WARNING TO LOGOS—slow down

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This post has 74 Replies | 5 Followers

Posts 277
Ergatees | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 1 2014 7:27 AM

it's underdevelpment under contract. Whenever,... Crying

So, I'm waiting and waiting and waiting....

Ergatees

George Somsel:

Ergatees:

Yep, I know how it goes. When it rains it pours!

Lots coming through in May. I look over my list carefully to see what I really want.

But, I've been waiting forever for Sophocles. And I refuse to cancel it.

Ergatees

Sophocles isn't scheduled for release yet.

Posts 853
Ron Corbett | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 1 2014 9:10 AM

I have often wished that LOGOS had a "Let You Down Easy" Policy - especially with some of the deeply discounted C.P / P.P offerings. Raising the price S-L-O-W-L-Y over the course of the next 6 months to a year. This would be a be help when their "presses" are cranking out resources faster than our resources can handle - but we can't justify "missing out" Wilted Flower on the DEAL.

Perhaps the "hook" would seem less attractive if we knew the price (bait) would be manageable in a few months.  

The "bait" is, after all - great product/super price.

Would LOGOS maintain their sales projections if this were not the case?

Might be worth an experiment - a trial run Geeked

Posts 2824
Michael Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 1 2014 5:46 PM

I am in the same boat as you folks.  My finances are limited, and there is a lot of Logos material that I have wanted that I could not afford when it was on CP / PP.

However, it is not Logos' responsibility to ease our pain or slow down production - nor do I want them to.

As long as there people to buy the product, they need to produce new resources whether I can afford it or not.  I hate to miss the CP /PP price, but that is life.  I could not afford the ICC when it was PP.  Hate that, and one day I will buy it, and hope to catch it on sale.  But should they have not produced it because Mike Childs didn't have the finances to buy it at the time?  That is crazy.

I couldn't afford the NICOT/NT when it was PP, but I bought it when I could afford it, though the price was higher.  I still consider one of the best purchases that I ever made, even at the higher price.  I have found buying slowly over nearly 20 years builds a pretty good library affordably.  You just can't have it all today.

That is life.  And I want Logos to publish more, not less.  Someday, some sale, I will get it, and though may cost me more, it will be worth the price, and I will be better able to afford it.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 255
Sogol | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 1 2014 8:41 PM

I still think a lot of this problem could be solved by the deposit/price-lock idea I mentioned earlier:(http://community.logos.com/forums/p/84088/589608.aspx#589608)

You put down a 10% deposit at shipment date to lock-in the pre-pub (or CP) price for a year from the shipment date.

If you don't purchase the resource during that one year period, or if you want your deposit back at any point, your deposit gets refunded to you but you lose your lock-in price.

With this, Logos could still continue to produce resources at a fairly rapid pace, but at least customers have some ability to smooth out the timing of when they make their purchases by putting down just a fraction of a resource's price.

Of course, the 10% deposit and one year time period may not be the right parameters. I'm sure customers would love it if a 5% deposit would lock-in your price for an indefinite period of time, but I'm not sure that would work so great for Logos. And a 20% deposit for a 6 month period might be more attractive to Logos, yet unattractive to customers enough that they don't bother using this system. So I suggested 10% and one year for now.

Just an idea, but I think it has some good win-win features. 

Posts 2824
Michael Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 1 2014 9:08 PM

Sogol:

I still think a lot of this problem could be solved by the deposit/price-lock idea I mentioned earlier:(http://community.logos.com/forums/p/84088/589608.aspx#589608)

You put down a 10% deposit at shipment date to lock-in the pre-pub (or CP) price for a year from the shipment date.

If you don't purchase the resource during that one year period, or if you want your deposit back at any point, your deposit gets refunded to you but you lose your lock-in price.

With this, Logos could still continue to produce resources at a fairly rapid pace, but at least customers have some ability to smooth out the timing of when they make their purchases by putting down just a fraction of a resource's price.

Of course, the 10% deposit and one year time period may not be the right parameters. I'm sure customers would love it if a 5% deposit would lock-in your price for an indefinite period of time, but I'm not sure that would work so great for Logos. And a 20% deposit for a 6 month period might be more attractive to Logos, yet unattractive to customers enough that they don't bother using this system. So I suggested 10% and one year for now.

Just an idea, but I think it has some good win-win features. 

Sure, that would be great for customers, but not so great for Logos.  The purpose in the low CP / PP price is to raise enough money to put books into production.  If you only raised 10% of the money, it doesn't help Logos, it hurts Logos badly.  It would also mean that it would take much, much longer to get resources into production.  It would mean many resources would never make production.  It would mean the CP / PP price would have to be much higher.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 255
Sogol | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 1 2014 9:42 PM

Michael Childs:

Sogol:

I still think a lot of this problem could be solved by the deposit/price-lock idea I mentioned earlier:(http://community.logos.com/forums/p/84088/589608.aspx#589608)

You put down a 10% deposit at shipment date to lock-in the pre-pub (or CP) price for a year from the shipment date.

