You Need This CP: Archaeological and Theological Studies of Jerusalem

I'm not trying to bid this down. In fact I just found it this morning.

https://www.logos.com/product/39933/archaeological-and-theological-studies-of-jerusalem

I just finished 'The Qwest' by Leen Ritmeyer (Carta). Basically it's a combined inch-by-inch (almost) analysis of the Tempe mount and its history. Immensely detailed with high-definition photos and 3D reconstructions, it's really hard to make progress reading it!

But what was interesting is that in 2006 (published), Ritmeyer had to use this CP (in print) to do most of his work. He had some observational stuff, and some recent but limited digs. But the bulk was the CP.

Why? This is one case where 'early' is critical. The politics of the Temple Mount locked in the ability to see what was under it and where.

Key sources (and nicely included in the CP):

- Charles Warren (who I think has the most data but I'm only a Quest veteran)

- J.T. Barclay

- Charles Wilson (along with Warren)

These three are heavily quoted in any attempt to 'go back'.

And not getting too the-o-lo-gi-cal here, but the Temple right after Pentecost held an odd attraction for believers that had listened to Jesus for maybe 3 years.

It's currently $40, which I'd personally pay just for Warren. Altogether there's 10 volumes. Frankly if I were Logos, I'd price them higher than $163 but who knows. If indeed Logos includes the plates, wow.

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Comments

Graham Criddle

Thanks Denise

Does look very interesting.

Graham

Paul-C

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/607176#Comment_607176

I'm in!

Bruce Dunning

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/607182#Comment_607182

I'm in!

Me too!

Jacob Hantla

Thank you for calling our attention to it.

DMB

Bump-erony

Our graph seems to be improving. Maybe by the 250th anniversary? Let's see 1864 .... add 250 .... hmmm .... 2014!

OK, so I'm always hopeful. The correct date might be 2015. We can always hope Logos has an anniversary celebration!!

For those 'an-ti-ci-pa-ting', here's an interesting blog article. I can't tell if the site is commercial or just really interested. I don't know the lady. Quite a number of interesting articles.

http://www.itsgila.com/headlinerswarren.htm

Gihon spring is really quite interesting, relative to where the Jebusites were potentially located prior to David.

Nick Steffen

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/610820#Comment_610820

Denise, I'm in. Have you heard from Logos whether or not the plates will be included?

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/610831#Comment_610831

Thanks, Nick.

In the mystical land of Logos, I have to use my magnifying glass set at full magnification:

'... narratives of travel and exploration, theological discussions, and archaeological discoveries, enhanced by hundreds of illustrations.'

'Over 4,500 pages of text and illustrations offer insights from a variety of perspectives, including those from topographers, linguists, architects, missionaries, and more.'

I agree, the plates are the 'gold'. Most of the plates were illustrations; not photos. Plus immense amounts of detail. If I worked at Logos, I'd be mighty disappointed without the plates. Not to mention customers.

Resources like these really work great in a Bible class, where the story combines Biblical history, detective work, and danger!

Lynden O. Williams

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/610836#Comment_610836

Ok, I'm in.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/610841#Comment_610841

Thank you, Lynden. And I enjoy your posts.

mab

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/610870#Comment_610870

OK, I'm in too. Thank you so much!

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/611026#Comment_611026

Thank you very much, mab.

As you probably can imagine, I'm usually not talented in the thank-you industry. But when it means a 'bump' to the thread, well, I'm gracious as all get out. (I'm joking as usual).

By the way, for those who can not bear to purchase without winning a sizable discount, I've no doubt this one will clear the $20-25 line after it goes over the $40 line. It's just too interesting to a broad audience.

But a $20 bid now won't get you those gorgeous plates (which we're not entirely sure of, but let's ignore that).

Charlene

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/611065#Comment_611065

And just to add my two cents worth: If you ever take any graduate or seminary course dealing Jerusalem , there are several books that are included in this collection that would be mandatory reading for that course! So bid now! This really is a good collection.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/611161#Comment_611161

Excellent (far more than) two cents, Charlene. I'd assume, if I were touring Jerusalem, it'd also be a fun series to have at my Logos-tips.

By the way, one of the CP books goes into the construction during the kingdom of Judah just south of the Temple mount. What's fascinating, was Manassah's construction (2 Chron), not unlike Herod centuries later. I knew Manassah had done quite a bit inside the Temple area, but missed the significance of construction south of the Temple.

Lynden O. Williams

Almost at the top.

