A Request for Feedback on some of Mounce's Greek Resources

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Posts 1547
Rick Ausdahl | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, Apr 5 2014 8:49 AM

Just over a year ago I asked for tips on Greek grammar resources and was introduced to Mounce's Greek for the Rest of Us.  I found a used copy of the first edition (text and CD) and had just pulled it off my bookshelf to get into it when I got a March Madness email from Logos for Mounce's Basics of Biblical Greek Grammar.  A look at that resource led to its related resources in Logos (the workbook, the audio for the vocabulary, and the reference card).

In terms of digital content, I have also found the websites for Teknia and Biblical Training which both look promising.

As someone without any classroom training in Greek, I'd be grateful for any feedback that will help me do any of the following:

  • Compare the two Mounce books (Greek for the Rest of Us and Basics of Biblical Greek Grammar) regarding content, objectives, difficulty level.
  • Compare Greek for the Rest of Us editions 1 & 2 for content and/or formatting.
  • Compare Basics of Biblical Greek Grammar editions 2 & 3 for content and/or formatting.
  • Evaluate pros and cons of the digital vs. printed versions of the books.
  • Consider the general benefits of purchasing related resources:  video lectures; audio for vocabulary; workbook; reference card; flash cards.
  • Compare the benefits of purchasing related resources vs. purchasing just the textbook and making use of related free (but limited) resources at the Teknia and Biblical Training web sites noted above.

I know that covers a lot of ground.  Please understand that I'm not asking anyone to tell me what will work best for me--that's not a reasonable request.  My primary purpose regarding Greek, is to make better use of commentaries, dictionaries, and reverse interlinears.  You may use it in other/additional ways, but your experience and thoughts/opinions regarding the following items will still be of help and greatly appreciated.

  • The two books and their editions.
  • Benefits of the related resource materials.
  • Pros and cons of the digital vs. paper versions of the non audio/video resources:  i.e. the texts, workbook, flash cards, etc.

Thanks!

Posts 4625
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Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 5 2014 9:09 AM

Peace, My Friend!            In line with your post, are you aware of the very exciting new group just starting up on FaithLife ...

                  I've joined and am eager to continue growing with my brothers and sisters ...

here is the url in case you'd like to look at it ....           (This group is Mounce!  Mounce!  Mounce!)       *smile*

https://faithlife.com/basics-of-biblical-greek/topics

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

Posts 1547
Rick Ausdahl | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 5 2014 1:21 PM

Thanks for the link, Milford--it sounds like the goal of the group might work well for me, though I'm not sure about that yet.  Boy... I wish I had posted my inquiry a few weeks ago.  I'm just trying to get my head around which text and related resources to go with, and in which format.  The study group has already settled on a text and have already started the study.  Even if allowed to join, I'll be a week (or more) behind everyone else, right out of the gate.  Wonder if I could catch up and still have the stuff really sink in.  Hmmm.

Do you know if there was any group discussion about which text to use and how the group settled on the "Basics" text?  If so (and if it's a documented discussion), can you point me to it?  I'm wondering if reading the discussion comments might help me determine if I should go for it and ask about joining the group.

I do wonder if I'd fit in with the existing group.  I'm past my prime so to speak, so I may be a little slower than the other members--maybe a lot slower.  I'm also a lay person and doing this for personal study reasons vs. as a pastor/leader who may be working from a very different perspective.

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Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 5 2014 2:17 PM

Peace and Blessing!                      You can always join the group and then unjoin if it doesn't suit you ...         I'm familiar with a number of those in the group; and these are very nice guys!     *smile*       If you join, you can then read what they have written to one another and get the whole picture!!!

               Also, about being behind ...          I will be very definitely behind as I have a bunch of irons in the fire ......      an old retired guy with too much on my plate, of all things          *smile*

                      I wrote a post to Brother Peterson that I will share with you in a moment   ...    that I would be working at my own speed ....

Even if you don't study with the group, there might be value in your joining it in order to engage in the conversations ....   ???

