Theological Journals Update

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 18 2014 10:10 AM

Mark Barnes:
Bob posted a very detailed explanation back in December: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/79180/555777.aspx#555777 

Well I saw nothing in Bob's post about the TLJ. That is what I am referring to, not his decision to bring everything in-house. Something about that process and the TLJ didn't work and we have heard nothing about what is being done or what has been done to make that right. Silence. Hampton's email was the first time I learned he is continuing his efforts.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 2829
Don Awalt | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 18 2014 10:15 AM

Thanks for the updates Phil, this is very encouraging news. I am glad you are sensitive to the timeliness of the journals, quality of tagging, and cost - that's all we can ask. I am hopefully awaiting more news on this, as like many here I get SO MUCH out of the journals Logos has provided me in the past!

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 18 2014 10:17 AM

Phil Gons:

Mark and all,

While future versions of Galaxie's TJL won't be available in Logos, that doesn't mean the journals included in Galaxie products won't be. We're now working directly with the journal owners and hope to offer everything in TJL—and much more. Journals are a big focus for us right now. Our plan is to still give you access to all the great journal content you've come to love from Galaxie. There's no need to move to another platform or for Galaxie to publish through Vyrso.

Thank you for that encouragement. You know as a user that we'd like these produced in timely fashion. While we can't have them the month they are published, waiting two or more years after the last issue has been published for a year isn't what we want.

What is the timeline for this? My most recent BibSac is 2011. That is two years ago. I sure would like up-to-date resources even if in the interim they were the less-than-perfect Galaxie versions.

The offer right now is $100 to get everything Galaxie published as an upgrade when moving to another platform. That is only two years of annual upgrade pricing. If Logos can't get caught up soon, it really may be worth some of us jumping ship.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 1978
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 18 2014 10:29 AM

I also got the email.

I got started with Logos via Galaxie Journals.  They have always been the most important part of the Library for me.  I have never had issues with tagging or quality.  I have read what I needed and wanted to read.  They have been a big part of my research.

Like others, I have not purchased other software, hoping to have all in Logos. But as Logos changes over the years (for a variety of reasons), so also the consumer changes.  Logos needs to always be rethinking their business model just as the consumer needs to always be rethinking his purchasing options.

I understand Logos has decided to go it alone.  Perhaps in the long run, it will prove to be a wise decision.  And perhaps it will not.

Posts 20
Gilles Despins | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 18 2014 11:20 AM

Received the same email too. Very disappointed. As a student, those journals were primary resources....

Very bad decision...

Gilles

Posts 418
davidphillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 18 2014 11:37 AM

Gilles,

Did you read the responses by Logos in this thread?

Posts 397
Danny Parker | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 18 2014 12:04 PM

Mark:

But as Logos changes over the years (for a variety of reasons), so also the consumer changes.  Logos needs to always be rethinking their business model just as the consumer needs to always be rethinking his purchasing options.

This is a reality. Loyalty to a product/company only goes so far. In the end consumers will go where their needs are met. I am rooting for LOGOS, but it remains to be seen what is delivered and at what price. I foresee more and more competitive pressure from others, and hope that it results in continuing competitive responses from LOGOS.

Posts 634
Stephen Steele | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 18 2014 12:42 PM

Thanks, Logos, for the encouraging responses Yes

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 18 2014 1:02 PM

Mark Smith:
Well I saw nothing in Bob's post about the TLJ.

The whole thread was about TLJ! Earlier in the thread, Bob had already posted this

Bob Pritchett:

Into Grace:
Logos was not making enough profits with Galaxy, so they kicked them to the curb. This happened with Moody.

I'm sorry we aren't always able to give a full explanation of why a partnership / royalty / license has changed or ended. I know it's frustrating to users to have something change without explanation, but I don't think it's kind / polite / appropriate to share details of contract negotiations / business terms / disagreements publicly.

I'd suggest that speculation like "not making enough profits... they kicked them to the curb" is just that -- speculation. If you don't know the facts, you're risking libel at the worst, or at least slander and gossip.

Sometimes Logos ends a partnership, sometimes the other party does. I could tell you which was which, but blaming the other party publicly A) reduces the chance we'll be able to work again (many times we've been able to re-start a partnership after a termination), and B) isn't nice.

I'm sorry I can't (or rather, won't) provide more detail. I do understand that it's frustrating.

And this...

Bob Pritchett:

GregW:
None of us actually knows what Logos is planning on the Journals front.

Journals are very important to us, and we're working to get more of them into the system. Over the years we've been enhancing our special support for journals (adding the ability to correctly cite a specific article within a volume, for example, at copy and paste -- if the article is correctly tagged with our latest metadata standards, adding the biblio data type, which lets us tag bibliographic entries long before the destination is available, and which will work once it is, etc.). 

I would love to offer access to ATLA's ATLAS content; much of that was licensed exclusively to ATLA, and at the moment appears to only be available through institutional licenses to libraries, etc. I hope we'll either be able to hook into that -- connecting you directly through your institution's license -- or to convince them to offer access direct-to-consumer through Logos.

Posts 3310
Milkman | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 18 2014 1:15 PM

I too got that email. Kind of shocked that it will no longer be available. I'd be up for the Vyrso suggestion.

mm.

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 18 2014 1:30 PM

Mark Barnes:
The whole thread was about TLJ!

So it is. I didn't get that from your link since I didn't look at the whole thread. That helps. Logos has said something if not all that much to tell us what the future holds.

I do recall another thread in which someone reported the results of a direct contact with Galaxie, and as I recall that information made the outlook seem not as hopeful as Logos is picturing it.

