There must be a better way to organize books

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This post has 37 Replies | 4 Followers

Posts 142
David Medina | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 13 2014 10:43 AM

I would not like to separate my Vyrso and Logos books. 

There are books in Logos that I can and would prefer to read in Vyrso. And I find nice that I can search books bought in Vyrso on my Logos system. 

Think of it this way, in your home you do not have separate libraries but just one because you want to go to one place to look for ALL your resources. Same thing with Logos library. 

This is what I do when I purchase new stuff from Logos. Once Logos end downloading and installing the resource I right away go and tag those new books. I love collections because they are dynamic, sort of smart folders.

Also, all your books that you buy through Vyrso are classified (I believe) as monographs so search by type:monograph and you will see those books that are appropriate for Vyrso vs Logos.

Posts 408
Ken Shawver | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 13 2014 10:49 AM

David, initially it may be tedious but using suggestions already provided will make long time use much easier to deal with. The Metadata is a real nice way to group. I started by drag-and-drop and found it annoying as well. For a small number of items it is fine, but the Metadata is great. Also taking time as you have it to do Mytag coding makes things even better.

In Christ,

Ken

Dell Studio 1555; 15.6 True Life LCD; Intel Core 2 Duo T6600 2.20 GHz, 2M Cache, 800 MHz FSB ; 500GB 5400 HDD; 8GB RAM, Win 10, Chrome 70

http://wiki.logos.com/

Posts 50
Martin Horn | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 13 2014 10:57 AM

I am going to reply to the original post and this will probably end up as a rant. I also have a not found a satisfactory intuitive way to organize books. I want folders that I can label, then graphically put the books I want into that folder.  I don't know if it is possible, but that seems to be the way I would be able to organize the books simply and quickly.  I have tried some of the other things, but I don't really understand them, and I still have a library that is one big pile of books.

Posts 4917
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 13 2014 11:23 AM

Martin Horn:

I am going to reply to the original post and this will probably end up as a rant. I also have a not found a satisfactory intuitive way to organize books. I want folders that I can label, then graphically put the books I want into that folder.  I don't know if it is possible, but that seems to be the way I would be able to organize the books simply and quickly.  I have tried some of the other things, but I don't really understand them, and I still have a library that is one big pile of books.

You can take this approach now - in a limited way.  Open a library window and collections window side by side create a collections folder and drag books from library into collection folder.  In your library window you can then filter it by the collections you have created.  Personally I prefer to tag resources and use rules that build dynamic collections, but if you prefer a drag and drop approach it can be done.

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 13 2014 11:52 AM

Martin Horn:

I want folders that I can label, then graphically put the books I want into that folder.  I don't know if it is possible, but that seems to be the way I would be able to organize the books simply and quickly.  I have tried some of the other things, but I don't really understand them, and I still have a library that is one big pile of books.

I think this can be done with favorites and some user have done it this way (I seem to remember some screenshots). I don't know whether there are limits to nesting and depth and how this works regarding perfomance over thousands of books, though.

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 13 2014 1:13 PM

Martin Horn:
I also have a not found a satisfactory intuitive way to organize books.

There is a reason that librarians have lots of education. You are looking for a needle that never was in the haystack. I understand the desire for a graphic interface - I think a number of people would find it easier. However, tags are a more generic solution for those with large libraries and well worth the effort to learn to use. Just think of a folder title as equivalent to 1 tag.

Now to tag your library:

1. Create a collection - name as you would your folder.

2. Drag and drop the books you want in the folder from the library. (Note: you can start with a metadata rule and add and subtract titles if you prefer).

3. Close the collection pane.

4. In the library pane, filter by collection.

5. Select all and add the tag/collection name.

6. Create or modify the collection to be controlled by the new tag i.e. use only the rule definition mytag:<tag> where the tag name is equal to your virtual folder title.

That may not be the best of all possible solutions - but it is workable when you get your mind around it.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 13 2014 5:05 PM

toughski:

For Example

My Whole Library
   Topic
      Theology
         Soteriology
            Adoption
            Atonement
            Arminianism, Calvinism, etc.

I just took two minutes to generate this as favorite folders:

 

Those who like to organize by drag and drop: it works.