You are free, Brother!!!!           *smile*

            Also, I'm past my prime ...    going to be 78 in a few weeks  --- 44 years of active Pastoral Ministry under my belt!   

also, maybe a little slower, but                    so what?                       I am free, Brother!             *smile*

Personal study reasons are great ...........             each of us works from his/her own perspective anyway...

             Here's the post I wrote earlier ...

Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 31 2014 12:38 PM

David A. Peterson:

Faithlife group up and running, so far 22 of us ready to start on Monday

Always room for more :)

Peace, David!               I signed up with the group and am grateful to you and others for engaging in this project.  Thank you kindly!    *smile*

                                               Right now I have a whole bunch of irons in the fire and won't be saying much within the group, although I'll be there -- and striving! to keep up with the lessons and the homework -- at least according to my own schedule ...

                     I first took Greek at Concordia College, Milwaukee, Wisconsin in the fall of 1954 or 1955, my first year of college as an 18 year old!     On my way to become a Lutheran Pastor (LCMS)                            It will be so good to "refresh"!         ... although I've used my classical AND New Testament Greek since those wonderful and very "heady" days!                                      *smile*                                        My instructing professor was the Reverend Doctor Walter Jennrich.  Then also the Rev. Dr. Augustus C. Hardt whom we lovingly and affectionately called "The Holy Ghost" because he was tall and frail and looked like the Holy Ghost!           *smile*

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

Posts 1547
Rick Ausdahl | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 5 2014 3:03 PM

Thanks again, Milford.  Couldn't help but chuckle a few times while reading your last post.  It's good to laugh now and then-especially at ourselves.  Sometimes, I'll have an unexpected flashback to my own youth--something I did, or, perhaps something I said (or just believed), and one of two things will happen.  If the recollection involves mere naivety, I'll crack an uncontrollable reflex grin, shake my head and think, "Lord, I'm sure glad you have a sense of humor"!  Smile  But sometimes, the memory is something I'd really rather forget--something that was so out of place or out of line that it embarrasses me to even think about it.  In those situations, I think, "Thank you Lord, for your patience and mercy."  Embarrassed

But, back to the group.  Left to my own thoughts, I wouldn't have considered joining the group unless I believed there was a serious chance of keeping up. I just wouldn't expect to get much from discussions about things I hadn't reviewed.  But I'll think on what you said.

If I decide to pursue it, what's the process?  I've never joined a group before.

Posts 4625
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Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 5 2014 3:20 PM

Good for you for considering it ...         The group is here!              https://faithlife.com/basics-of-biblical-greek/about

You just "join"                   There are about 30 members ...            They'll be glad to have you    IF they get around to acknowledging you at all!

            You can then "explore" the group, including various conversations that have taken place ....

                    There's also a section called documents where you can obtain copies of WordLists to be downloaded to your Logos 5

          *smile*               Also, Logos now has a great (free!) app for mobile devices, permitting us to use word lists from Logos 5 as FlashCards to enhance our Greek and/or Hebrew vocabulary!

                                    You probably will need some instruction along the way ..           but, like they say, Rome wasn't built in a day

so, "darn the torpedoes - full speed ahead" like Farragut said - supposedly            just love those old clichés, eh?!         *smile*

                          Whatever difficulties you have, just come back to this thread, or -- even possibly better -- start an appropriate new thread ...

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

Posts 8005
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 5 2014 4:04 PM

I joined the Faithlife group today now all I have to do is play "catch up" since the first week has already finished.  With my schedule I should be able to get done with chapter one between today and Wednesday and then jump on board with chapter 2 which should be done by the end of next week.  Then review during my lunch break.  Hopefully I'll keep up, if not I have another option to study Greek and that is Alan Black's Learn To Read New Testament Greek which allows you to "start reading Greek in just 17 lessons" (at least that's the claim he makes in his book).  It also claims that "Whether you are trying to write a solid expository sermon, prepare an accurate Sunday School lesson, or translate the New Testament, Learn to Read New Testament Greek is an essential guide." Also "The principles and methods used in Learn to Read New Testament Greek will enable rapid progress in Greek study. New information is introduced in small, manageable units, and points of grammar are fully explained and illustrated. After seventeen lessons you will begin reading selected passages from the Greek New Testament, and by the end of the course you will be able to read the entire New Testament with minimal reference to a lexicon." (That's a bold claim -- small print: subject to each individuals actual effort put into the lessons - hence results may vary...LOL).

