Russian Resources
How come I can't find a decent number of Russian resources? Logos is not popular in Russia? Do you know that the Russian Orthodox community is growing? Also, how come the only available Russian grammar is more than 100 years old? What does Logos do to improve the situation with Russian resources? Do you guys work on translating certain commentaries into Russian? What about all those Russian Christian books that are already out there?
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Welcome, Veniamin.
I would say it is because there are only so many hours in a day and their (Logos) resources are limited.
I would say, however, that they crippled L4 (versus L3) when they disabled support for auto-parsing of Russian references. Even in personal Notes, when I type "Ин 3:16", for example, it does not become a link to Jn 3:16. So, in fact, LOGOS has undermined creation of ANY kind of personal content, including Personal Books, Collections of personal Sermons, teaching materials, commentaries, etc.
This is unjustifiable by the lame excuse that they want to provide a great experience of their program and users have to wait till they are ready to get a lot of content, menus, tooltips translated into Russian as well. Sounds like throwing baby out with the bathwater.[:@]
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Welcome to the forums. Logos is expanding the number of languages in which they have resources. The thrust for Orthodox products is relatively new and has just added Church Slavonic resources. When there is the demand, I'm sure Logos will be quite willing to produce Russian resources. I don't share Toughski's evaluation of the changes between L3 and L4.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:
I don't share Toughski's evaluation of the changes between L3 and L4.
toughski said:they crippled L4 (versus L3) when they disabled support for auto-parsing of Russian references. Even in personal Notes, when I type "Ин 3:16", for example, it does not become a link to Jn 3:16. So, in fact, LOGOS has undermined creation of ANY kind of personal content, including Personal Books, Collections of personal Sermons, teaching materials, commentaries, etc.
Alright, let me put it this way, how would you feel and how would it affect you if NONE of personal content you created before or since 2009 supported any Scripture links? I thought so.
I would even say they disabled a perfectly working feature on purpose. Shame on you, Logos!
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toughski said:
I thought so.
I didn't lose anything as basic as the Bible references, but I did loose a number of timelines, the illustrations & tables in notes, the easy way to build a file of creeds etc. Some cannot be reclaimed, others require extensive reworking. If I were in your shoes, I would start chipping away at replacing the references ... or work with Logos to find/build the correct mapping to make the references work. I might be angry but I would still acknowledge that the mapping of verse references from one translation to another was a major step forward in Logos functions. I would agree that Logos underestimates the value of user created data and makes incorrect assumptions about how users wish to use Logos. But I would respond by constant pressure oard.on Logos to improve in this area rather than trashing Logos across the board. But, as I am sure you have noticed in your time on the boards, those are typical reactions for me ... as your reaction is typical for you. The world needs both kinds of responses.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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The are so many resources in Russian language. Why can't they make them available in Russian?
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MJ. Smith, how do they know, when there is a demand for certain resources? Why can't they work with Orthodox professors like Andrey Kuraev or Osipov to have more books available in Russian? Actually, I am 99.99% sure that these guys will be willing to give Logos permission to have their sources published via Logos for FREE. Also, Kuraev's books are already digitalized and freely available online. In my opinion, Logos has to come up with an idea how to create a bridge to Russian literature. Does Logos know that Grudem's theology is available in Russian? There are Church Fathers in Russian language, digitalized. There are articles, that may be beneficial for scholars, in regard to textual criticism. There is a Russian Orthodox Encyclopedia and Dictionary. Most of these materials have been digitalized recently. Why can't Logos make this available for like $10 each? All they have to do is have a letter of permission to sell these materials, and copy and paste them into Logos software. Moreover, somebody at Logos can work at making references within those books. The only problem that Logos might have is creating prices for these resources because most Russians don't believe in selling God's Word. But, if pricing will not be high, I am pretty sure, most Russians will buy into Logos. The Russian Christian community in the US alone is around 1 million people. The Orthodoxy is on the rise in Russia. If Logos could have their advertisement on major Orthodox websites, like www.kuraev.ru or similar websites, people will spend their rubles/dollars.
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I started a thread in the Orthodox forum to see what the response will be. See http://community.logos.com/forums/p/84530/592849.aspx#592849
Veniamin said:how do they know, when there is a demand for certain resources?
I don't know but requesting specific Russian titles in the forms is a good place to start.
Veniamin said:books are already digitalized
However, Logos still needs to tag them which means several supporting activities to make their tools work in Russian and someone who reads Russian well enough to provide solid quality assurance. I don't know what the startup cost is for a new language.
My advice: keep pressing for Russian resources and keep pushing Russian reading friends and scholars to use Logos and request titles. An encourage Logos to build relationships with dual English-Russian presses. You already know you have an ally in Toughski.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:
But I would respond by constant pressure oard.on Logos to improve in this area rather than trashing Logos across the board. But, as I am sure you have noticed in your time on the boards, those are typical reactions for me ... as your reaction is typical for you. The world needs both kinds of responses.