We are left with some facts and some speculation or should we say assurances. The facts are that someone (Galaxie) can still produce these journals, that there has been widespread enthusiasm for them in Logos (and to my recollection no complaints about the tagging in them), and that there are three other Bible software firms that can work out terms amenable for their interests. The assurances are that the contents of TLJ are still in Logos' radar, and that they want to expand their journal offerings.

Frankly, I am grateful for the reassurances but continue to be puzzled (frustrated?) by what seems to be lack of progress in this area. 

As I said, for the price some of us may decide to jump ship to have access to the most recent journals while Logos sorts things out. At least we now know we can do this.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 9
Alan Myatt | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 18 2014 2:06 PM

I sure hope I can continue to get the journals through Logos.  I travel and teach outside the US regularly, and am not always able to get good internet access, so I need these on my hard drive.  What I would really like to see is my ETS membership send JETS to me via Logos each quarter, rather than a hard copy, which is pretty much useless.  Any chance of that type of arrangement with ETS?

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 18 2014 2:13 PM

Mark Smith:
I do recall another thread in which someone reported the results of a direct contact with Galaxie, and as I recall that information made the outlook seem not as hopeful as Logos is picturing it.

It was the same thread...

Galaxie Software:
No, Logos decided they didn't need me any more. They decided to go directly to the journal editors and try to get the content from each journal editor and create their own journal library. I know many of the editors don't like this and are not going to work directly with Logos, so some of the journals in my "Theological Journal Library" will be available in Logos in the future, and some will not.

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 18 2014 2:15 PM

Mark Barnes:

Phil Gons:
we definitely want to make them affordable, while covering our costs to produce them

If the journal owners could be persuaded, Community Pricing would be a great place to determine the sweet spot.

Yes

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

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David Wilson | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 18 2014 2:40 PM

Don't forget BAR and similar.....

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 18 2014 3:15 PM

Mark Barnes:
It was the same thread...

And that seems to be confirmed again my another email from Galaxie just in. Again, who knows how this will all pan out but Galaxie believes some of the existing journals in the TLJ will not agree to work with Logos. We may all hope that things work out successfully for all concerned. It is speculation at this point.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 496
John Duffy | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 18 2014 3:56 PM

Mark Barnes:

Bob Pritchett:

GregW:
None of us actually knows what Logos is planning on the Journals front.

Journals are very important to us, and we're working to get more of them into the system. Over the years we've been enhancing our special support for journals (adding the ability to correctly cite a specific article within a volume, for example, at copy and paste -- if the article is correctly tagged with our latest metadata standards, adding the biblio data type, which lets us tag bibliographic entries long before the destination is available, and which will work once it is, etc.). 

I would love to offer access to ATLA's ATLAS content; much of that was licensed exclusively to ATLA, and at the moment appears to only be available through institutional licenses to libraries, etc. I hope we'll either be able to hook into that -- connecting you directly through your institution's license -- or to convince them to offer access direct-to-consumer through Logos.

For a few years now I've subscribed to 'ATLASerials, Religion Collection' (ATLAS), not through an academic institution or library, but through their subscription service to: 'Clergy and Church Administrative Staff'.  This helps when searching through the latest journals, while I wait for them to be made available in Logos. 

I look forward to when the new arrangements with individual publishers will make journals available in Logos directly and hopefully more quickly than has been possible recently. 

Or, better still, access through Logos under a similar scheme to that which I subscribe to at the minute, in line with Bob's hope.

Posts 468
Charlene | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 18 2014 7:55 PM

I too am so disappointed, after receiving both emails from Galaxie. It's a shame that for some reason some editors have said that they will not work with Logos. Then also there is the cost. Logos may offer journals, but at what cost? It seems to be that the prices are just getting higher, than what we got with Galaxie.

I too was satisfied with what I got from Galaxie in the past. Not sure the "high-quality tagging" is equal to the loss of the journals.

Charlene

Posts 1
Dr. David Rhoades | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 18 2014 8:37 PM

This is VERY disappointing. Logos is a major step toward losing me. And yes, I've read the entire thread. The replies from the Logos reps are actually disconcerting, not comforting. They use sales words like "hope," "our plan," and "great journal content." When I read the phrase, "There's no need to move to another platform," all I could think of was Kevin Bacon in Animal House exclaiming, "Remain calm! All is well!" as he is flattened by a panicked crowd.

IF I were wanting to make a larger profit from a very popular product in my line (notice I said "IF, so please don't threaten me with libel, Bob), here's what I would do:

1. Create a reason to be dissatisfied with the service of the middle man (even though my customers were perfectly happy.)

2. Cancel my contract with the middle man.

3. Tell my subscribers that I HOPE to offer them the same product, that MY PLAN is to satisfy their needs, and that my future product will be GREAT. Just be patient. THERE'S NO NEED to leave.

4. Offer as many of the same journals (oops, I mean "products") as I can individually, not as a package deal. ("New volumes from existing journal series you own will be available on prepub soon.") If they are grouped together as a package, include new "products" that allow me to sell my customers on the idea that it (and the increased cost) is good for them.

Logos is a great product, but the more I feel like they're selling me elephant repellent, the less satisfied I am.

The reality is that I just want updated TJL, even if it has the unconscionable flaw of low-quality tagging.

Posts 1931
Donovan R. Palmer | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 18 2014 9:29 PM

Aside from the bang for buck with the Galaxie Journal offering, it was so convenient to buy the update once a year.  I hope that Logos will consider a bundle of journals rather than having having us put in for multiple pre pubs every year.  What about a subscription service?  I'd be happy to pay for several years up front and just have them arrive when they are published.  Logos already does this with their print magazine, so maybe it might be within their business model to consider?

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