If you don't purchase the resource during that one year period, or if you want your deposit back at any point, your deposit gets refunded to you but you lose your lock-in price.

With this, Logos could still continue to produce resources at a fairly rapid pace, but at least customers have some ability to smooth out the timing of when they make their purchases by putting down just a fraction of a resource's price.

Of course, the 10% deposit and one year time period may not be the right parameters. I'm sure customers would love it if a 5% deposit would lock-in your price for an indefinite period of time, but I'm not sure that would work so great for Logos. And a 20% deposit for a 6 month period might be more attractive to Logos, yet unattractive to customers enough that they don't bother using this system. So I suggested 10% and one year for now.

Just an idea, but I think it has some good win-win features. 

Sure, that would be great for customers, but not so great for Logos.  The purpose in the low CP / PP price is to raise enough money to put books into production.  If you only raised 10% of the money, it doesn't help Logos, it hurts Logos badly.  It would also mean that it would take much, much longer to get resources into production.  It would mean many resources would never make production.  It would mean the CP / PP price would have to be much higher.

There are a number of problems with what you just said.

First, Logos doesn't receive any cash from customers until a product ships. So this does not affect Logo's cash flow during the production phase of resources.

Second, for non-CP pre-pubs, it could actually end up being a net positive for Logos' cash flow, as it collects the deposits but wouldn't have to pay publishers until an actual sale took place. Logos essentially generates a positive cash float under such circumstances. That cash technically would not be booked as profit at the onset (more likely a liability in some form of deferred revenue), but it is positive cash flow nonetheless.

Third, the only way Logos sees a net long-term negative cash flow from this plan is if a lot more people decide that, instead of purchasing the product on shipment date and keeping it, they place a deposit but never end up buying the resource. However, as things stand, people are already threatening to cancel their existing orders and may never end up buying upcoming resources. At least with this plan Logos has a better chance at preserving those sales. The more likely scenario is that there is a delay in some of Logos' cash flow from these orders, but over the 12 month period the cumulative net cash flow works out to be the same or more positive than it's looking like it will be under the current system.

Posts 8893
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 2 2014 4:37 AM

Michael Childs:
I could not afford the ICC when it was PP.  Hate that, and one day I will buy it, and hope to catch it on sale.

I hope you have noticed that ICC is now constantly "on sale" for most Logos users with a higher base package, through Anglican Diamond.

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 423
Carmen Gauvin-O'Donnell | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 2 2014 4:38 AM

Hey all, as an outstanding reading resource on the information age and what it's done to us (and will continue to do if we don;'t take some smart steps)... may I recommend Tim Challies, "The Next Story"? It's available on Vyrso and was a real eye opener for me, and I speak as an absolute early-adopter GEEK! :-)

Believe me, it relates to this thread! Cool

Posts 927
Bill Moore | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 2 2014 6:33 AM

Long ago I cut back on Logos purchases, canceling a lot of community pricing/prepub offerings before they shipped. I have to ask myself if I really need this. The answer is increasingly becoming "no."

I don't blame Logos for this. It's just a fact of life. Funds are limited. It's up to me to be selective.

Pastor, Cornerstone Baptist Church, Clinton, SC

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 2 2014 8:38 AM

Sogol:
There are a number of problems with what you just said.

I believe Michael is correct. 

I appreciate you trying to help but I think Logos has devised better ways of handling the problem. Give sales a call and see if they can help.

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 525
Kent | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 2 2014 10:23 AM

I don't understand the nature of this thread. Do you really want Logos to slow down their production and release of product? This is not right, we want more and more and more... Feed me Seymore, Feed me.

Posts 853
Ron Corbett | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 2 2014 2:59 PM

I believe all of us will heartily agree !!

Posts 737
Evan Boardman | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 6 2014 5:40 PM

Well so far, the books I`ve decided to keep have been getting pushed back to a later shipping date.

Posts 81
Joseph | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 7 2014 3:17 PM

To be fair sir, a lot of content publishers don't permit Logos to put their products in a base backage. And I've been a customer since the Libronix days (Scholar's gold) and I've rarely seen the adding of new content to BPs except for upgrades (3-4-5), with some notable exceptations (i.e. Lexham titles, the publication of the new NIV, and the revision of the ESV). Upgrades do not happen very often, so while I hear you there really is no way to tell. If you value the specific title, go for it is my thought or upgrade to a base product (and take advantage of dynamic pricing) which it may  be in (now that Logos has several lines of Base backages). just my two cents. 

Posts 2824
Michael Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 7 2014 7:22 PM

I have noticed, and have not quite been able to afford it yet.

fgh:

Michael Childs:
I could not afford the ICC when it was PP.  Hate that, and one day I will buy it, and hope to catch it on sale.

I hope you have noticed that ICC is now constantly "on sale" for most Logos users with a higher base package, through Anglican Diamond.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

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