library and you need to find a resource that you don't know by name (or forgot). You are simply given a Rolodex (this is what we essentially got on mobile devices).

If Logos builds the whole infrastructure to access their resources on mobile devices, they MUST make Library management their first priority (unless, of course their internal statistics show that average users have 5 books and never really need it Devil)

the "spreadsheet" view in Logos Desktop, while useful for tagging is a BAD view for finding resources. What would be more helpful is nested folders.

Logos can start by mimicking what they do on the website and presenting a user with:

View your Library by
   Author
   Topic
   Genre
   Publisher
   Language, etc. and then provide subcategories, both built-in and using User's mytags

For Example

My Whole Library
   Topic
      Theology
         Soteriology
            Adoption
            Atonement
            Arminianism, Calvinism, etc.

for tagging personal Library I found inspiration from these 2 sites:

http://www.desiringgod.org/all-resources/by-topic

http://thegospelcoalition.org/resources/topic-index/

Here is an amazing article by about managing a Personal Library:

http://www.reformation21.org/articles/organizing-a-personal-theological-library.php

Posts 9
David Roden | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 13 2014 9:57 AM

First, thanks to everyone for the detailed replies and all of the helps that were provided. The community support here is wonderful. I am already doing a little better.

It seems that many of you have found ways to adapt Logos' limited organizational tools to suit your needs. I hope that future versions of Logos will provide the basic tools for organization that are clearly missing - in addition to the tagging that many of you seem to love. For me, I am working towards eliminating most of my hard copy library and converting to digital. Better organization tools are essential if I'm going to continue on this quest.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 13 2014 10:08 AM

I agree David. Smile

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toughski | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 13 2014 10:23 AM

my follow-up question to the group is: Is it possible to organize your non-Logos Christian library (books, pdfs, sermon MP3s, videos, etc.) using Favorites? Does Favorites functionality work well for this purpose?

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