So I'm really excited about these two resources.  I own Mounce's Basics of Biblical Greek (3 Vols.) and Alan Black's Learn To Read New Testament Greek.  I believe both will compliment one another.  Maybe do one chapter from each book a week or one one week from Mounce and one one week from Black...LOL...the possibilities are now endless! I may get Ray Summer's book too, since it seems pretty practical too, but for now Mounce and Black will suffice.

Blessings!

DAL

Ps. I'm sure you know this by now, but buy Basics of Biblical Greek Grammar and the Workbook from March Madness at 40% off and then get the 9.99 audio vocabulary separate, it'll be cheaper than buying the bundle, as "dynamic pricing" will make it a slight more expensive (must be a Zondervan thing).

Posts 4625
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Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 5 2014 5:20 PM

Blessings!           Be sure not to work too hard or too long!             Try to make learning a joy, eh?!!!

                   It's OK to "push yourself" when you need pushing; however, enjoy your language studies!    *smile*                 Approach them with joy and enthusiasm; and whatever you learn will be a blessing to you!

                                                                          Psalm 29:11

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

Posts 1547
Rick Ausdahl | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 5 2014 5:21 PM

I'm still hoping a few people will weigh in--at least on format options if nothing else.  E.g.

Logos has a Basics of Biblical Greek digital "Pack" containing just the Grammar book, workbook, and vocabulary audio for $59.95.

But elsewhere, I can get a Basics of Biblical Greek "Pack" containing printed versions of the Grammar book, workbook, vocabulary cards (including 1000 flash cards), printed laminate reference sheet, vocabulary audio, and the 36 lecture DVD series for $115.48.

Anyone with experience (or thoughts) on the pros and cons of the two packages?  Or even on the importance/quality/value of individual items in the packages? 

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Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 5 2014 5:43 PM

Peace!              *smile*               I'm about ready to give up my computer for the night ........       However, before I leave, please -- I have no opinion re your last post ...........                            Are these all Logos Resources?            I'm asking the question for someone else to answer you?

I don't think I've seen these "offerings" before from Logos??????

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

Posts 1547
Rick Ausdahl | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 6 2014 8:45 PM

Hi, Milford.  I've been out of town watching my four grandkids.  They kept me too busy to lay eyes on a computer screen since my last post, so just saw your last note.

I just wanted to confirm that the first group of items I listed are indeed all Logos resources.  They can be purchased individually or as a package. However, Logos does NOT offer the video lecture series noted in the second list of items.

The second group of items I listed are a combination of print, audio, and video resources that are not produced by Logos.

Posts 4625
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Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 6 2014 11:20 PM

Thanks so kindly for sharing!              God Bless you with Joy and Enthusiasm as you walk down this new side path in your life!           *smile*          Enjoy the adventure!   Enjoy His Word!             Enjoy learning!  Especially Enjoy His presence in your life!

                                      Smell the flowers!               *smile*

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

Posts 4625
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Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 6 2014 11:27 PM

Also, quite some time ago my daughter gave me a lovely iPad2 and now I'm also using it with Logos' newest free apps with the Greek and Hebrew flash cards using wordlists from my Logos 5 which I've supplemented from a couple sites in the Logos Groups!         *smile*

                I understand this App also works with other mobile devices...     I'm an old guy and am constantly amazed at what our Gracious God permits us, eh?!

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

Posts 149
David A. Peterson | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 7 2014 1:22 AM

Milford Charles Murray:
IF they get around to acknowledging you at all!

Ouch.  This one stung, lol.  I am currently serving in Afghanistan, and Sundays (as one can expect for a Chaplain) are pretty busy.  With the time zone differences and increased weekend workloads, I am not as prompt as answering questions or responding to comments as I would like.  I appreciate the comment, because it made me realize that I need to make more admins, in order to "load share" and ensure everyone is responded to in a timely manner.  I am also excited about this class, as we have a varying degrees of experience, knoweldge, and available time.  We currently have a weekly schedule, but the task lists could be spread to every other day, once a week, or combined for a one day block.

