What could be your suggestion?

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 12 2014 10:16 AM

Randy W. Sims:

I don't agree with polygamy, would never consider it, but if he lives in a country where it is permitted and if he is already married then he is responsible for his family and should continue to take care of them.

Totally personal opinion. Nothing whatsoever to back it up. I just feel the Lord would expect us to take responsibility for our actions and that He would hate divorce more than entering in to a marriage contract with multiple wives, before salvation.

Tes,  I totally agree with Randy here.  Just as I would not counsel a newly converted husband to divorce his unbelieving wife (unequally yoked), I would not seek to abandon the polygamist's wives.

Of course, this is only my personal opinion.

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 12 2014 10:32 AM

William Gabriel:
This isn't an issue we really have to deal with in the US,

When evangelizing among the Hmong I did encounter this. I bought a house in Saginaw from a Hmong fellow with 5 wives.

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 12 2014 11:01 AM

I think some of you guys have a 'kill switch' on your Bibles between Jacob and Herod.  I'd assume all your comments are equally applicable to Jacob, as today's example. Even in the first century, though Rome prohibited polygamy, the jews appeared to get a free ticket (Caesar laughing about the danger of being a part of Herod's family, and it always being an interesting question as to the validity of John the Baptist's accusation).

I don't advocate polygamy; I'm just always impressed at the guidance, in the face of social acceptability (or lack thereof).

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 12 2014 2:06 PM

abondservant:
I would be operating on the assumption that

Why would you make those assumptions rather than:

  1. He is a new Christian
  2. from a culture that permits multiple wives
  3. and is sincerely concerned about how to conform to his new Christian belief on marriage without acting in a non-Christian manner to some portion of his current family
  4. which may have arisen in a society that doesn't legally track marriage.

This is why we need more third world resources in Logos ... as well as more books on logic. Currently we miss many of the interest conundrums of applying scripture to life. I want the Dalit Commentary in Logos.

Sorry, abondservant, to use you to plug a missing commentary. Your answer was good for the context in which you meant it.

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Paul C | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 12 2014 2:25 PM

Denise:
I think some of you guys have a 'kill switch' on your Bibles between Jacob and Herod.
I'm grateful you specified "some of you guys." I submit you could have easily gone back one more generation. >>> Genesis 24:67

Can anyone show me where Scripture defines marriage as anything but an agreement between a man, a woman, and GOD? (We do see subtle nudges from the parents) Big Smile  Is there Evidence that there had to be a Man Of The Cloth presiding and Pronouncing a couple Man and Wife? ...Any reference to a marriage certificate provided by the government? Is there a limit on the number of wives...except for leaders? ... or are these all Traditions of Men?

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 12 2014 3:19 PM

Well, Paul C, you got me good.  Though to be technically correct, I was off by 2 generations (though the translation is touch and go, literally ... woman > wife).  

I'm actually somewhat mortified, since the good Apostle Paul based much of his gentile argument on a polygamist.

"I didn't know God made honky tonk angels."

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abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 12 2014 4:13 PM

MJ no excuse, just doing what most of people would do - assume that because you're speaking my language that we must be from the same country. That is to say typical american egotistic ethnocentricism :P. Something I see more of after a missions trip than I would a few years later.

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 12 2014 4:47 PM

NB.Mick:
There might be resources in a Logos library that discuss missions/church-building in African or Muslim context. Top of my head I think I saw a discussion of this in the WEA library

This proved to be one of the top search hits in my library, and it discusses polygamy itself, not the elder question:

  • a reflective dialogue written down by Walter Trobisch in a situation where the church required members to divorce all but the first wife (maybe this relates to a RC context in which the canon law was upheld [Pohle/Preuss wrote: "Polygamy proper, i. e. having several wives at the same time, cannot be a valid marriage", citing Trent XXIV Canon 2 which may have been adressed directly against Luther's opinion])
  • a socio-thelogical reflection on polygamy, advocating for the "true biblical ideal" of one man one wife, but strongly linked to the particular situation in one tribe and not adressing the question of what existing families should do. 

 

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 12 2014 5:18 PM

NB.Mick:
advocating for the "true biblical ideal" of one man one wife, but strongly linked to the particular situation in one tribe and not adressing the question of what existing families should do

I would like to be on the front row when these theologians explain their views to a newly -converted polygamist as he reads of the Old Testament patriarchs.  Geeked

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Paul C | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 12 2014 5:37 PM

NB.Mick:
advocating for the "true biblical ideal" of one man one wife
If it is a "Biblical Ideal", Wouldn't you think there would be Scripture saying so?

Please don't get me wrong. I certainly don't support polygamy. I'm more in the 1 Corinthians 7:8 camp.

Fact is: The "Institution of Marriage" has been turned into a ponzi scheme. The Church, The state, and the wedding planners/caterers all cashing in.  Sad   No different than the money changers in the Temple.

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Michael Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 12 2014 6:29 PM

Tes,

Your question was valid and reflects the culture of many countries.  We Americans are very ignorant of the issues much of the world deals with.

Forgive us our ignorant responses.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

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Schezic | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 12 2014 6:35 PM

Michael Childs:

Tes,

Your question was valid and reflects the culture of many countries.  We Americans are very ignorant of the issues much of the world deals with.

