"Water" Rededication

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Posts 7217
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 29 2014 7:50 PM

Super.Tramp:

DAL:
I searched my Bible and is not there

Acts 19:1-5  is one case of re-baptising. 

Yes indeed! And they did so because they had it wrong not to recommit or rededicate themselves - that's all.  That's why I said we "re-baptize" people too or better said baptize them correctly not to claim we have the truth, but because there are instances where people have been baptized wrong or for the wrong reasons; hence, the need to be baptized "again" (or the right way).

DAL

Posts 1069
William Gabriel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 29 2014 8:37 PM

Paul C:

fgh:
Which is why the first recorded theological quarrel over Baptism debated whether it should take place on the 8th day, or directly after birth.
Would you share with me the details of this first recorded quarrel?

Yeah, I have not heard of this [the first recorded baptism quarrel], and cannot tell if it's sarcastic. If this is a real thing, I'd love for someone (fgh) to link to a resource.

Posts 10897
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 29 2014 9:01 PM

Prior to fgh's return,

Augustine logosres:npnf04;ref=Augustine.De_bapt._4.24 has an interesting logic.  

Plus Cyprian earlier: logosres:npnf05;ref=Augustine.Contra_duas_epist._Pelag._4.8.24;off=1803 (essentially take no chances)

"I didn't know God made honky tonk angels."

Posts 406
Paul C | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 29 2014 9:20 PM

I can't access the links. Are you asserting that this first debate took place in the time of Augustine?

Posts 10897
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 29 2014 9:37 PM

Not sure why they're not active, though they're easily decipherable (Post-Nicene Fathers).

I'm not asserting anything; that was fgh (and presumably an expert she has access to, that would track back through quite a bit of writings).

Cyprian is considerably earlier than Augustine (but Cyprian is quoted).

"I didn't know God made honky tonk angels."

Posts 18867
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 29 2014 9:48 PM

Denise:
Not sure why they're not active

a) For some reason the forum doesn't automatically turn logosres: links into live links, even if you type space after them (which you have to do for web URLs). But you can work around this by selecting the text after you paste it, then clicking the chain-link icon and pasting the link in again. So here they are as live links:

logosres:npnf04;ref=Augustine.De_bapt._4.24

logosres:npnf05;ref=Augustine.Contra_duas_epist._Pelag._4.8.24;off=1803

b) If in the forums you come across a logosres link that is not clickable, you can copy it and paste it into the command line in Logos, and Logos will know what to do with it.

Posts 10897
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 29 2014 9:58 PM

Thanks, Rosie!  I learned two things that will be handy (links on the forum and links in Logos!).

"I didn't know God made honky tonk angels."

Posts 406
Paul C | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 29 2014 10:03 PM

Thanks, Rosie

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 29 2014 11:06 PM

Super.Tramp:

DAL:
I searched my Bible and is not there

Acts 19:1-5  is one case of re-baptising. 

Note that the first baptism was "John's baptism" and not Christian baptism.  Normally, there is only one baptism in the name of the triune God

4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope of your calling, 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of all, who is above all and through all and in all.

Eph 4.4-6

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 29 2014 11:11 PM

The Episcopal formulary is rather similar to the Roman

The Renewal of Baptismal Vows

Celebrant  Do you reaffirm your renunciation of evil and renew your commitment to Jesus Christ?
People  I do.
Celebrant  Do you believe in God the Father?
People  I believe in God, the Father almighty,      creator of heaven and earth.  
p 293  Celebrant  Do you believe in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?
People  I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord.      He was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit        and born of the Virgin Mary.      He suffered under Pontius Pilate,        was crucified, died, and was buried.      He descended to the dead.      On the third day he rose again.      He ascended into heaven,        and is seated at the right hand of the Father.      He will come again to judge the living and the dead.
Celebrant  Do you believe in God the Holy Spirit?
People  I believe in the Holy Spirit,      the holy catholic Church,      the communion of saints,      the forgiveness of sins,      the resurrection of the body,      and the life everlasting. Celebrant  Will you continue in the apostles’ teaching and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in the prayers?
People  I will, with God’s help.
Celebrant  Will you persevere in resisting evil, and, whenever you fall into sin, repent and return to the Lord?
People  I will, with God’s help.
Celebrant  Will you proclaim by word and example the Good News of God in Christ?
People  I will, with God’s help.
Celebrant  Will you seek and serve Christ in all persons, loving your neighbor as yourself?
People  I will, with God’s help.  
p 294  Celebrant  Will you strive for justice and peace among all people, and respect the dignity of every human being?
People  I will, with God’s help.