Thanks for your "kindness", MJ.
I am trying to be objective, that is why my original comment was
toughski said:I would say it is because there are only so many hours in a day and their (Logos) resources are limited.
if by "trashing" you mean me using words like "crippled" and "lame" than so be it.
MJ. Smith said:If I were in your shoes, I would start chipping away at replacing the references ... or work with Logos to find/build the correct mapping to make the references work.
- how do you propose changing the references? hard-coding every one of them by hand WHEN THEY ALREADY WORKED PERFECTLY IN THE PREVIOUS VERSION?
- how do you propose to "work with Logos" more than what I already have done by writing them numerous times and them coming out with the official response of "we disabled it intentionally... please stand-by... cannot give a ETA at this time..."
I am afraid, actions speak louder than words - Logos is lousy at supporting User Content (such as Notes, Clippings, Library tags, Personal Books, etc), since in their view, it does not contribute directly to their bottom line. But their grave mistake is not seeing that supporting User created content it builds them much more than that - user loyalty (think of Apple).
I will continue to use my good 7000+resource Logos library, but I am no longer loyal to Logos.
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In the past we tried to support many languages simultaneously, and found that without someone fluent in the language on staff we couldn't do a great job sourcing and producing texts, and without focused marketing we couldn't cover our expenses in a different language market.
Our new strategy is to focus on languages with dedicated staff and ongoing attention. We ranked the languages using various criteria, including how many people were running their web browser in the language when visiting Logos.com, how many customers were in countries where the language is spoken, etc.
(Of course this leads towards a bias towards languages where people are bilingual, and speak English, too. If someone only speaks their native language, it's unlikely they are visiting our English web site. But this at least gives us a starting point.)
The results have led us to focus on English, Spanish, Portuguese, German, French, Dutch, Chinese and Korean. English and Spanish already have strong support; this year we added product managers for French and German and we are hiring for the others.
After we get strong products out in these languages we will continue down the list and offer more support in other languages.
-- Bob
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Dear MJ. Smith, most Russian Orthodox Christians would never ask Logos to publish Orthodox materials. The reason is, that Logos is mainly a Protestant software. Russians have to have a separate Logos website in Russian language. I am probably the first or second Russian person on Logos forum, who specifically pinpointed good, modern Russian Orthodox authors. I can read and write in Russian. Also, I am currently working on my PhD in Biblical Studies. The questions is, what does Logos offer to their employees, and if they are willing to start a new language package. Your suggestion, "And encourage Logos to build relationships with dual English-Russian presses," is brilliant because it doesn't seems like Logos has any relationship with Russian presses at all.
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Dear Bob Pritchett,
There is no problem finding a person, who speaks Russian and English fluently. The best way to market Logos resources in Russian would be through Russian Christian portals, such as, invictory.org, jesuschrist.ru, kuraev.ru and etc. Most Russians would never get on logos.com because it's not in Russian language. I understand why you chose English, Spanish, German, French, Chinese and Korean. I don't understand why you chose Portuguese and Dutch. Also, keep in mind, Christianity is on the decline in English, German, Dutch and French speaking countries. If Logos wants to grow, sooner of later, it will have to turn to Chinese, Russian and Korean users. These countries experience growth in Christianity, unlike European and North American countries.
Regards,
Ben Anisovets0 -
Veniamin said:
Your suggestion, "And encourage Logos to build relationships with dual English-Russian presses," is brilliant because it doesn't seems like Logos has any relationship with Russian presses at all.
We have a relationship with Pokrov and Professor Osipov. One of his cornerstone works is on Pre-Pub in English here. I personally have connections with related publishers and websites in Moscow, but we are focusing mostly on English language resources at the moment.
We did recently introduce some works in Slavonic (since Slavonic, and not modern Russian, is the liturgical language for millions of Orthodox Christians around the world), and will gradually incorporate more and more original language tools for Orthodox Christians. Thank you for your interest and suggestions!
Product Department Manager
Faithlife0 -
The New Testament and Psalms in Russian. https://www.logos.com/product/25321/bible-translation-institutes-russian-new-testament-and-psalms
Mission: To serve God as He desires.
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Veniamin said:
I don't understand why you chose Portuguese and Dutch
I don't know about Dutch but Portuguese makes sense as Brazil is the only Latin American country not served by Logos Spanish edition.
Veniamin said:keep in mind, Christianity is on the decline in English, German, Dutch and French speaking countries.
However, in a number of African and Asian countries, English is a language that all can read while they speak a variety of languages in the home. It is more practical to cover India through English than 22 official languages or the 1600 native languages spoken in the home. Put another way, i own both African and Asian native scholar commentaries published originally in English and know of similar materials from Africa published originally in French.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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