Sudden drop in bids in Community Pricing.

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Tim Hensler | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Jan 22 2014 2:25 PM

A few days ago "The Bible in Seven Acts, with Slides (7 vols.)" was up to about 85%.  It had been steadily rising since it was added to Community Pricing, but today I checked and it was down to about 55%.  Any idea what happened?  Seems strange that it would suddenly drop so far.  Is there a problem with the graph or do a lot of people know something I don't know?  The graph line seems to have the same contour across the prices as it had before, except they are all lower.

https://www.logos.com/product/29691/the-bible-in-seven-acts-with-slides 

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ChelseaFC | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 22 2014 2:30 PM

Great observation and good question.

Chelsea FC- Today is a good day!

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abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 22 2014 2:37 PM

My guess would be that one of three things happened: 1. lots of people cancelled their bid, 2. The cost of the resource increased as it was over budget, and 3. some combination of the previous two options.

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Posts 6312
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 22 2014 3:59 PM

It's up to somewhere between 58% and 59% so it has increased 3 1/2 to 4% more Geeked

Anyway, my take on it, it's too expensive.  Mr. Bob pointed out they had full time researchers writing these "Lexham Projects" and he also mentioned the fact that not many people are full time writers.  He mentioned this because most people complain that the Lexham guides are too expensive.  He said they were trying to find ways to lower the cost and one of the ways was to put several of the guides and other Lexham projects in Community Pricing.  You want my honest opinion on this whole Lexham guides and Bible in Seven Acts? Probably not, and I know Logos may not want to hear this, but I think this whole thing backfired on them.  The reason not many people are jumping in is because Logos is selling them too expensive.  Yes, they have hired full time research staff to write these materials, but hey, why do we have to pay too much for (what I call) a side project that is pretty much not giving them much profit.  Could it be that the software is no longer giving them enough profit or could it be that they want more and more? I guess we might never know, but to me it's plain and simple: This project backfired on them and now they don't know what to do to actually fund it -- well, yes they do know -- have us users pay high prices to pay for their project.

Now, just to clarify, I'm not bashing anybody, but let's be realistic, for a series of guides that will end up being more expensive than NICOT/NT at regular price without discount - I don't think that's gonna sell too much.  I love the guides and the format, but it's too expensive to write about what others have written when that's pretty much what we regular users do anyway -- we build our lessons any way we want including what so and so's commentaries say and get practical applications.  Plus, there's exegetical summaries which pretty much gives you a brief summary of what others say so you can draw your conclusions.  The concept of the guides is good, but that's why we have Logos Bible Software anyway.  We want to do our research and the software already saves us time.  If the purpose of the guides is to do the research for us with the various takes on certain subjects by different commentators, then Logos should just stop selling the software and focus on selling the guides which pretty much have already done the research work for us; but then again, it doesn't matter how hard they try, there will always be stones unturned and we'll still need to do our own research.  Commendable concept on the guides, but we're already doing that in our own way/format - we don't need someone to do the research for us and then on top of that pay high prices.  Again, I'm not bashing anybody, but the reality is that some projects won't work and may backfire on people making them lose money.  Why do you think Logos didn't include them in base packages, because they know base packages sales would drop if Logos took away other important resources to stick they're own so they could fund their project.  Anyway, I'm not a business person, but I think this one was not a good business call for Logos.

Blessings!

DAL

Posts 10111
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 22 2014 4:22 PM

Glad you clarified, DAL. That first paragraph seemed a bit 'bash-y' but the second one toned it up a bit.


Posts 6312
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 22 2014 4:24 PM

Denise:

Glad you clarified, DAL. That first paragraph seemed a bit 'bash-y' but the second one toned it up a bit.

Stick out tongue Wink Don't mention it! hehehe

Posts 8967
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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 22 2014 5:28 PM

DAL:
Anyway, I'm not a business person, but I think this one was not a good business call for Logos.

I don't think Logos looks to the forums for business advice.  At least I hope they don't! Surprise

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 6312
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 22 2014 6:12 PM

Super.Tramp:

DAL:
Anyway, I'm not a business person, but I think this one was not a good business call for Logos.