As far as the package, I purchased the Text & Workbook (2nd ed.), the vocab cards, and the Audio CD prior to deployment, as I had planned to work through the book, which I never got around to.  The audio CD and the Vocab cards compliment the Logos edition that I purchased during March Madness, and have been able to use the book to take with me when I go to places where there is no WiFi or computers aren't even allowed.  One benefit to the CD that comes with the book is that it contains the overview videos.  I used Mounce's Greek for the Rest of Us in Seminary (we had an English track), and am excited to increase my Koine knowledge and be able improve my Biblical knowledge and ministry to others.

In Christ Who Saves,

Dave

Posts 4625
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Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 7 2014 8:03 AM

Peace, David!                     Ouch, Ouch, Ouch is me!          Not you!            *smile*                    I was just trying to be a bit humourous and this is one of those situations in which humour miscommunicated!                              Truly sorry!

                      I really do like!                     appreciate!                         and respect!                  what you -- and we! -- are doing here

I was just trying to share with our brother that he shouldn't even think about getting "bent and twisted" about any potential or possible lack of attention because everyone has his own role to play in this group!                 So many of the group have so very many duties that it's wonderful that they are taking on more responsibilities because of love ..........        His Love For Us!                       AND !!!       Our "Responding" Love to Him and His Church and the Professions to which He has Called us!

                                 What's going on in this group is actually a "FIRST!"    -- on many levels!              I would think that Logos and Bob should really "watch" (monitor?!) this one to make something very good even better for the future....

                ......am a bit pressed for time also this morning; however, I'll get back to you    ...    and hopefully you'll find my remarks positive and helpful!

                                *smile*                                                                                                                   Psalm 29:11

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

Posts 1547
Rick Ausdahl | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 7 2014 8:44 AM

Hi, David!  Thanks for sharing.

If I understand correctly:

  • Everything you originally purchased prior to deployment, go with the "2nd" edition of the text book and that the text, the workbook, and the vocab cards are all printed versions of the resources.
  • During March Madness, you purchased the Logos digital version of the "3rd" edition of just the textbook.

Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I was under the impression that the 3rd edition of the text is organized quite differently than the 2nd addition and that it has additional material.  Do the workbook and audio CDs that came with the 2nd edition of the text book, still match/flow with the 3rd edition of the text and with the lessons on the Teknia web site that the group is following?  I guess I'm particularly curious about the workbook.

I'm still trying to determine the best route to go as I haven't yet committed to either the 2nd or 3rd editions of the text, nor decided whether to go with the digital or printed format of the text and workbook.  But my time is quickly running out if I'm going to have any chance of catching up with the Faithlife group.

Initially, I was just going to get the $115 package for the 3rd edition of the text referred to in my 5:21 PM post on April 5th.  Having no prior Greek learning experiences, I really liked the idea of having the full 36 video lectures that come with that package.  But then (seems there's always a "but"), in one of the reviews for the 3rd edition of the text in print format, I read some complaints that due to font sizes, colors, and densities, that the 3rd edition was much harder for "older" eyes to read--that the 2nd edition was better in that regard.  I'm one of those with "older" eyes.  Then (seems there's always a "then" too), I also saw the March Madness offer for the 3rd edition of the text.  That's when I started this thread and subsequently learned from Milford about the study group that had just gotten underway.  The group is following the program as presented on the Teknia web site, and if I'm not mistaken, that program is based on the 3rd edition of the text book.

Suddenly, it seems the factors determining which edition of the text to go with have become a little more involved than just the comments I'd read about the readability of the 3rd edition in print format.

Will greatly appreciate all thoughts/suggestions anyone may have regarding the above concerns.

The clock is running.  Tic..........Tic..........Tic..........   Acutally, I think it's more like, TicTicTic.  Tongue Tied

Posts 4134
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 7 2014 9:15 AM

I've been through mounces text (in print), and it was a solid platform. Studied for two semesters, the second half of the second semester we spent translating 1 john.

