Features only purchase and/or new package set for egalitarian/ecumenical Protestants

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Posts 80
Pastor Kay | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Mar 12 2014 10:00 AM

I would love to be able to purchase the Logos features on their own, such as the word puzzle or the passage guide.  I know you're supposed to buy a package to get access to them, but honestly, for me buying a package would just waste my money. 

As I'm not fluent in Spanish, my choices are between the standard Starter package or Verbum Foundations to get all of the features.  In the Starter the majority of resources in it would be useless to me, as I'm a pastor in the ELCA and have no historical connection to the apparently largely Baptist background represented in that package (not to mention some of the counseling resources and such would be precisely contrary to my beliefs, and I think quite a bit of it would deny the fact of my call to ministry).

And while, with a kind of hilarious irony I have to say, due to my Lutheran background, the Verbum collection would actually contain more things I could use (as there are plenty of Catholics in my area and those documents would give me a background in their methods, not to mention Martin Luther "borrowed" quite a bit from the Catholic church on his way out the door) having to buy a collection that would still contain quite a bit that isn't relevant to my ministry just bothers me.  I'm from a background of practical, thrifty Germans who would hate to spend a penny on something not useful.

So, I wish I could just buy the features, or that Logos would come up with a package set more useful to the mainline/ecumenical Protestants.  (ELCA, PCUSA, UMC, Reformed (though I notice you have a bundle for them), Episcopal, etc.)  It astounds me that this company, which claims to be for-profit, is ignoring such a large customer base.  A stunning majority of the resources you offer are frankly insulting to female clergy and the male clergy (and male & female laity) who support them.

If you would like me to come up with a specific set of suggestions I would be happy to do so once Lent is over.  What with midweek services, Confirmation, and regular Sunday services that I preside at (just like thousands of female clergy do each week the world over, and thanks be to God for their ministry to a world in need) I'm a little busy at the moment.

Posts 519
Steve Maling | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 12 2014 11:11 AM

Preach it, Sister!

Steve (retired PCUSA)

Posts 1566
Ken McGuire | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 12 2014 11:15 AM

This is still a glaring need and has come up before.  I will only reference what I wrote another time it came up.... http://community.logos.com/forums/p/65469/457665.aspx#457665

or more recently http://community.logos.com/forums/p/81902/573065.aspx#573065

SDG

Ken McGuire

The Gospel is not ... a "new law," on the contrary, ... a "new life." - William Julius Mann

Posts 5183
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 12 2014 11:44 AM

I have long wished Logos would offer 

The Inclusive Bible: The First Egalitarian Translation by Priests for Equality

although I know it would be controversial and may have trouble getting enough support to make it through pre pub.

-Dan

Posts 3936
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 13 2014 7:07 PM

You're best bet may be the minimal crossgrade to pick up the new features and datasets for L5.

https://www.logos.com/products/search?q=minimal+crossgrade

L2 lvl4, L3 Scholars, L4 Scholars, L5 Platinum,  L6 Collectors. L7 Baptist Portfolio. L8 Baptist Platinum.

Posts 171
Adam Rao | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 14 2014 10:04 AM

Katie,

I hear you and couldn't agree more. For what it's worth, I purchased the Logos 4 Minimal Crossgrade and Logos 5 Minimal Crossgrade and then added the resources I wanted. Haven't regretted that decision one bit.

Posts 2037
Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 17 2014 10:27 AM

I wish Logos would downsize their small/middle base-package, namely Bronze. It contains way too many Reverse Interlinear - how about including none of those in Bronze and instead offer a separate reverse interlinears bundle? I don't have much complaints about Starter even though it contains too much and the wrong product to be something to recommend and I think it's very difficult or impossible to make a good Starter base-package, but I think that Bronze should definitely not contain everything in Starter! There's a lot that could be said about Bronze and the resources in it are of little use or value. The base-packages sell fairly well because most people don't understand what kind of value random books have. The only really positive thing about Bronze is that it contains just the right amount of datasets.