I don't think Logos looks to the forums for business advice.  At least I hope they don't! Surprise

LOL I wasn't giving any business advice, I was simply stating what I think and that is: "I think this one was not a good business call for Logos." They've been in business for a long time, but it's obvious something is not working out as expected with the Lexham guides and the Bible in Seven Acts resources.  Add to that the fact that they hired full time research staff to do the writing on those and they have to pay them without any profit coming in.  Just my thoughts, that's why I said some of you or even Logos may not want to hear it, but I just stated them anyway. Wink

Let's look at the bright side: Logos has made so much money that I'm sure they knew the risks when they decided to jump on what I call "The Lexham Project." I'm sure they had some extra money to spare to give this a try and if it doesn't work out, at least some great material was written, even though users might never get to see that material since it's too expensive to buy (unless it gets included in future base packages without removing precious content).  I hope Logos can pull it off some time in the future and be able to have money to fund this all the way and sell it at a cheaper price, but as it is right now, they're gonna have to eat up the costs (which I'm sure it won't hurt them with all the money they've made).  Is not like Logos is a small company, they may not seem big, but they are - with all the people working for them and stuff.

Anyway, enough said. Geeked

Posts 5248
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 22 2014 7:52 PM

It gets very frustrating when that bar goes backward, at one point last week there was just a sliver left in 

Eerdmans Commentary Collection (13 vols.)

But not there seems to be a huge gap.. ugh... at least it is still labeled in yellow rather than red.

-Dan

Posts 1690
LogosEmployee
Bob Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 22 2014 8:38 PM

DAL:
Probably not, and I know Logos may not want to hear this, but I think this whole thing backfired on them.

See, that's the beauty of Pre-Pub and Community Pricing. Things don't backfire on us (usually!), because we don't make the investment in production until we have enough orders to ensure we can cover our costs. Fortunately the people we hired are versatile, and can work on many different projects. (Nobody is sitting around idle waiting for pre-orders to come in!)

We do make an up-front in investment in prototyping and designing these projects, but that's a small portion of the complete production costs of writing things from scratch.

DAL:
Anyway, I'm not a business person, but I think this one was not a good business call for Logos.

I'm actually quite happy with these projects -- because some of them are getting enough orders to be funded, and even when they aren't (or it's happening slowly) we're learning about what you want, and how to serve you better, which is good for staying in business! I tell people all the time that if we aren't seeing a lot of failures, we aren't trying enough new things. Proposing projects and soliciting pre-orders lets us try lots of things while keeping the cost of failure as low as possible. It's good for all of us! :-)

-- Bob

Posts 748
Tim Hensler | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 22 2014 9:18 PM

Bob Pritchett:
I'm actually quite happy with these projects

Hi Bob,

Iike these projects too.  Can you comment on why this one had such a big drop in progress?  I've been waiting a long time for this one.  The setback is a bit discouraging.

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Bob Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 22 2014 9:20 PM

Tim Hensler:
Can you comment on why this one had such a big drop in progress?

I don't know, but will try to find who does... (I'm guessing a re-estimate of the time involved based on continued prototyping.)

Posts 748
Tim Hensler | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 23 2014 4:16 AM

Thank you, Bob.

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Posts 2393
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 23 2014 5:50 AM

Bob Pritchett:

I'm actually quite happy with these projects -- because some of them are getting enough orders to be funded, and even when they aren't (or it's happening slowly) we're learning about what you want, and how to serve you better, which is good for staying in business! 

I placed a bid so that I could express my thoughts.  There is no way I would pay $75 for any of these [the 'list' price] nor would I pay $50 the 'current' going bid.  But I might buy them for $10 each so I bid $50.   I KNOW that I will never get them at that price but that is what they would be worth to me.

