Lessons from the Witherington CP

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Posts 1129
Keith Larson | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Jul 4 2014 10:44 AM

There are real demand for created when CP and Pre-pubs are offered at discounts of 75% or greater. I realize the resource from other publisher may not be able to be offered at this discount level, but there is nothing stopping Logos from initially offering their own products at this level of discount.

I think one of the reasons the Lexham Bible Guide series are languished in first Pre-pub and then in CP is the “Suggested Price” was too high. As nice as the Lexham Bible Guides are (and they are nice products) they are not worth the asking price. They offer far less “commentary” than traditional commentaries that cost a fraction of the price. Their best feature is their links to other books, but let’s face it, this makes them like the “price leaders” in your weekly grocery store ads or the “free” tune of the week from iTunes. Logos can sell them at a loss and still end up ahead. I know I have purchased books so the “locked” icon can turn into a “book” icon. I am sure I am not the only one who has done this.

In addition, we all know that they will eventually make it into some future base package. Take the Pastorum Series as an example. The Pastorum asking price is $240, with Dynamic Pricing and the 15% off discount I picked up the Chaplain’s Library for less than $120, plus I got a whole lot of other books to boot!

It would be interesting to see what would happen to the four Lexham Bible Guides in CP if Logos adjusted their “Suggested Bid” down to the 80% off range and featured them in their blog.

Posts 1564
John Kight | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 4 2014 11:37 AM

Yes

For book reviews and more visit sojotheo.com 

Posts 176
Rob | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 4 2014 12:35 PM

It doesn't seemed to have helped when they did that with the 4-volume Lexham Methods Series 

Posts 4763
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 4 2014 1:03 PM

Rob:

It doesn't seemed to have helped when they did that with the 4-volume Lexham Methods Series 

Interesting that you mention that...if I only had $60 and had to choose between the BW3 mEd class and the Lexham Methods series, I would take the Lexham series without a moment's thought. As much as I have championed a low, affordable price for the video course, I am 100% certain I would gain 100 times as much useful information from the Methods series. Logos users' bidding practices tend to baffle me on a annoyingly consistent basis, and the lack of support for this series is just one more example.

Posts 1129
Keith Larson | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 4 2014 1:19 PM

David Paul:

Rob:

It doesn't seemed to have helped when they did that with the 4-volume Lexham Methods Series 

Interesting that you mention that...if I only had $60 and had to choose between the BW3 mEd class and the Lexham Methods series, I would take the Lexham series without a moment's thought. As much as I have championed a low, affordable price for the video course, I am 100% certain I would gain 100 times as much useful information from the Methods series. Logos users' bidding practices tend to baffle me on a annoyingly consistent basis, and the lack of support for this series is just one more example.

I forgot about this series. I too am baffled why more people have not bid on this series. Reviewing the sample pages I just don't get it. Sure there are more comprehensive books on those four topics, but honestly who wants to read them? These are much more helpful texts (easily digestible) and only cost $15 each. A bargain in my estimation.

Posts 4763
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 4 2014 1:35 PM

Keith Larson:

Sure there are more comprehensive books on those four topics, but honestly who wants to read them? These are much more helpful texts (easily digestible) and only cost $15 each. A bargain in my estimation.

Exactly!! This series covers the fundamental approaches to Biblical interpretation without bogging down in all the minutiae that is often a pointless waste of time unless one is the business of wasting time through the scholarly pursuit of minutiae. Get these books, get up to speed, and leave the ponderous tomes for the scholars.

Posts 2058
GaoLu | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 4 2014 1:47 PM

[...who wants to read them?]

I think you are on to something.  I have no idea why I would want to read them.  And at that price I am not going to throw money around to find out.  I do not trust Logos' pricing or marketing schemes. Sometimes-incredible over pricing and sometimes awesome deals, many free!  But how do you know?

Maybe a better, more trust-worthy product review system? 

Posts 1129
Keith Larson | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 4 2014 4:18 PM

Gao Lu:

[...who wants to read them?]

I think you are on to something.  I have no idea why I would want to read them.  And at that price I am not going to throw money around to find out.  I do not trust Logos' pricing or marketing schemes. Sometimes-incredible over pricing and sometimes awesome deals, many free!  But how do you know?

Maybe a better, more trust-worthy product review system? 

Actually the topics covered by these four books are very important to understand. Granted what we see in the sample is a very little, but from what we do see it appears they cover the essentials adequately and in a way most people can understand. So you DO want to read these four books.

Posts 4763
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 4 2014 5:29 PM

I definitely want to read these...http://community.logos.com/forums/t/82190.aspx

Posts 6402
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 4 2014 7:28 PM

So...what are the lessons from the Witherington CP? 

I will say this from the other items you mentioned, though: 1) Lexham Guides are too expensive for "Study Guides" because that's really what they are (same thing goes for the Study, Apply, Share volumes - they're not even commentaries, just study guides), 2) I hope Logos doesn't fill Logos 6 with their "Lexham Press" materials AND out dated commentaries and leave out the premium commentaries like they've been doing lately (starting with Logos 4 LE), 3) I guess the Lexham materials are so expensive because Logos is self-publishing them and has to pay out of its own pocket to the people involved developing these materials.

