Bug(?) Some issues with ReadAloud

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LimJK | Forum Activity | Posted: Sun, Apr 6 2014 1:53 AM

Logos,

I have a list of issues with Read Aloud in Logos 5.2a, the issue is the same for Logos for Mac an Windows (except the last point below).  I will use Lexham Bible Guide Genesis 12-50, as this resource is Logos owned.

  • Narrator continues reading after the End of Page and I would expect Logos to turn the page so that I can follow the reading. Logos does not turn to the Next Page, in the case of a long paragraph that crosses to next page. The page will only turn when it comes to a point where the “Golden Star” flashes (eg. the beginning of a new Paragraph, header, bullet points, citation, etc). 
  • When reading a Title in the resource, it is always broken into 2 parts. the First word of the Title, followed by an unnatural "Pause" and a Golden Star, followed by the reading the rest of the Title.
  • When you Pause the Reading anywhere in resource (like somewhere near the end of the page), when you UnPause / Play I would expect it to continue where I Paused. Instead, Logos blindly read from the First Word of the Page all over again. Same behavior as you use CMD+R to stop/pause and CMD+R to start/replay from the first word of the page (Ctrl+R for Windows).
  • When reading unnumbered bullet points, it always read “comma” as a prefix before reading the bullet point. (This is not an issue with Logos for Windows - only issue with Logos for Mac)

Hoping to see improvement in this useful ReadAloud function in Logos 5

JK

MacBookPro Retina 15" Late 2013 2.6GHz RAM:16GB SSD:500GB macOS Sierra 10.12.3 | iPhone 7 Plus iOS 10.2.1

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LimJK | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 7 2014 2:29 PM

Hi,

I noticed that when Logos 5 starts ReadAloud, it disable the Pause/Play Control from both the Keyboard as well as Ear Phone Control.

PS: I noticed that Volume Control (up and down) works from keyboard or Ear Phone Control ... only Pause/Play not working.

JK

MacBookPro Retina 15" Late 2013 2.6GHz RAM:16GB SSD:500GB macOS Sierra 10.12.3 | iPhone 7 Plus iOS 10.2.1

Posts 3171
LogosEmployee
Thomas Ball | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 8 2014 10:21 AM

LimJK:
Narrator continues reading after the End of Page and I would expect Logos to turn the page so that I can follow the reading. Logos does not turn to the Next Page, in the case of a long paragraph that crosses to next page. The page will only turn when it comes to a point where the “Golden Star” flashes (eg. the beginning of a new Paragraph, header, bullet points, citation, etc). 

You use the word "page" a lot in your post. This resource doesn't have "pages" per se, but I was able to replicate the behavior you describe her when in reading view mode. I'll write up a case for this. 

LimJK:
When reading a Title in the resource, it is always broken into 2 parts. the First word of the Title, followed by an unnatural "Pause" and a Golden Star, followed by the reading the rest of the Title.

I wasn't able to replicate this. I listened to the title "God Appears to Abraham at Mamre" in this resource and it read as I would expect it to. It read the title, then a pause and the citation, and finally one more Pause and the word "Overview." This is all as I would expect.

LimJK:
When you Pause the Reading anywhere in resource (like somewhere near the end of the page), when you UnPause / Play I would expect it to continue where I Paused. Instead, Logos blindly read from the First Word of the Page all over again. Same behavior as you use CMD+R to stop/pause and CMD+R to start/replay from the first word of the page (Ctrl+R for Windows).

I'm pretty sure it's always done this when the reader wasn't a human reading. Where the reading starts is a result of how the resource is tagged I believe, but I can ask about it to make sure. 

LimJK:
When reading unnumbered bullet points, it always read “comma” as a prefix before reading the bullet point. (This is not an issue with Logos for Windows - only issue with Logos for Mac)

I was unable to replicate this in the section covering Genesis 19:1-38

 

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LogosEmployee
Thomas Ball | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 8 2014 10:22 AM

LimJK:

Hi,

I noticed that when Logos 5 starts ReadAloud, it disable the Pause/Play Control from both the Keyboard as well as Ear Phone Control.

PS: I noticed that Volume Control (up and down) works from keyboard or Ear Phone Control ... only Pause/Play not working.

I can replicate this, but I'm unconvinced it is not unexpected behavior. The read aloud isn't the same as music or a movie, but I'll confirm this is or isn't.

 

Posts 183
Jacques | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 8 2014 10:50 AM

Pause, Go back 30 seconds (adjustable in preferences), Speed up speech... all of these kinds of controls would be such a huge welcome!!