Would have preferred the digital edition, because of portability, tagging, and so forth. Ability to re-print pages and mark them up repeatedly if need be, and so forth. Especially for the work book. With a paper book, you get one chance to write in them, and then you're done.

L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, L9

Posts 149
David A. Peterson | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 7 2014 12:15 PM

RAusdahl:
If I understand correctly:
 Yes, RAusdahl, that is correct.

It appears so far that everything does match, but the disc material is also available for free at the Teknia site.  I would recommend purchasing the Logos editions, because then you are 1, able to adjust the font to whatever is comfortable.  Also, by having the electronic version of the workbook, I am able to print as many copies I want to work on, as well as cut and paste and create my own tests (yeah, I am a geek like that).  Another bonus I like about the Logos version, is that after I complete the course, and begin to work through the New Testament in Koine, I will be able to link and add notes to the sections from the text, that help me with the translation of the Greek text.

At least those are my thoughts <tosses the ball up at the buzzer>

DAP

Posts 149
David A. Peterson | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 7 2014 12:25 PM

Milford Charles Murray:
  I was just trying to be a bit humourous and this is one of those situations in which humour miscommunicated!              Truly sorry!

No offense taken, although not a prolific poster, I do read the forums frequently, and appreciate your insightful, encouraging and positive posts.  Thank you for clarifying, humor is often overlooked in postings, almost as often as it is misspelled [and that is an American/English joke].  

Milford Charles Murray:
What's going on in this group is actually a "FIRST!"    -- on many levels!

I am excited about the idea of a collaborative effort on His Word, and our imperfect understanding, and think that Faithlife could be used to this end, in a more scholarly or pastoral way.

DAP

Posts 4625
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Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 7 2014 12:58 PM

David A. Peterson:

Milford Charles Murray:
  I was just trying to be a bit humourous and this is one of those situations in which humour miscommunicated!              Truly sorry!

No offense taken, although not a prolific poster, I do read the forums frequently, and appreciate your insightful, encouraging and positive posts.  Thank you for clarifying, humor is often overlooked in postings, almost as often as it is misspelled [and that is an American/English joke].  

Milford Charles Murray:
What's going on in this group is actually a "FIRST!"    -- on many levels!

I am excited about the idea of a collaborative effort on His Word, and our imperfect understanding, and think that Faithlife could be used to this end, in a more scholarly or pastoral way.

DAP

Peace, David!           Thanks so much for your response!              What you are doing in Afghanistan is important and may God Bless and Keep you and your comrades.

                                        I hope the contribution we Canadians made in Afghanistan has been helpful; and we'll give the future to the Lord, I guess!

Three things:    1. I truly do find this study exciting and I commend you and Bless you for having undertaken it ...       *smile*

                                   I've mentioned elsewhere that I've studied Greek for many years (since the early 1950's!) ...    so, I'm intensely reviewing and updating and hopefully pushing aside any bad habits I may have acquired and am "refining" and "updating" my expertise and my knowledge and just plain plan to enjoy it!

                       2. You and the group will be in my personal prayers.  What you do here is important indeed!     *smile*

                       3. And!           There's egg on my face about humour and humorous!                Thanks for you comments ...       I've committed a major faux pas!                 Here's the real way to do humour humor humorous and NOT humourous!     *smile*

Wordwatch

A plain language guide to punctuation, grammar and writing well.

Humour, humor, and humorous

Falstaff by Eduard von Grützner

Image via Wikipedia

Here’s a tricky spelling conundrum that trips up quite a few people:

‘Humour’ is the UK spelling.

‘Humor’ is the American spelling.

So far so good. However, ‘humorous’ is the correct spelling in both countries. (Not ‘humourous’ in the UK, which would seem to be a logical extension of ‘humour’.)

With apologies to American Wordwatchers, one way for Brits to remember how to spell ‘humorous’ is to think of the ‘humorous’ way that Americans spell ‘humor’. (Geddit?)

Another similar word is ‘glamour’:

‘Glamour’: UK spelling.

‘Glamor’: an alternative US spelling (‘glamour’ is more usual).

‘Glamorous’: UK and US spelling. (It may help if you think of the ‘glamorous’ way that Americans sometimes spell ‘glamor’

     

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

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