The Celebrant concludes the Renewal of Vows as follows

May Almighty God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has given us a new birth by water and the Holy Spirit, and bestowed upon us the forgiveness of sins, keep us in eternal life by his grace, in Christ Jesus our Lord. Amen.

The Episcopal Church, The Book of Common Prayer and Administration of the Sacraments and Other Rites and Ceremonies of the Church (New York: Church Publishing Incorporated, 2007), 292–294.

Note that there is no mention of water or rebaptising though the congregants will sometimes dip their fingers into the font and moisten their own foreheads..

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 28991
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 30 2014 12:13 PM

Back on topic: http://kengcrawford.com/2012/05/04/a-service-of-recommitment-and-rededication-to-christ/ gives an example of a rededication service with water. Google gives several results for "Christian rededication service water" (without quotes) - some theological, some suggested services.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 7217
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 30 2014 12:22 PM

George Somsel:

Super.Tramp:

DAL:
I searched my Bible and is not there

Acts 19:1-5  is one case of re-baptising. 

Note that the first baptism was "John's baptism" and not Christian baptism.  Normally, there is only one baptism in the name of the triune God

4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope of your calling, 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of all, who is above all and through all and in all.

Eph 4.4-6

Yes, and though John's baptism was "correct" at one point, later on it was "incorrect" (not valid) when the "One Baptism" entered into effect. Yes

Posts 602
Bill Anderson | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 30 2014 12:32 PM

MJ. Smith:

Back on topic: http://kengcrawford.com/2012/05/04/a-service-of-recommitment-and-rededication-to-christ/ gives an example of a rededication service with water. Google gives several results for "Christian rededication service water" (without quotes) - some theological, some suggested services.

M.J,

Thanks for the link.

Posts 1995
David Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 30 2014 2:34 PM

George Somsel:

Super.Tramp:

DAL:
I searched my Bible and is not there

Acts 19:1-5  is one case of re-baptising. 

Note that the first baptism was "John's baptism" and not Christian baptism.  Normally, there is only one baptism in the name of the triune God

4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope of your calling, 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of all, who is above all and through all and in all.

Eph 4.4-6

There are some interesting ideas on the Internet about Christian Baptism being an adaptation of Hebrew ritual cleansing (Tevilah) including when one converts to Judaism. Logos forums are not a place to debate theology, but the OP raised some good questions about the use of water in religious rites.

Making Disciples!  Logos Ecosystem = Logos8 on Microsoft Surface Pro 4 (Win10), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone, [deprecated] Windows App, Proclaim, Faithlife.com, FaithlifeTV via Connect subscription.

Posts 130
Willard Scott | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 30 2014 6:41 PM

  

David Thomas:
There are some interesting ideas on the Internet about Christian Baptism
Yes. ... For instance:

“If I was in charge,” Palin said Saturday in Indianapolis, “they would know, waterboarding is how we baptize terrorists.”

Posts 1995
David Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 30 2014 7:06 PM

Nice way of taking half of my sentence to hijack it in a new direction. Tongue Tied

Making Disciples!  Logos Ecosystem = Logos8 on Microsoft Surface Pro 4 (Win10), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone, [deprecated] Windows App, Proclaim, Faithlife.com, FaithlifeTV via Connect subscription.

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 30 2014 7:19 PM

Willard Scott:

  

David Thomas:
There are some interesting ideas on the Internet about Christian Baptism
Yes. ... For instance:

“If I was in charge,” Palin said Saturday in Indianapolis, “they would know, waterboarding is how we baptize terrorists.”

As much as I like Palin, she should have said "If I WERE in charge …" since it is a contrary-to-fact statement.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 176
Bill Coley | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 30 2014 7:35 PM

Willard Scott:

es. ... For instance:

“If I was in charge,” Palin said Saturday in Indianapolis, “they would know, waterboarding is how we baptize terrorists

Nicely done, Willard.

Posts 2841
Michael Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 30 2014 9:31 PM

Bill, my denomination - the United Methodist - introduced a ritual very similar to what you describe, which is called "Remember Your Baptism".  It is in our hymnal, and is many of our pastors use it.  United Methodists do not re-baptize,  but I think, as you well said, that this is "an accommodation to people who were baptized was infants but want to be re-baptized.". United Methodists practice infant baptism, but do not require it.  United Methodist will baptize by sprinkling, pouring, or immersion, as the individual requests.

I don't like this ritual (despite its popularity) and never use it. (How does someone baptized as an infant "remember" his baptism?)  I know of no historical basis for the ritual.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 28991
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 30 2014 9:56 PM

http://www.interpretermagazine.org/interior.asp?ptid=43&mid=14625 is one of many decent explanations of this Methodist practice.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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