Fight Church Trailer ....

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Posts 1865
mike | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Apr 4 2014 8:05 AM

I don't know how to describe this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPWnsQsUxNo&hd=1

Posts 1062
William Gabriel | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 4 2014 9:00 AM

I got "Jesus loves you" tattooed on my knuckles for the occasion.

Posts 5270
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 4 2014 9:09 AM

Very sad...

Posts 890
Brother Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 4 2014 9:11 AM

I'll have to wait for the much anticipated Logos "Tap-Out Base Package" to fully grasp it.  Surprise

"I read dead people..."

Posts 87
Pinoy Preacher | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 4 2014 9:56 AM

“Mainstream Christianity has feminized men.”

I think the man in the movie who said this is deeply flawed in his theology and worldview.

Posts 788
JRS | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 4 2014 12:03 PM

mike:

I don't know how to describe this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPWnsQsUxNo&hd=1

Do they really think Fight Church efficaciously draws people to trust in the risen Christ?  HERE is what truly draws them.  Sad

I have come to realize that for many, church growth/spiritual growth is no longer based on principles from the Book of Acts but on the acts you book.

How blessed is the one whom Thou dost choose, and bring near to Thee(Psa 65:4a)

Posts 4841
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 4 2014 1:02 PM

JRS:

...church growth/spiritual growth is no longer based on principles from the Book of Acts but on the acts you book.

Witty. Smile

Posts 1865
mike | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 4 2014 5:32 PM

why do stuffs like these always come from USA?

I'm embarrassed..

Posts 3942
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 4 2014 5:35 PM

I can say that as a casual fan of MMA that it has opened doors into peoples lives (in the way that football or baseball does) for me. I'm a preacher not a fighter hah. But none the less if I moved into an area, and heard that a local preacher was also an MMA fighter I would drop by his church one sunday as part of the church hunt.

Bearing in mind MMA is not pro-wrestling. There is a lot less glitz, and drama. VERY very few fighters hate other fighters (though there have been a few, and I think in his prime everyone feared and hated Royce Gracie but thats a microcosm of the sport). They start the fight with touching gloves and often end the fight with a hug. Frequently its friends fighting friends and with no impact on the friendships. Its their job, (most) treat it as a job, and are professional about it.

There are a number of christians in the MMA world that are using their platform to share the gospel; not only with other fighters but with fans, and on their facebook page.

I was reading about a fighter recently whose sister had been kidnapped, brutally raped by a group, and murdered by a crime syndicate in his home country. He quit fighting for a year and spent vast amounts of money searching for his sister. IIRC through the process he found Christ and became a believer and is now at peace with what happened believing he will see her again one day. He now travels sharing the gospel and his testimony from the platform he's been given as a fighter.

Alot of guys at the end of fights will immediate thank their lord and savior jesus christ in whom and through whom they were created and sustained.

Further the regulations limit the damage an individual can do. As a result there are fewer injuries (as defined as an issue severe enough to warrant attention from a doctor or hospital - not just scrapes and bruises) in MMA in a given year than in football; though when there are injuries they tend to be serious (IE the wiederman vs silva fight where silva destroyed the bone in his leg) and career ending. I suppose the same is true of a football quarterback that breaks his leg in the game.

The people on the video that said fighting is the result of hate don't seem to have a clear understanding, or experience with the sport. While I don't know how I feel about a fight club in the church, I'd love to see more churches teaching MMA to teenagers - the discipline and self control they would learn would help them through the rest of their lives; and with the gospel the rest of eternity.

Is it violent? sure. So is football, hockey, rugby, and even soccer at times. Is it risky? Sure but so can be track and field, and the swim team.

Just my .02 :)

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Posts 3942
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 4 2014 5:44 PM

To emphasize the point, for the men reading this - have you ever been in a fight with a guy whose gone on to be your friend?

I have.

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Fred Chapman | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 4 2014 6:09 PM

Did some digging beyond the trailer. Here is a link to the church website who have MMA as just one of the many ministries they offer. They look like a good church that is impacting there community for the Kingdom. I will let God decide how He chooses to lead the people in this church and how He chooses to judge what they are doing. I wish them well in their efforts to bring people into a relationship with Christ and pray they will have much success.

http://www.discovervictory.com/

Posts 4841
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 4 2014 6:24 PM

As Seraph says to Neo...you never truly know someone until you fight them.

Posts 2038
Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 5 2014 12:46 AM

I don't see the point. Why try all different means to find friends? And I don't really see any reason why to get involved in violent sports:

abondservant:
To emphasize the point, for the men reading this - have you ever been in a fight with a guy whose gone on to be your friend?

Aply!
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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 5 2014 2:05 AM

abondservant:

To emphasize the point, for the men reading this - have you ever been in a fight with a guy whose gone on to be your friend?

I know few men who have been in a fight after the age of ten. When a 15-year-old foster son came with a fondness for violent sports, we reached an agreement - no violent sports on the TV if I am home. Over time, the gentle disapproval was sufficient to teach him better ways of being masculine and enjoying sports. He even learned to treat women appropriately - something his father never mastered. Violence begets violence; nonviolence begets nonviolence. Then again, my maiden name is common in Lancaster County (heart of Amish country).

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1735
Robert M. Warren | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 5 2014 6:22 AM

When the Bible is not enough, nothing is enough.

Posts 3942
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 6 2014 9:49 PM

MJ. Smith:

abondservant:

To emphasize the point, for the men reading this - have you ever been in a fight with a guy whose gone on to be your friend?