Posts 1002
LimJK | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 10 2014 1:58 AM

Tommy Ball:

LimJK:
Narrator continues reading after the End of Page and I would expect Logos to turn the page so that I can follow the reading. Logos does not turn to the Next Page, in the case of a long paragraph that crosses to next page. The page will only turn when it comes to a point where the “Golden Star” flashes (eg. the beginning of a new Paragraph, header, bullet points, citation, etc). 

You use the word "page" a lot in your post. This resource doesn't have "pages" per se, but I was able to replicate the behavior you describe her when in reading view mode. I'll write up a case for this. 

Tommy,

Sorry, I was not clear with the term "Page". I did not mean Page as per "Page" tagged by logos in the most resources; I used the word "Page" in the ordinary sense of the word when I come to the end of the text I can view on the screen.

The issue exist not only in "reading view" which you can replicate (Thank you), it also happened on an ordinary "panel" displaying the resource as follows:

JK

MacBookPro Retina 15" Late 2013 2.6GHz RAM:16GB SSD:500GB macOS Sierra 10.12.3 | iPhone 7 Plus iOS 10.2.1

Posts 1002
LimJK | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 10 2014 1:58 AM

Tommy Ball:

LimJK:
Narrator continues reading after the End of Page and I would expect Logos to turn the page so that I can follow the reading. Logos does not turn to the Next Page, in the case of a long paragraph that crosses to next page. The page will only turn when it comes to a point where the “Golden Star” flashes (eg. the beginning of a new Paragraph, header, bullet points, citation, etc). 

You use the word "page" a lot in your post. This resource doesn't have "pages" per se, but I was able to replicate the behavior you describe her when in reading view mode. I'll write up a case for this. 

Tommy,

Sorry, I was not clear with the term "Page". I did not mean Page as per "Page" tagged by logos in most of the resources; I used the word "Page" in the ordinary sense of the word when I come to the end of the text I can view on the screen.

The issue exist not only in "reading view" which you can replicate (Thank you), it also happened on an ordinary "panel" displaying the resource as follows:

JK

MacBookPro Retina 15" Late 2013 2.6GHz RAM:16GB SSD:500GB macOS Sierra 10.12.3 | iPhone 7 Plus iOS 10.2.1

Posts 1002
LimJK | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 10 2014 2:42 AM

Tommy Ball:

LimJK:
When reading a Title in the resource, it is always broken into 2 parts. the First word of the Title, followed by an unnatural "Pause" and a Golden Star, followed by the reading the rest of the Title.

I wasn't able to replicate this. I listened to the title "God Appears to Abraham at Mamre" in this resource and it read as I would expect it to. It read the title, then a pause and the citation, and finally one more Pause and the word "Overview." This is all as I would expect.

Tommy,

I guess the reason you cannot replicate the issue, is probably because you accidentally picked the only 2 scenarios that I know it works properly Smile

  • May be your title appears as the first line of text on the Page (Oops ... I mean, First line of text in the Panel displaying the resource on the screen). Logos would read the whole title in one breath ... showing one golden star, as we all expected. or
  • Your Title has only one word, like in your case "Overview"

Let me walk you through step by step Smile hopefully you can replicate the issue.

  • Let us use the Resource - Lexham Bible Guide: Genesis 11-50
  • Some how navigate the resource so that the title such as "Place within the Canon" is not on the first line of text (see screen shot)
  • See the first star on the first screen shot, that is when narrator reads "Place"
  • The second screen shot shows the Second star and that is when narrator reads "within the Canon"
  • Repeat the above exercise on longer titles ... look for those titles where the first 2 words has to be read together ... to see more obvious effect.

PS:

  • I noticed that in Logos 5.2a SR1 ... the pause in-between reading the title seems more acceptable (?)
  • It is quite challenging for me to replicate, because Logos always start reading from the top of the page - just to rub it in Smile

 

JK

MacBookPro Retina 15" Late 2013 2.6GHz RAM:16GB SSD:500GB macOS Sierra 10.12.3 | iPhone 7 Plus iOS 10.2.1

Posts 1002
LimJK | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 10 2014 2:53 AM

Tommy Ball:

LimJK:
When you Pause the Reading anywhere in resource (like somewhere near the end of the page), when you UnPause / Play I would expect it to continue where I Paused. Instead, Logos blindly read from the First Word of the Page all over again. Same behavior as you use CMD+R to stop/pause and CMD+R to start/replay from the first word of the page (Ctrl+R for Windows).

I'm pretty sure it's always done this when the reader wasn't a human reading. Where the reading starts is a result of how the resource is tagged I believe, but I can ask about it to make sure. 