For me, I see some use for the Study, Apply, Share volumes, but like the OP, I too had to purchase them as part of the "Chaps" base package or else I would have not been able to afford them.  Now as far as Witherington goes, for the price that it's going now ($55) I can spare that and test it for 30 days, but in reality, who has the time to sit and watch video lectures to learn about a book? What if Logos doesn't sell any more copies after it comes out of CP, does that mean they'll lose money? I don't think so, but I do hope more of this Mobil courses can be made available at a cheaper price, because they're too expensive for something that is not accredited (or is it?).

Anyway, hopefully it won't take forever to come out of prepub once it makes it out of CP.

DAL

Posts 2058
GaoLu | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 5 2014 1:52 AM

What can we learn from Witherington CP?

Supply and Demand.  People will pay what it is worth to them. I think CP does a reasonably good job of ferreting that out.   

Posts 499
SteveHD | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 5 2014 6:19 AM

Doug Moo NT331 Book Study: Paul's Letter to the Romans is 10 hours for $380.00, that is $38.00 per hour. When Witherington hits $50.00, for 13 hours, it will be $3.84 per hour. I would buy every Bible course (and several other topics) they offered if it was $3.84 per hour.

A restaurant offers a burger for $5.00 we all know what to expect. They ask $10.00 and we expect that burger to be very tasty and big. They ask $100.00 for it and we better have the other half of the cow to take home. Some clear added value.

I mention this because when I tried buying a different course I was forced to return it because I saw no other value in it by being a video. I thought these speakers were going to be using Logos themselves. They would show their own tips. Explain how they would prepare a sermon with it. It was just the person talking on camera with a slide deck.

I will say that mixed in throughout Logos had a product expert inject tips but I wonder if they will be the same across several courses? I did like that though.

Posts 10548
Forum MVP
Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 5 2014 6:25 AM

SHotchkiss:
I would buy every Bible course (and several other topics) they offered if it was $3.84 per hour.

Yes

Posts 212
Simon | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 5 2014 6:42 AM

SHotchkiss:

Doug Moo NT331 Book Study: Paul's Letter to the Romans is 10 hours for $380.00, that is $38.00 per hour. When Witherington hits $50.00, for 13 hours, it will be $3.84 per hour. I would buy every Bible course (and several other topics) they offered if it was $3.84 per hour.

At $38 a hour, I wouldn't spend any money on Logos Mobile Education. At $3.84 I would buy them all. So with high prices for Logos Mobile Education, Logos gets 0$ from me. With low prices they get a lot of dollars from me.

I guess I'm not the only one thinking this way. So I think Logos would make more money with Logos Mobile Education if they sell at low prices. And make more customers happy in the process :)

Posts 126
James Milne Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 5 2014 6:47 AM

Yes, me too. I would be happy to pay around $5 per hour, and would buy many of the modules immediately.

Posts 10177
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 5 2014 7:11 AM

Gee, guys ... I have friends in our tiny town that pay big bucks for Ehrman videos.  And they sit there and watch them too.  Popcorn and beers.

Without Logos for goodness sakes. 

Are you saying Ben's only worth a Netflix?


Posts 212
Simon | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 5 2014 7:21 AM

Denise:
Are you saying Ben's only worth it at $5 a pop?

Its not about 'worth', but about willingness to pay. A Ferrari is worth over $100,000, but I'm not willing to pay that amount of money for a car, even if the car is worth that much.

A video course is a nice way to learn, but for me it has to compete with books. So for me, the price shouldn't be more than the price of 2 or 3 academic level books.

Posts 4763
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 5 2014 9:01 AM

Simon:

Its not about 'worth', but about willingness to pay.

For me, it's about ability to pay.  Crying

Posts 10177
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 5 2014 11:42 AM

I don't have a dog in this issue, but it would appear they're pricing the videos at 2-3 times academic books.  Or at least 2-3 times what I'm paying for academic anyway.

And compared to sitting in on a class, it'd be a bargain. But I suspect classes are checkoffs for a degree.

But to be upfront, I'm not even willing to download a free Logos video. Chews up our cellular.


Posts 3048
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 5 2014 12:04 PM

Keith Larson:

Gao Lu:

I think you are on to something.  I have no idea why I would want to read them.  And at that price I am not going to throw money around to find out.  I do not trust Logos' pricing or marketing schemes. Sometimes-incredible over pricing and sometimes awesome deals, many free!  But how do you know?

Actually the topics covered by these four books are very important to understand. Granted what we see in the sample is a very little, but from what we do see it appears they cover the essentials adequately and in a way most people can understand. So you DO want to read these four books.

I still don't know why Gao Lu or I would want to read these books. At least most of the books Logos sells are about things that are very important to understand.

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