User Manual for Logos4

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This post has 60 Replies | 3 Followers

Posts 1674
Paul Golder | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 30 2009 9:33 AM

MarkSwaim:
Interesting.  I like statistics like these.  Can you share where you got this figure from?

Just an old number that I had in my head, probably different now since included manuals are practically non existent.

One thing I can add, from personal experience, is back in my years in tech support very rarely had anyone ever read the manuals before calling in. There were SPA surveys back in the early 90's that showed most users did not read their manuals, and this is what led to the current trend of not including manuals. (albeit the main goal was to increase profit, but it did help to reduce consumer costs).

 

 

"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."

Posts 1674
Paul Golder | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 30 2009 9:36 AM

MarkSwaim:
Is it really true that 46% of all users READ a manual?

One thing I forgot to add. There was differing numbers between the male/female demographic. Women read manuals 2:1 more than men did, this I'm sure still holds true Smile

"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."

Posts 4
Gavin Robertson | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 30 2009 11:11 AM

Thanks Rosie - I appreciate your response.  But it doesn't alleviate my frustration in not having a manual that is a part of (or comes with) Logos 4 that I can look through to familarize myself with the program's features or to reference as needed.  For example,  I just finished viewing an excellent video by Mark Barnes in which he does a search for "divorce NEAR shame".  Now, nowhere within the Logos 4 program can I locate the keywords (like NEAR) I can use with a search -- hugely frustrating, and in my mind entirely unnecessary. The answer may be online, but having to go online to find something as basic as this seems silly.

Posts 4
Jeffery Bentley | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 30 2009 11:43 AM

Yes I ordered them the same day I ordered L4 and they came 3 days later after I got L4. I personally think they are worth the money. I ordered both volume 1 and 2 and now I always have them. I took the time to go through both manuals spending almost 4 whole days doing so. I learned way more than I ever could have on my own. It is also cheaper than the seminar. I like manuals and I am a manual learner. Some people like a classroom setting better. It's a personal preference. I now know how to accurately read the codes in the interlinear Bibles. Morris has a whole chapter just on the Louw-Nida resource which was very informative to me. I was totally ignorant of that resource. I have them on my desk and they are there for easy reference. He also gives you lots of ideas to explore on your own. He makes you think about different ways you can approach a line of inquiry. I like that. So yes for me it was worth it.

Posts 1142
Juanita | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 30 2009 1:09 PM

Based on these posts, the thought I have is we need a manual or manuals that lean towards a more exhaustive treatment of L4.  We know Help doesn't, but I did purchase other Morris Proctor manuals in the past-L3 and previous renditions of Logos Bible software.  They seemed really basic-still good-but geared toward the beginner; almost the same coverage that you would get viewing the videos that are already up on the Logos training page.

I cannot physically attend Camp Logos and it usually takes a year or so to get that on dvd.  And there will be many upgrades where features are added so manuals written weeks ago for L4 will contain dated material.  For now, I am benefitting more from what I learn on the forum and also Mark and John's videos.

 

Posts 569
J. Morris | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 30 2009 1:28 PM

Joan Korte:

 And there will be many upgrades where features are added so manuals written weeks ago for L4 will contain dated material.

This is a real BIG concern of mine.  How can the manuals be of greatest benifit when there are MAJOR upgrades yet to come?  I'm guessing there will be updated manuals at some point.  (There would have to be)

So... purchase the manuals now (which were finished when L4 came out)... and then RE-purchase the up-dated (I assume) manuals (and/or prob. videos) a year from now?

I have a hard time being 'on-board' with this concept.  I want (need) the manuals, but they will be 'dated' 6 months from now and missing KEY insturctions on how to use the updated program in the near and long term.

Posts 29
LogosEmployee
MorrisProctorEmployee
Morris Proctor | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 30 2009 2:31 PM

Thanks for your interest in the manuals. You are correct that the content is being updated right along with Logos 4. When you purchase them through Logos or mp|seminars please send an e-mail to info@mpseminars.com and we’ll e-mail manual changes to you as they become available.

Thanks,
Morris

Posts 350
Chuck P. | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 30 2009 3:09 PM

"we’ll e-mail manual changes to you as they become available."   Now that's what I'm talking about....thanks, Morris

Chuck

Laptop: Lenovo P580 - 15.6" IdeaPad Laptop
 - 6GB Memory - 750GB Hard Drive - Windows 7
 Iphone5s            Logos 7, Bronze

Posts 187
Anthony Etienne | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 30 2009 3:56 PM

Paul Golder:

Has anyone purchased the MP manuals yet?

If so, what level of expertise are they written to?

And are they worth the investment?

 

Yes I have and I think, that they are definately worth it; and since I can't make it to any of the Camp Logos meetings. The manuals are a very reasonble alternative. By the time they got delivered (about a week via USPS) I was adept enough to skip a few sections. Mainly because of the free training videos on the Logos site and the very well done user videos. I'm really glad that I chose to order them, as they are good reference; and I can teach new users and friends, who stop by to use my library.

Posts 102
Roger King | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 30 2009 4:05 PM

Paul Golder:

Has anyone purchased the MP manuals yet?

If so, what level of expertise are they written to?

And are they worth the investment?

 

Yes they are good and quite thorough. The only "complaint" I have is the multiple printing errors. I would think in a relatively small document such as these there wouldn't be any (these are pretty glaring) - plus the fact that they are $30 each. But I am willing to overlook this for the thoroughness in covering the Logos 4 program. (Actually I have always found errors in most of Moris Proctor's manuals - missing lines, words, etc.) I should also state that I am a teacher and been trained to see errors in writing.