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

Posts 2811
Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 13 2014 7:05 PM

Dave Hooton:
It is very tedious to drag and drop when you can organise collections via rules that depend on the inbuilt resource data (metadata)

Dave is very, very right.

Take it from someone who had to learn a few things the hard way: If you drag-and-drop to create your collections, you WILL later regret it.

Use the collection rules...they are excellent at helping organize the library. There are several Faithlife groups dedicated to various kinds of collection rules. (I even started one myself.) Give them a look.

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 13 2014 10:24 PM

Martin Horn:
I also have a not found a satisfactory intuitive way to organize books. I want folders that I can label, then graphically put the books I want into that folder.  I don't know if it is possible, but that seems to be the way I would be able to organize the books simply and quickly.

Logos alternative to a folder is a collection.  A rule can be used to add many resources.

Biography rule includes title search for "Life of" that includes a false positive.  Hence, can use drag and drop to remove resource from collection (or modify rule).  Also noticed Libary search for biography found a resource not included by rule so used drag and drop to add it:

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 8893
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 16 2014 12:25 AM

David Roden:
What I would like to do is create groups of books using drag and drop.

David Roden:
Tagging is a very tedious process.

I find these two statements contradictory. Dragging-and-dropping is by far the most tedious way of grouping books. I can tag 10 books in the time it takes to drag 1.

Learn to use filtering and sorting effectively. For a particular author, use author:xyz, and/or click on the author column. For a commentary on Acts, type Acts, sort by Type, and expand the Bible Commentary section. And so on. This is actually far more versatile than folders. With folders, you either have to drag the same book to multiple folders, or you have to remember that John Doe's books are split between four different topical folders.

Of course, tags make it even more versatile, as they free you from being dependent on the metadata Logos provides. 

MJ. Smith:
Now to tag your library:

1. Create a collection - name as you would your folder.

2. Drag and drop the books you want in the folder from the library. (Note: you can start with a metadata rule and add and subtract titles if you prefer).

3. Close the collection pane.

4. In the library pane, filter by collection.

5. Select all and add the tag/collection name.

6. Create or modify the collection to be controlled by the new tag i.e. use only the rule definition mytag:<tag> where the tag name is equal to your virtual folder title.

Now, that would indeed be a tedious way of tagging! Why on earth are you making something simple that complicated?Surprise

Just use click>shift-click and click>Cmd-click (I guess that's Ctrl in Windows) to select books in the Library, and then tag them right then and there (10-20 at a time, so you don't lose to much work it you accidentally lose the selection). Use filters to find the most likely ones for the tag you're presently working on.

No dragging needed. Nor do you need to make a collection. All mytags already show up in the Collection dropdown in Library, Search etc.

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 16 2014 1:25 AM

fgh:
Why on earth are you making something simple that complicated?Surprise

Because the OP indicated he had trouble getting their mind around the idea of tagging ... and this puts tagging into his drag-and-drop mindset.Stick out tongue

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 9
David Roden | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 16 2014 6:00 AM

Thanks for the reply. 

In the searching scenario you describe, I am required to learn a syntax to find anything, and as mentioned in prior posts, there are limits to what this searching method can do (such as "find all the books I purchased last month"). When compared to drag and drop - which is a concept supported in most document-oriented software - what could be simpler? I don't want to be a librarian, I just want to arrange my books like I would with hard copy on my bookshelves, in a way that is meaningful to me. No coding/tagging required. I just put the book on the shelf and I'm done. nothing tedious or contradictory about it.

Posts 10120
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 16 2014 6:32 AM

I suspect much of the issue relates to Logos4 defaulting to a large stack of books.  And four years later, oddly enough, it's still a large stack of books. The user must remember how to segregate the books (clicking on the right heading and then scrolling, typing in the right syntax, etc).

And as David notes, the distance from the large stack of books to an organized stack, each day, is a pain.  It's much more obvious on the iOS system where Logos solved a problem with 1980s typing, only to (again) face the march of time.  Always catching up.

Whether folders are a solution, I don't know. In the MP3 world, the solution was 'lists' plus attributes (similar to tagging).  I refused to budge, liking the original albums (folders). So, some of my MP3 players are literally buggy as they try to battle me with my albums.