Ron Corbett

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/611393#Comment_611393

I bid on this back in March. Any word - hints - from LOGOS regarding the plates Denise mentioned ???

Lee

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/611399#Comment_611399

I looked at the sample pages briefly. No plates.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/611400#Comment_611400

Yes ... no images in the samples isn't surprising, given the way the older books were published. If you look at the PDFs, Warren/Wilson appear to have been data fanatics first. I've often wondered if they knew their digging around would be the 'Bible' for more than a century.

Even today, reading 'the Quest' (mentioned above), so many of what you'd think would be obvious details, are still hypothesized.

I know most of the forumites are of the male variety, but tracing back where the women were as Jesus taught in and around the Temple catches my thoughts. The treasury was in what was formerly the women's area; did the poor widow slowly climb the stairs to find her place?

And being a former CPA, and just finishing a volume on the money economy in Palestine, just how did they move so much money, and where? (I'm curious.) The Temple was the bank.

The whole Temple area was a massive series of human distinctions and pecking orders instantly erased outside the ancient walls in a single afternoon.

Lee

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/611412#Comment_611412

Yes ... no images in the samples isn't surprising, given the way the older books were published.

The plates would be a big draw.

If the books are on some reading lists as Charlene says, I'm sure this would make it to development.

Charlene

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/611452#Comment_611452

I can only speak from my experience. I got my master's degree in archaeology last year studying in Jerusalem. One of the courses I took was "Jerusalem," which basically went through the ages concerning the city. Warren's books were used in several of the lectures and Barclay was used as well...I want to say that Williams seemed "familiar" but I could be wrong! [:)]

Lee

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/611517#Comment_611517

Congrats, Charlene. Kol ha kavod!

Charlene

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/611684#Comment_611684

Congrats, Charlene. Kol ha kavod!

Todah la'El!

Kent

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/611517#Comment_611517

I can only speak from my experience. I got my master's degree in archaeology last year studying in Jerusalem. One of the courses I took was "Jerusalem," which basically went through the ages concerning the city. Warren's books were used in several of the lectures and Barclay was used as well...I want to say that Williams seemed "familiar" but I could be wrong!

I hope your work involved more recent editions than 1876.

Charlene

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/611964#Comment_611964

I can only speak from my experience. I got my master's degree in archaeology last year studying in Jerusalem. One of the courses I took was "Jerusalem," which basically went through the ages concerning the city. Warren's books were used in several of the lectures and Barclay was used as well...I want to say that Williams seemed "familiar" but I could be wrong!

I hope your work involved more recent editions than 1876.

We got into the Mamluk period, but that was about as far as we were able to go in this particular course before time ran out in the semester...that is the problem with studying an ancient city like Jerusalem...you "only" have to cover thousands of years of history! [:)] BUT we did have some great field trips!

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/611993#Comment_611993

The little dot seems to be 'almost there' (subject to Logos investment strategies of course). I'd say we're at maybe 95%.

And yes, I have mixed feelings, if this CP crosses the line. The Classical Apostolic Fathers is 'in development' and appears to become very classical by the time it emerges. Will 'Jerusalem' be the same?

So much to fret about. Well, gee. If you've already got the promise of heaven, best to pick tiny things to fret about, right?

https://www.logos.com/product/39933/archaeological-and-theological-studies-of-jerusalem

And for any that are still looking for 'why' this CP??

Here's another example (my little rabbits know no bounds). I'm presently struggling through Dale Allison's 'Constructing Jesus' (Dale's far better at assembling a vast number of notes, than sticking with disciplined logic). Anyway he uses Judas the Galillean in part of his argument (which I thought stretched the bounds of parallelism). But surprisingly, our CP speaks to good old Judas himself. Well, howdy-do! I don't know but I'm also hoping to see more on the 'Alexandrian connection' that financed Titus.

https://www.logos.com/product/39933/archaeological-and-theological-studies-of-jerusalem#009

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/614403#Comment_614403

Wow!! Pretty nifty. It went 'over the top' on Friday on or about 1:07pm (give or take). Let's see. That means we have just short of a full week.

Hmmm .... let's do the math (this is especially tricky):

- CP price right now: $40

- Price on publishing: $162.95 (let's be thankful for that nickel discount)

Extra dinero should someone be 'asleep at the wheel' between now and next Friday noon: $122.95.

And that assumes no more orders for this resource. Not too shabby a savings for the smart ones.