Forgive us our ignorant responses.

Just as much of the world may be ignorant of the issues we deal with. Such as  a plague of Prosperity Preachers.

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Tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 12 2014 7:34 PM

Tes:

A pastor  taught about ,how a Christian family should be according to the Word of God, at the end of his service he asked to the Congregation  ,mentioning about a certain part of his country  like this: “ Some people before coming to the Lord they had five wives and have children from them, in the new testament one  man should have one wife ,what would be your suggestion? “The question is what should be done?

I appriciate your contribution.

Tes, I am have been sitting on the side lines for quite some time, looking at the posts with different view points.  I remember 20 years ago discussing the exact situation that you brought up with the head of my mission.  What would be my suggestion, the quick answer would be that the man (the new believer) should NOT divorce or put away any of his wives!  If some of his non-christian wives wanted a divorce (to leave him), they were free to do so.   The best non-Logos material I can think of on this topic is at   http://www.opc.org/qa.html?question_id=419  To keep this post on topic, make it into a personal book. 

Tom

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Tes | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 12 2014 7:56 PM

Michael Childs:

Tes,

Your question was valid and reflects the culture of many countries.  We Americans are very ignorant of the issues much of the world deals with.

Forgive us our ignorant responses.

No problem Michael.

Blessings in Christ.

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David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 12 2014 8:02 PM

There is no Biblical reason to say anything since there is nothing Biblically wrong with polygamy. It may not be wise, but it isn't a sin by any stretch of the imagination.

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Paul C | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 12 2014 8:09 PM

Tom Rach:
I agree with the conclusion reached in this article. I strongly disagree with the reasoning used to reach it. The article states " recognize that your particular sin permanently disqualifies you from office in the church." I suggest that if one did not "know"/"believe" that taking multiple wives was a sin, and that transgression has been forgiven, It is not the transgression, but rather, The residual wives that disqualify him from an office in the church. >>>>James4:17       Therefore, to the one who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin. >>> Heb10 16,17 

“THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM
AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD:
I WILL PUT MY LAWS UPON THEIR HEART,
AND ON THEIR MIND I WILL WRITE THEM,”
He then says,
17 “AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS
I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE.”

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Michael Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 12 2014 8:10 PM

Schezic:

Michael Childs:

Tes,

Your question was valid and reflects the culture of many countries.  We Americans are very ignorant of the issues much of the world deals with.

Forgive us our ignorant responses.

Just as much of the world may be ignorant of the issues we deal with. Such as  a plague of Prosperity Preachers.

True, and I do not mean to imply that I am less ignorant than others. 

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 12 2014 8:20 PM

I don't think there's a need to apologize ... always easiest to apologize for other people. 

First, Tes knows full well how the world works; he's far more world-wise than most of us ... lives in Germany and great depth from Africa. Second, he knew very well there was a problem with an answer; else no need for the question.  And third, Africa and specifically Ethiopia was once the heart of Christianity and led the world in both faith and retention of important ancient records. 

So ...  continuing the conversation, one wonders exactly how the gentleman with five wives is going to comply with Jesus' commands (Jesus' language, by the way). I don't see how it's possible.  There's really quite a few situations that the Bible doesn't prohibit; it's just difficult to go forward and still respect the teaching of Jesus.

"I didn't know God made honky tonk angels."

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David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 12 2014 8:27 PM

The depth and breadth of the ignorance of Scripture among those who claim to be leaders in "the church" is staggering. In addition to the lies spewed below, the article vomits up this "gem" of witlessness...

  • First, marriage is intended to be between one man and one woman. It is a picture of Jesus Christ's relationship to the church (Ephesians 5), and thankfully Jesus is not a polygamist!

Mt. 25:1

Where is polygamy called a sin in the Bible? Oh, but it disqualifies for office in "the church"! You promise??

Nevertheless, this bozo proceeds to pontificate...

Paul C:

Tom Rach:
I agree with the conclusion reached in this article. I strongly disagree with the reasoning used to reach it. The article states " recognize that your particular sin permanently disqualifies you from office in the church." I suggest that if one did not "know"/"believe" that taking multiple wives was a sin, and that transgression has been forgiven, It is not the transgression, but rather, The residual wives that disqualify him from an office in the church. >>>>James4:17       Therefore, to the one who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin. >>> Heb10 16,17 

I am never challenged to believe anything other than Jer. 4:22. Absolutely staggering...

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Tes | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 12 2014 8:30 PM

Well, very strange my suggestion is:

1. The man doesn't have to divorce his wives.

2. He should not have sexual relation with any one of them anymore .

3. He should not marry as long as the wives  are alive and Vicversa.

4. He should take care of the women and his children equally and provide them their necessities.

5. The women should not divorce the man either.

Since God has given them a new life, I believe He could provide them also a way out.

I believe if anything should be made in the name of solution, what is not in the Bible . It is to write a book in the name of the Bible. If they have good understanding that the new Life in Jesus Christ is more worthy than in this world, certainly they will treat one another as brother and sisters in the Lord than their former life.

My dear brothers and sisters, I am sure for many of you my suggestion may sound as odd as the situation there, but never mind I hope you can still tolerate me. I highly appreciate your comments and all your thoughts sincerely

Blessings in Christ.

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