Tommy Ball:

LimJK:

Hi,

I noticed that when Logos 5 starts ReadAloud, it disable the Pause/Play Control from both the Keyboard as well as Ear Phone Control.

PS: I noticed that Volume Control (up and down) works from keyboard or Ear Phone Control ... only Pause/Play not working.

I can replicate this, but I'm unconvinced it is not unexpected behavior. The read aloud isn't the same as music or a movie, but I'll confirm this is or isn't.

Tommy,

Thanks for for helping to raise or ask about this issue for a simple Pause/Replay to be available. To help you justify for this ... I do not remember seeing any other digital bible (I am not suppose to name names of other Bible Software right), where "Reading" is available ... do not provide a simple Pause/Replay.  I hope we do not need to do a User Voice to have such a basic function to be considered.  Thank you for being our User Voice within Logos Smile

P.S. The behavior is the same in Windows. 

JK

MacBookPro Retina 15" Late 2013 2.6GHz RAM:16GB SSD:500GB macOS Sierra 10.12.3 | iPhone 7 Plus iOS 10.2.1

Posts 1002
LimJK | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 10 2014 3:21 AM

Tommy Ball:

LimJK:
When reading unnumbered bullet points, it always read “comma” as a prefix before reading the bullet point. (This is not an issue with Logos for Windows - only issue with Logos for Mac)

I was unable to replicate this in the section covering Genesis 19:1-38

Tommy,

Not sure why you cannot replicate. However, I observed that the first 2 screen pages do not have any unnumbered bullet points.  Let me try to walk you through step by step. 

  • Let us use the same resource Lexham Bible Guide: Genesis 12-50 as in earlier posts
  • Navigate to the screen shot as shown
  • At all the annotated area the narrator reads "comma" before reading the bullet point.

PS:

  • I recalled in the pervious release of Logos 5.2a and earlier ... "comma" was read for every bullet point (I am not 100% sure now), now it happens on 2nd and subsequent alternate points.
  • My System voice is Tom
  • Resource Support Information

JK

MacBookPro Retina 15" Late 2013 2.6GHz RAM:16GB SSD:500GB macOS Sierra 10.12.3 | iPhone 7 Plus iOS 10.2.1

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LogosEmployee
Thomas Ball | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 10 2014 10:23 AM

LimJK:
followed by an unnatural "Pause" and a Golden Star, followed by the reading the rest of the Title.

I had been listening to the narrator at a fast pace to speed up the process. When I slowed it down to normal speed (1x) There was slight hesitation between "Place" and "Within the Canon." There is also the slightest of variations between reading the start of the title as the top line, and reading first the reference on the previous line, and then the title of the next section. It looks like the hesitation is somehow due to the shift from one tag to another. I'll write up something for this. 

 

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LogosEmployee
Thomas Ball | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 10 2014 10:26 AM

LimJK:

  • Resource Support Information

Still can't replicate, but it may be because I'm using a slightly older version Mine is 2013-02-08. I'll see if someone else can replicate this. 

 

Posts 3171
LogosEmployee
Thomas Ball | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 10 2014 11:52 AM

LimJK:
The issue exist not only in "reading view" which you can replicate (Thank you), it also happened on an ordinary "panel" displaying the resource as follows:

I'm unable to replicate this behavior when the resource is set up in normal viewing mode. I started the reading with the title of "The Toledoth Pattern" and when the reading hit the second paragraph in the section at the word "Waltke" the page automatically moved up with a few lines before the word "Waltke" viewed. I presume it did this because the start hits that particular word because I think it is a milestone of some sort. 

Can you provide a screenshot of the resource in not reading view so I can configure my resource panel the same way? There might be a a large gap between milestones which, depending on where the text ends at the bottom of the panel and where the next milestone is, may cause the behavior you describe. 

 

Posts 3171
LogosEmployee
Thomas Ball | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 10 2014 11:56 AM

You may want to throw up a "User Voice" for this one, but I'll send a "suggestion case" for it too. I spoke with development today and brought this issue up. It sounds like aside from the complications for implementing this, the other support issues this could potentially cause are not unsubstantial depending on the user's settings and general setup. I personally could see hitting the space bar and allowing the voice to pause as helpful, as that is what most audio/video players use as their pause mechanism, but I don't know how difficult that would be to implement. 