One thing that needs to be said about base-packages is that the Topical Indexes seem to be connected to them, although I wish there would be an adapted Topical Index which references several kinds of purchases at the same time: both the Protestant and the Catholic base-packages and individual resources/collections, and that every product-page would tell whether the resource is "listed" in a Topical Index.

Aply!
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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 17 2014 11:29 AM

Unix:
It contains way too many Reverse Interlinear - how about including none of those in Bronze and instead offer a separate reverse interlinears bundle?

A number of features are dependent upon an RI - I never use the RI directly, but am often annoyed when one does not exist for the text I am using.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 9602
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 17 2014 11:59 AM

I'm same as MJ.  I rarely see/use the reverse interlinears. But I'm constantly using the underlying databases that match up the various databases.  

I guess Logos 'finally' (no criticism intended) fixed the L4 vs L5 crossgrades, where the L4 had to be purchased instead of the L5 to get the RI databases.

But returning to Katie's original point, that's a major reason I stuck with the OL package; the Logos Koolaid always tastes funny. Maybe after Logos finishes the Mongolian/Far-Eastern package plus the always-asked-for Reformed Coptic package, they might take a look at modern Christianity (at least after the early 1900s maybe).


Posts 18294
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 17 2014 1:13 PM

Pastor Kay:
I wish I could just buy the features, or that Logos would come up with a package set more useful to the mainline/ecumenical Protestants.  (ELCA, PCUSA, UMC, Reformed (though I notice you have a bundle for them), Episcopal, etc.)

I think you'll find that the "Reformed" bundles Logos offers are not for mainline/egalitarian/ecumenical-minded Reformed folks, but the more conservative types.

Pastor Kay:
A stunning majority of the resources you offer are frankly insulting to female clergy and the male clergy (and male & female laity) who support them.

I wouldn't say it's a majority, since there are all the reference books, commentaries and ancient texts which aren't particularly un-egalitarian. But yes, a whole lot of resources are insulting or at least completely uninteresting to the many female pastors, theologians, biblical scholars, church historians, and those who learn from them and worship with them. I've had to hide quite a number of such books that came with my Portfolio base package, e.g. Biblical Womanhood in the Home. Ugh.

Some publishers that Logos should try to establish (or strengthen) relationships with if they want to broaden their customer base to include more of the liberal/mainline/egalitarian denominations:

I think that, unless and until Logos sees the need/opportunity and hires product mangers to fill out their catalog with works of interest to such potential customers, they will fall through the cracks.

Posts 9944
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 17 2014 1:29 PM

Rosie Perera:
I wouldn't say it's a majority, since there are all the reference books, commentaries and ancient texts which aren't particularly un-egalitarian. But yes, a whole lot of resources are insulting or at least completely uninteresting to the many female pastors, theologians, biblical scholars, church historians, and those who learn from them and worship with them. I've had to hide quite a number of such books that came with my Portfolio base package, e.g. Biblical Womanhood in the Home. Ugh.

Barefoot and pregnant, sweetie pie !  Wink

Just yanking your chain.  I would most likely agree with you though I don't know precisely what your position is.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 2037
Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 17 2014 2:59 PM

I already had RI:s since L4 (Original Languages Library), and newcomers who want full functionality always have the option of buying the Minimal Crossgrades:

MJ. Smith:
A number of features are dependent upon an RI:
Unix:
It contains way too many Reverse Interlinear - how about including none of those in Bronze and instead offer a separate reverse interlinears bundle?
Denise:
I'm same as MJ. I rarely see/use the reverse interlinears. But I'm constantly using the underlying databases that match up the various databases.

Aply!
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Posts 18294
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 17 2014 7:25 PM

George Somsel:
I would most likely agree with you though I don't know precisely what your position is.