I know few men who have been in a fight after the age of ten. When a 15-year-old foster son came with a fondness for violent sports, we reached an agreement - no violent sports on the TV if I am home. Over time, the gentle disapproval was sufficient to teach him better ways of being masculine and enjoying sports. He even learned to treat women appropriately - something his father never mastered. Violence begets violence; nonviolence begets nonviolence. Then again, my maiden name is common in Lancaster County (heart of Amish country).

I've spent some time in PA, and passed through that county. 

Agreed - that last (and actually only one of two - neither did I start) fight I was in was at the age of 13, and Ricardo is still a friend to this day. The other fight he and I lost touch when I left the church he still attends, but it was an amicable drifting apart... 

The violence and aggression inherent in football is no worse than that in MMA. I don't fight as an adult and when I have cable, I do watch MMA. Hockey is orders of magnitude more violent, seems like every team has a thug whose sole purpose is beating up problem players on the other team. Its safer. 

Perhaps giving the 15-year old an outlet for his aggression (important for boys as you know) through sports was the best thing for him. A friend of mine runs a martial arts program in German high-schools. He's allowed to dismiss kids from the program and then they are placed in more traditional sports, but everyone is required to start there. Its caused women to be able to defend themselves against rape and so forth. He's sent me a few articles to this effect over the years. It teaches self control and discipline. Those who stay a part of the program usually have better grades than those who don't, and as compared to the averages of other schools in the district. Martial arts are taught as a means of protecting ones self, and these exhibitions are showcasing pretty high level skill sets. 

I have a friend whose probably the most evangelistic guy I've ever met. Loves the Lord with every fiber of his being and to talk to him for 30 seconds makes this fact clear. 

He's involved with ministry to the homeless, specifically those who are homeless because of drug and alcohol addictions. He's developed his own counselling curriculum to help folks get clean (based upon scripture). He's a pastor - not only to those folks, but to a church as well. He's also a martial artist. 

He has three blackbelts, and sees himself as a missionary to the MMA community. He's had the chance to lead people to the Lord that are now on these MMA programs on television. He's taught some, sparred with some to sharpen skills, and so forth. He doesn't have a mean bone in his body - but his art has been a way for him to share the Gospel with a niche group. 

Its not that the bible alone isn't enough (to answer the person further down from MJ) its that it gives you access to people in your community that you might not have encountered otherwise. Like those that have vehicle repair ministries - they reach the poor and opportunistic. Its not a matter of adding to the Gospel. 

How many of you would have had the chance to reach Vitor Belfort with the Gospel? He's certainly not someone I would have encountered in my daily life - but God placed Godly men in his life that had been sharing the Gospel with him. MMA fighters need the Gospel too, and if these pastors are equipped to effectively reach men with the gospel through this sport than Absolutely I am for MMA. 

Check this out.



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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 6 2014 10:42 PM

abondservant:
Perhaps giving the 15-year old an outlet for his aggression (important for boys as you know) through sports was the best thing for him.

Actually, the best thing for him was to switch him to a half-day of high-school and a half-day of a junior college maritime program. Although he has mild celebral palsy, the young college-age men rallied around him and encouraged him to do much more than he thought he could - and taught him that through teamwork, much could be achieved that was impossible for an individual. He even made friends with a baseball player who taught him how to pitch despite having limited eyesight and limited use of his left side. That friend spent a few years in the minor leagues so it was a true act of friendship and belief in my foster son.

And, no, I don't know that it is important for boys to have an outlet for their aggression because I know very few boys with aggressive tendencies - the kids I know gravitate to swimming, crew, gymnastics, martial arts, rock climbing, track & field and occasionally soccer. I've known 3 world class athletes in those areas. I've known directly or met through friends, ministers to truckers, rodeo contestants, sailors, homeless, mentally ill, developmentally delayed, prisons, even one pub ministry. I don't see promoting of violence as necessary to reach people involved in violence - I'm personally more in tune with the priest who transferred street gang violence to the basketball court. There may be times where it is appropriate, but I'd always approach it with suspicion. As my Dad would say "I'm from Missouri on this one" meaning the onus of proof is on the MMA to prove that it is the best method (or God's chosen method) of reaching these people.

abondservant:
He has three blackbelts,

My (biological) son has the distinction of having fought the national youth champion in karate. My son was in Hawaii and taking Tae Kwan Do. He swears that others threw matches to avoid the final, leaving him the sole person foolish enough to get on the same mat as the national champ. It's right up there with his other sports exploits - like having two Samoans throw him over the line and onto the opposing quarterback. Big Smile The referees were not amused (at least in front of the players).

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 3942
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 7 2014 12:34 AM

MJ. Smith:

 As my Dad would say "I'm from Missouri on this one" meaning the onus of proof is on the MMA to prove that it is the best method (or God's chosen method) of reaching these people.



Your foster son reminds me of a real life friend of mine... But I digress.

If I came across as suggesting thats the end all be all ministry tool then I miss-spoke. Its like tools in a tool box. That metric box end might not fit everything, but for the things it does fit its indispensable. Sure you could grab the nut with pliers, or vice grips, but neither of those are the best tool for that particular nut.

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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 7 2014 12:43 AM

Here's an excellent response to the MMA Church phenomenon, by a former MMA fighter:

http://theotherjournal.com/2011/06/28/the-confessions-of-a-cage-fighter-masculinity-misogyny-and-the-fear-of-losing-control/ 

And another good one by Michael Horton on "Muscular Christianity".

Posts 3942
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 7 2014 12:54 AM

The only thing I can say to the first article is often the stones that people throw are based upon their own baggage. Maybe that means the author struggled with homo-eroticism as a result of his cage matches; but no one I know whose actually participated in the sport has expressed similar issues. Maybe thats because my friends are well chosen and holier than most (chuckle) or perhaps there are other issues at play. 

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this. 

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