Then there's the virgins that didn't prepare their oil: 'Oh my ... $162.95?????' A knowledgable Logosian drawls (Texas talk) ... yeh, I got it on CP for $40 back in 2014.

Actually that's exactly what Milford liked to do. He was a sweety.

And as they say in Japan ... mou ichidou? Sure ... https://www.logos.com/product/39933/archaeological-and-theological-studies-of-jerusalem

Bruce Dunning

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/615358#Comment_615358

- CP price right now: $40

- Price on publishing: $162.95 (let's be thankful for that nickel discount)

I think that it could make it to $35 and maybe even $30.

Kevin A Lewis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/615450#Comment_615450

any serious Scholars should have this set - let's drive the price down

Kevin A Lewis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/615787#Comment_615787

More bids needed - to drive this one down

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/616095#Comment_616095

Some folks probably wonder how these volumes can help in their own readings and study. And the CP does bounce around a lot in coverage.

For illustration, here's another example from my own rabbit trails. I'd always wondered just how the greek gymnasium fit in to the Temple area. Just judging from today's very-religious (e.g. jewish orthodox or muslim), a gym would have had to be a super-irritant. And maps do indeed show its location; just hard to imagine how it would fit in.

Plus, the gym would have been a 'player' for several centuries before the arrival of the Messiah.

Kevin A Lewis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/616140#Comment_616140

bump

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/616427#Comment_616427

I appreciate Kevin's help in 'bumping' duties. I get the feeling he may be in Europe with 3am bumpings!

Hopefully not boring anyone but demonstrating the breadth of interesting info. In the Carta volume mentioned earlier, a goal was to try to locate the original Temple. One of the early physical issues surrounding sacrifices on an alter, was the problem of disposing of blood. Certainly at the Temple where large numbers of sacrifices occurred. This quote illustrates the connecting of these volumes (the CP) to passages in the Mishnah, and thense to Josephus (all, by the way, in Logos of course!).

Kevin A Lewis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/616505#Comment_616505

Not in Europe - in the UK

Both are artificial concepts - but Europe the more so

Shalom

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/616609#Comment_616609

Ah so Kevin ... UK. Well, that makes even more sense! Here we thought you stayed up all night.

To continue our mini-blog (one more entry tomorrow before Rip Van Winkle-ess goes to sleep waiting for Logos' publication), below is a drawing from Barclay. The Barclay volume (in the CP) has quite a number of illustrations, most from the period before 'western civilization' arrived.

You'll notice the Xystus (gym) parked right up against the Herodian Temple platform, with another of the CP volumes noting a slow degradation in the Temple participation by priests in favor of greek culture (pre-Macabbees). Note also the 'mint'. Of course, as you read these volumes and then later archaeologists, the theories bounce around quite a bit on the pieces.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/616687#Comment_616687

Well, OK. We must bid adeu to this CP at 12pm today. And the Rip Van Winkle-ess will stop her nutty mini-blog.

If this is your first contact with this CP, take a gander .... you're likely to benefit from it in your library down the road.

Today's entry may be a bit uncomfortable for many on the forum. But it demonstrates the width of coverage for the volumes in the CP. This is a section that describes the chronology of the crusades. It's kind of interesting. At some points you think the crusaders are pretty much finished, only to read minutes later, the opposing side (variation of participants ... jewish, arab, persian) is in big trouble.

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/611322#Comment_611322

Thanks for pushing this through CP.

I'd assume, if I were touring Jerusalem, it'd also be a fun series to have at my Logos-tips.

Indeed. Which is why I really wish they'd release this soon. But I assume I'll be out of luck.[:(]

.

Interesting drawing. It places the Temple complex between the Dome of the Rock and Al Aqsa. Don't think I've seen that before.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/624758#Comment_624758

Well, I sure hope you got or will get 'the Quest'. Just the pictures and calculated drawings are worth price. I'd never go to Israel, and then buy the 'Quest' later. You've been there previously, but the minute examination of 'the rock' I'd have to do for sure.

And relative to Temple placement, the above drawing did seem a bit odd, since the fancy barracks I think were Roman (the foundations going back to the greeks). But I've seen arguments for the barracks almost covering the traditional Temple mount, with the Temple itself down below.

I'd suspect many don't see 'placement' as significant, other than trying to get the Wailing Wall inside the compound. I remain convinced the original had to be a royal shrine, located well below the more formal Canaanite/Egytian temples. I just can't see YHWH not BBQ'ing Solomon, when Solomon built the competitor temples in the most holy location (per Ezekiel and Luke).