I'm hard to pin down precisely, but I believe both women and men are gifted by God to be pastors, preachers, priests, teachers, elders, evangelists, theologians, etc., and that gender should not be a reason to deny a person the ability to follow God's calling, and that there are no roles in the church that are unsuitable for women. Sure, there are women who are unsuitable for some roles, but so are there men who are unsuitable.

Posts 80
Pastor Kay | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 17 2014 7:35 PM

Actually the minimal cross grades leave out several features and datasets,  so no,  not full functionality.

Posts 3936
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 17 2014 8:26 PM

A bare-bones crossgrade to Logos 5. The Minimal Crossgrade includes all the new Logos 5 features and datasets, plus a small collection of resources that equip you to use them.

Not sure whats missing... but as it says (emphasis mine) All the L5 features and data sets are included. What is it you are looking for thats missing? Perhaps it was from an earlier version.

L2 lvl4, L3 Scholars, L4 Scholars, L5 Platinum,  L6 Collectors. L7 Baptist Portfolio. L8 Baptist Platinum.

Posts 80
Pastor Kay | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 17 2014 8:33 PM

The Word Puzzle tool,  & others that are listed with,  say the Gold but not the Bronze,  use the compare tool to check.

Posts 3936
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 17 2014 8:37 PM

Since I have a higher base package, I'm pretty sure I would have to log out and log back in.

No offense, but I'm trying to help you here - FWIW as a owner of Platnium & Platinum reformed I'm not aware of any word game as a part of my package.

Good luck.

L2 lvl4, L3 Scholars, L4 Scholars, L5 Platinum,  L6 Collectors. L7 Baptist Portfolio. L8 Baptist Platinum.

Posts 18294
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 17 2014 8:40 PM

abondservant:

A bare-bones crossgrade to Logos 5. The Minimal Crossgrade includes all the new Logos 5 features and datasets, plus a small collection of resources that equip you to use them.

Not sure whats missing... but as it says (emphasis mine) All the L5 features and data sets are included. What is it you are looking for thats missing? Perhaps it was from an earlier version.

The Logos 5 Minimal Crossgrade is missing several datasets. You'd need to buy Gold at a minimum to get them all.

However most of these are available by purchasing the Logos 4 Minimal Crossgrade, which is still available.

I'm not sure where Greek Pronunciation Addin with Erasmian & Modern Data Sets is. It's not listed in the contents of the L4MC. But I know it existed in L4. It used to be a separate Addin you had to purchase, but they've done away with the Addins model, so it is no longer purchasable as a standalone dataset. Looks like the minimal base package you'd need to buy to get it would be Bronze.

Posts 9602
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 17 2014 9:56 PM

Well, now. It looks like we're still arguing exactly what is in Logos5 and we're almost gold on Logos6  (well behind the scenes of course).

I had thought with the death of Logos4, that the Logos4 crossgrade went to Logos5.  But then I remembered the Logos4 crossgrade didn't have the Logos3 features (Libby), thus explaining the confusion on the Logos5 crossgrade.

And just a month away from XPocalypse (per another thread tonight).


Posts 9944
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 17 2014 10:26 PM

Rosie Perera:

George Somsel:
I would most likely agree with you though I don't know precisely what your position is.

I'm hard to pin down precisely, but I believe both women and men are gifted by God to be pastors, preachers, priests, teachers, elders, evangelists, theologians, etc., and that gender should not be a reason to deny a person the ability to follow God's calling, and that there are no roles in the church that are unsuitable for women. Sure, there are women who are unsuitable for some roles, but so are there men who are unsuitable.

We're agreed on that.  I resolve some of Paul's comments as being sociologically determined according to the practices of his day.  Just as Paul cautions against having a drunkard as a bishop, so also he cautions women to be silent since it was not approved at the time—the determining factor was not bringing disrepute upon the church.  I've seen some good women priests and some bad ones, but I've seen the same with men. 

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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