 

Posts 3171
LogosEmployee
Thomas Ball | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 10 2014 2:27 PM

LimJK:
When you Pause the Reading anywhere in resource (like somewhere near the end of the page), when you UnPause / Play I would expect it to continue where I Paused. Instead, Logos blindly read from the First Word of the Page all over again. Same behavior as you use CMD+R to stop/pause and CMD+R to start/replay from the first word of the page (Ctrl+R for Windows).

Playing with this further, and this seems to be consistent across platforms, the reader is reading first the top line viewed on the page regardless of where the voice last was. 

 

Posts 1258
LogosEmployee
Dylan Rondeau | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 10 2014 2:43 PM

LimJK:
When reading unnumbered bullet points, it always read “comma” as a prefix before reading the bullet point. (This is not an issue with Logos for Windows - only issue with Logos for Mac)

This issue is only reproducible with certain downloaded System Voice narrator choices, and Tom is one of them. I couldn't reproduce it with any of the "default" narrators, so as a workaround for now I'd recommend the "Alex" system voice, which avoids the "commas" and sounds pleasant enough. Smile

I've made a case for a developer to look into why some voices stumble on the visual cues. The case brings up the "pause" in title sections as well, though I don't have a workaround for that, even with "Alex". If it gets fixed as well I'll mention it in the follow-up post. Smile

Dylan Rondeau, Software Tester

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LimJK | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 10 2014 4:34 PM

Dylan Rondeau:

LimJK:
When reading unnumbered bullet points, it always read “comma” as a prefix before reading the bullet point. (This is not an issue with Logos for Windows - only issue with Logos for Mac)

This issue is only reproducible with certain downloaded System Voice narrator choices, and Tom is one of them. I couldn't reproduce it with any of the "default" narrators, so as a workaround for now I'd recommend the "Alex" system voice, which avoids the "commas" and sounds pleasant enough. Smile

I've made a case for a developer to look into why some voices stumble on the visual cues. The case brings up the "pause" in title sections as well, though I don't have a workaround for that, even with "Alex". If it gets fixed as well I'll mention it in the follow-up post. Smile

Dylan,Smile

Thank you for making the case ... hopefully, the visual cues ... can help the developer hunt down the bug.

By the way all the newer and more realistic voices (from Nuance ... which forms the bulk of all the speech-to-text voices in OS X) that comes FREE with OS X Mavericks, Mountain Lion, Lion(?) display the same problem. Alex is not one of the desired voice, the pause is still there as you can see the golden star visual cue, just that Alex ignore it.  Thank you. 

JK

MacBookPro Retina 15" Late 2013 2.6GHz RAM:16GB SSD:500GB macOS Sierra 10.12.3 | iPhone 7 Plus iOS 10.2.1

Posts 1002
LimJK | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 10 2014 4:49 PM

Tommy Ball:

You may want to throw up a "User Voice" for this one, but I'll send a "suggestion case" for it too. I spoke with development today and brought this issue up. It sounds like aside from the complications for implementing this, the other support issues this could potentially cause are not unsubstantial depending on the user's settings and general setup. I personally could see hitting the space bar and allowing the voice to pause as helpful, as that is what most audio/video players use as their pause mechanism, but I don't know how difficult that would be to implement. 

Tommy,

While I understand they may be challenges that I do not understand, at least an alternative way to provide a pause/replay sounds like a good workaround.

I was hoping that raising the fact that there is no known credible "Bible Readers" around that I have come across so far that does not provide such a simple (from user's perspective) pause/replay function ... to help justify to the Logos Business owner to consider doing this Smile

JK

MacBookPro Retina 15" Late 2013 2.6GHz RAM:16GB SSD:500GB macOS Sierra 10.12.3 | iPhone 7 Plus iOS 10.2.1

Posts 1002
LimJK | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 10 2014 5:11 PM

Tommy Ball:

LimJK:

  • Resource Support Information

Still can't replicate, but it may be because I'm using a slightly older version Mine is 2013-02-08. I'll see if someone else can replicate this. 

Tommy,

Since you are running on a older version of the Lexham Bible Guide: Genesis 12-50, it is reasonable that our results is different.  I thought I will not cluttered this thread by responding to a few other of your posts.  If you need me to provide any other information or screen shots to help nail down the various scenarios I posted, do like me know.

PS:

  • I happened to like voices like Tom and Samantha. These Text-to-Speech voices I used are default ie. supplied by Apple as part of OSX that any OS X Maverick User would/can have.
  • I set reading speed to 1x ... I cannot do speed reading / listening Smile

JK

MacBookPro Retina 15" Late 2013 2.6GHz RAM:16GB SSD:500GB macOS Sierra 10.12.3 | iPhone 7 Plus iOS 10.2.1

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