The new Logos iOS versions to me are getting worse (on this subject); a month ago the default opening was to a book I was reading (good). Now it's to the large stack of books (not good).  So I have to keep the stack of books in 'recent' order to quickly start reading.  Logos is always adding steps.

Logos really needs to come to grips with the large libraries.  Experts might love it.  Librarians like my mother.


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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 16 2014 7:03 AM

David Roden:

 I just want to arrange my books like I would with hard copy on my bookshelves, in a way that is meaningful to me. No coding/tagging required. I just put the book on the shelf and I'm done. nothing tedious or contradictory about it.

David,

you are free to do this and this thread shows you that Logos actually supports two ways of using a drag-an-drop approach to manage your books: collections and favorites. Collections show in the library and may used in searches, whereas favorites give more of the folder-tree look you conceptually remember.

Both of them support (which makes them better than a physical bookshelf), multi-layered levels of organization plus putting one book into several places where it belongs. So, go ahead and drag-and-drop as you wish.

You may always go on and learn library search syntax when you feel the time is right for it (not much harder than google search syntax) and combine with the collection approach when you want to build dynamic rules later.

Mick 

 

 

 

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

Posts 2811
Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 17 2014 10:42 AM

At some risk of sounding facetious, which I'm not, I'll take a stab at this.

David Roden:
I just put the book on the shelf and I'm done.

If this is REALLY what's most important to you, I recommend you return the software and get your money back, and invest in hard-copy books. (Again, I'm not being a smart-aleck, I'm pointing out what seems to be important to the OP.)

David Roden:
I just want to arrange my books like I would with hard copy on my bookshelves, in a way that is meaningful to me

These aren't hard copy books, and there are no shelves in the CPU. Using the tools in software like Logos means we have a choice: either it requires us to adapt our ways of organizing things, or lose some (much) of the power inherent in the software. Doing what you want is possible, and how to do that has been explained, but my earlier point about later regretting it is still valid, even if not appreciated.

David Roden:
I am required to learn a syntax to find anything

Yep. You are. I'm guessing you've adapted to google searches, how to order at a fast food window, how to fill out a 4473 form, etc. Learning basic search syntax, collection rules, etc., is no different, and is the cost of getting the computer to do all the heavy lifting for you. There's a lot of power in the syntax. Finding a book in a stack, or a series of folders, no matter how well organized, is not as easy as typing 'open sproul holiness of god' into the command box, and getting to the folder with his books is not easier than clicking the Open Collections button and choosing Author: RC Sproul from the dropdown.

Once again, I'm not trying to be facetious or patronizing, even though the tone may sound a bit like it, completely unintended. I'm simply trying to help you see the importance of using the software in the way it is written instead beating your head against a virtual brick wall.

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

Posts 142
David Medina | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 17 2014 9:47 PM

Logos already has folders. They are called collections and Favorites.

"Favorites in Logos are like favorites that you add in Internet Explorer or other browser programs. It allows you to store locations to resources. As with favorites in your browser you can create Folders and organize your favorites. You can save Bible study resources, clippings, layout and such for a particular Bible study in a named folder."  http://wiki.logos.com/Favorites#What_are_Favorites.3f

Folders inside Logos would just another way of seeing tags. 

Collections are dynamic folders. Here is the rationale: http://wiki.logos.com/A_Rationale_for_Dynamic_Collections 

Here is a great video by Mark Barnes on Library Management: http://www.logosbiblesoftwaretraining.com/videos/managing-your-content/

The real issue is that they need to be seen in the mobile app even when not connected to the web. 

Posts 1281
toughski | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 18 2014 1:13 AM

David Medina:
The real issue is that they need to be seen in the mobile app even when not connected to the web.

yes, yes, yes!

Posts 149
Timothy Brown | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 18 2014 1:07 PM

toughski:

Here is an amazing article by about managing a Personal Library:

http://www.reformation21.org/articles/organizing-a-personal-theological-library.php

Thanks for this link! Naselli recommends using Zotero to organize both "dead tree" and electronic resources in one place. I would like to have all my resources in Logos, but it seems unlikely that that will ever happen. For now, I use commentaries in Logos, in other Bible software, in Kindle, in downloaded pdf, and in print format. Zotero lets me see everything I have, e.g., on Romans, in one place. Very helpful, for me at least.

Windows 8.1 64-bit, Core i5-3330, 8GB RAM

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