Posts 187
Anthony Etienne | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 30 2009 4:13 PM

Charles C Pace:

The manuals should be in PDF online files and the user could decide to print or not....also, it would make it a lot easier and less expensive to keep updated if no hard copies were mailed....

In this case, the piracy issue surfaces; of course it could be locked and keyed to the purchaser. Apress books does this for the PDF version of the C# book I bought.

I personally don't have a problem spending a few extra dollars to have Morris Proctor based training manuals, lets face it; the guy is a VERY good teacher. I feel like I"m also purchasing some of his personal time training me on getting the most out of Logos 4. You guys all make a valid point, but I have also been on the business end of software/hardware development and software QA. Coming from being a former systems engineer for the worlds largest computer manufacture. Embedded manuals and training material, are sparce and leave something to be desired, from a lot af major companies. If they do offer manuals and or training it is 3rd party, and if it is done by the company then outsource with shabby QA.

Posts 187
Anthony Etienne | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 30 2009 4:19 PM

Morris Proctor:

Thanks for your interest in the manuals. You are correct that the content is being updated right along with Logos 4. When you purchase them through Logos or mp|seminars please send an e-mail to info@mpseminars.com and we’ll e-mail manual changes to you as they become available.

Thanks,
Morris

YesYes

Posts 103
Jason | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 30 2009 4:22 PM

Maybe I've missed this somewhere, but I'd love at least a centralized listing of all the possible search operators in L3/L4.  I've sometimes reconstructed some using what other people have posted here, but I still would like a good list of those different operators and things you can do with morphology and syntax.  If it's in the wiki, could someone point me there?

Thanks.

the ancient art of shalom: thots on sustainable spirituality in san francisco - http://me.jasonkuo.com/thots

Posts 1539
Terry Poperszky | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 30 2009 4:40 PM

Morris Proctor:
Thanks for your interest in the manuals. You are correct that the content is being updated right along with Logos 4. When you purchase them through Logos or mp|seminars please send an e-mail to info@mpseminars.com and we’ll e-mail manual changes to you as they become available.

 

So, if what understand you saying is correct, you adjust you seminars as new features are released? What type of lead time does that normally entail?

 

 

Posts 29
LogosEmployee
MorrisProctorEmployee
Morris Proctor | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 30 2009 5:08 PM

Hey Terry,
Our seminars are always based on the current release of the software. So now we’re training on 4.0a. Of course there’s no way to cover all Logos 4 features in any one seminar. The features covered in the seminar are always current. For example, the updated Cited By tool in 4.0a is now covered in Camp Logos. The Vol 1 and 2 manuals that are separate from the seminar are also updated in a timely fashion. They’re also now based on 4.0a.

Posts 35
MorrisProctorEmployee
David Kitchen | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 30 2009 5:09 PM

Hello all,

My name is David and I actually helped with the manuals. Morris provided the content and I would help lay it out. I have been working with MP Seminars since the release of L3, so I can attest to some of the changes from the manual in L3 to L4. I can also attest to my office being my second home, 10 extra lbs. from fast food, and energy drinks being the drink of choice during the creation of the L4 training manuals Smile

As most of you know, Logos Bible Software is very extensive. Our manuals also try to be very in-depth. Our L3 manual was a little over 100 pages in content. Our two training manuals combined are almost 300 pages. Our Syllabus for Camp Logos is now the same size as the whole L3 training manual. Volume 1 explains all of the main features in detail and Volume 2 picks up with more advanced training (such as the mentioned section on the Louw-Nida numbers).

Obviously our main goal was the actual content in the manual. There was a lot of content that had to be covered, but we still wanted to make improvements in the manual. Some improvements:

  • An index in the back of both manuals
  • Bold call out sections on the side that highlight keystrokes, definitions, or functions of features in L4
  • More pictures with detailed explanations

Also, like Moe said, all of our manuals are up-to-date. We work round-the-clock to make sure we are ready with updated manuals. We also want to make sure that customers who have already purchased the manuals receive all of the updates in PDF form.

As always, if anyone has any feedback based on the manuals, please feel free to e-mail me at david@mpseminars.com.

Thanks!

 

Posts 2113
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 30 2009 6:53 PM

David

Your post was very helpful.  May I ask why these manuals cannot be available as a resource in L4?  I can understand why it cannot be a pdf document.  But is it possible that we can have the manuals available for purchase directly as a resource in L4?

Thanks

Mark

Posts 195
Valerie Pobog | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 30 2009 7:03 PM

I went to the MP Seminar in California 2 weeks ago and they have said they will send out addendums to the workbooks as the changes are made. I felt it was worth it to get in and learn the basics. I also have the workbooks but have not made my way through them both. I have learned alot from the user-videos as well. Thanks guys!

Posts 569
J. Morris | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 31 2009 6:58 AM

MarkSwaim:

David

Your post was very helpful.  May I ask why these manuals cannot be available as a resource in L4?  I can understand why it cannot be a pdf document.  But is it possible that we can have the manuals available for purchase directly as a resource in L4?

Thanks

Mark

Mark, your a genius! An AMAZING idea!  If this were the case, I'd gladly purchace the manuals (even at an extra cost).

Posts 1
Doug Mertens | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 31 2009 9:16 AM

Jeremiah Daniel Morris:

Mark, your a genius! An AMAZING idea!  If this were the case, I'd gladly purchace the manuals (even at an extra cost).

Without a doubt, that would be my next purchase! 

Seems kind of ironic to me that the books on how to get the most out of the L4 resources aren't available as an L4 resource.

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