[Posted for the right to state what I want]

Posts 1210
Mike Tourangeau | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 23 2014 9:09 AM

Tim Hensler:

A few days ago "The Bible in Seven Acts, with Slides (7 vols.)" was up to about 85%.  It had been steadily rising since it was added to Community Pricing, but today I checked and it was down to about 55%.  Any idea what happened?  Seems strange that it would suddenly drop so far.  Is there a problem with the graph or do a lot of people know something I don't know?  The graph line seems to have the same contour across the prices as it had before, except they are all lower.

https://www.logos.com/product/29691/the-bible-in-seven-acts-with-slides 

Man this is disappointing! I still think this idea is the greatest idea....price could use some work, but these types of resources are very very smart

Posts 1210
Mike Tourangeau | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 23 2014 9:11 AM

Bob Pritchett:

Tim Hensler:
Can you comment on why this one had such a big drop in progress?

I don't know, but will try to find who does... (I'm guessing a re-estimate of the time involved based on continued prototyping.)

Please let us know...I am very much interested in these sets

Posts 8967
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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 23 2014 11:12 AM

DAL:
Anyway, enough said. Geeked

Ya' think?

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Posts 81
Daniel R. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 23 2014 12:24 PM

Hey Bob, I really like this quote from you, "...I tell people all the time that if we aren't seeing a lot of failures, we aren't trying enough new things." !

I'm gonna print it out and hang on my office wall as proof positive that I'm trying a WHOLE LOTTA new things!

May the Lord bless you and keep you.

Posts 4905
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 23 2014 1:30 PM

Mike Tourangeau:

Tim Hensler:

A few days ago "The Bible in Seven Acts, with Slides (7 vols.)" was up to about 85%.  It had been steadily rising since it was added to Community Pricing, but today I checked and it was down to about 55%.  Any idea what happened?  Seems strange that it would suddenly drop so far.  Is there a problem with the graph or do a lot of people know something I don't know?  The graph line seems to have the same contour across the prices as it had before, except they are all lower.

https://www.logos.com/product/29691/the-bible-in-seven-acts-with-slides 

Man this is disappointing! I still think this idea is the greatest idea....price could use some work, but these types of resources are very very smart

I think part of the problem in terms of getting this project over the line is people's expectations of community pricing.  This is possibly the most expensive title on offer in the history of community pricing, if not one of the most.  People generally do not associate a title / series in this price range as a community pricing title and they are expecting it to be a public domain work so may well pass over it thinking $400 for public domain ?  No way I'm not paying that.... I'd like to see this series pushed on a blog posting again with some real fanfare about what it is offering the customer, maybe even a short video from one of the editors or the like talking about the project, why they are excited about it, what the vision for the project is etc.   Not cheezy razzle dazzle promotion but genuine passion and belief in the project on display, it's being languishing in community pricing for a while now .

Posts 6312
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 24 2014 5:51 PM

Bob Pritchett:

DAL:
Probably not, and I know Logos may not want to hear this, but I think this whole thing backfired on them.

See, that's the beauty of Pre-Pub and Community Pricing. Things don't backfire on us (usually!), because we don't make the investment in production until we have enough orders to ensure we can cover our costs. Fortunately the people we hired are versatile, and can work on many different projects. (Nobody is sitting around idle waiting for pre-orders to come in!)

We do make an up-front in investment in prototyping and designing these projects, but that's a small portion of the complete production costs of writing things from scratch.

DAL:
Anyway, I'm not a business person, but I think this one was not a good business call for Logos.

I'm actually quite happy with these projects -- because some of them are getting enough orders to be funded, and even when they aren't (or it's happening slowly) we're learning about what you want, and how to serve you better, which is good for staying in business! I tell people all the time that if we aren't seeing a lot of failures, we aren't trying enough new things. Proposing projects and soliciting pre-orders lets us try lots of things while keeping the cost of failure as low as possible. It's good for all of us! :-)

-- Bob

Well, I'm glad it's working out and that you are happy with the projects.  The only thing is I (most of us) wished it didn't take so long to have access to the material and we wished it wasn't so expensive either (Maybe rent out what's available?).  Other than that, aside from the projects, I think (for now) I will stick with your software to do my own research.  I'd rather save my pennies and do upgrades as finances allow than pay high prices for other works that, in a sense, require me to own other expensive works to finish seeing what they have to say about a subject. Thanks!

Blessings!

DAL

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