Footnotes without page number on some resources

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Immanuel Martella | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Jul 9 2014 1:51 AM

Hello,

While copying text from some resources to Word, the page number is not shown in the footnotes. Footnotes are enabled (Harvard Style).

Here some examples (a copy of some footnotes):

“Waltke, B.K. & Fredricks, C.J., 2001. Genesis: a commentary, Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.”

“Wenham, G.J., 1998. Genesis 1–15, Dallas: Word, Incorporated.”

But in other resources it is working:

"Elwell, W.A. & Beitzel, B.J., 1988. Baker encyclopedia of the Bible, S.364."

"Hubbard, D.A., Barker, G.W., u. a., 1998. Editorial Preface. In 1 Chronicles. Word Biblical Commentary. Dallas: Word, Incorporated, S. 115."

This is a big problem for  me. How can I get the page numbers in all footnotes? (I know about the “manual way” – I’d like it automatical).

Thanks for a quick reply!

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 9 2014 2:33 AM

Unlike print editions, electronic editions do not always have page numbers. You can check this on the Information page, where you might see "Page" opposite Indexes. And the citation style will determine if page number is shown

Dave
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Posts 11
Immanuel Martella | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 9 2014 5:59 AM

Thanks for your reply. I know that electronic editions do not always have page numbers.

But the resources I mentioned do have pages!

The "Page view" (Icon with 3 circles) is enabled so I can see the page numbers in the text.

= on "Information" I see "Page" opposite to Indexes.

I tried different citation styles and they all do not show the page number.

I really wonder because this affects different resources, while others are not affected!

Do you have another hint?

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 9 2014 9:11 AM

I've tried copying some text from the Genesis WBC volume and get page numbers in the footnote.

This is using SBL style - but I don't get page numbers if I switch to Harvard

If you switch to SBL do you get page numbers?

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Immanuel Martella | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 10 2014 5:47 AM

Thanks for your reply.

Yes, you're right! If I change the style I get the page numbers with SBL (on all resources)! This is a little step forward.

With Harvard Style (the one I need for my dissertation) it is working only on some resources... even inside WBC! For example:

NO: Wenham, G.J., 1998. Genesis 1–15, Dallas: Word, Incorporated.

YES: Hubbard, D.A. u. a., 1998. Editorial Preface. In 1 Chronicles. Word Biblical Commentary. Dallas: Word, Incorporated, S. 115.

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 10 2014 5:56 AM

Hopefully someone from Logos will be able to provide some insight into this 

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Tom Philpot (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 10 2014 10:07 PM

The lack of page numbers with certain resources when using the Harvard citation style has two do with a couple of things:

1) Logos always uses the Bibliographic style citation when copying footnotes, primarily because it generally gives more information that the footnote style for a traditional "author-date" format like Harvard. For example, In a research paper using actually Harvard style footnotes, a footnote might look like "Philpot 2014, p. 123." In a traditional Harvard formatted paper, you would of course have an Bibliography that had full bibliographic information for book, article, paper, etc this footnote referred to. In Logos, because we don't generate a full bibliography whenever you input a footnote, we currently opt to give you more information by providing the bibliographic style reference for styles that use author-date footnotes.

2) The reason that some resources in the Harvard style use page numbers and some don't, I think has to do with the type of resource, e.g. encyclopedia, book, journal, etc. I don't have your specific resources on my setup at home, so tomorrow at the office I can dig a little deeper and look at exactly the cases you reference and give you a more detailed explanation.

As a workaround for now, you can create a bibliography document and drag the selections of text you want to reference into it. Because you can change the style on the fly, you can see the page numbers if you use MLA or Turabian, but you can get the Harvard style rendering if you switch to Harvard. (Or you can do a similar thing with a clippings document if you want the text as well. Flip the clipping over and you'll see the citation.)

Hope this helps.

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 10 2014 11:28 PM

Hi Tom

Thanks for looking into this and the detailed response.

Tom Philpot (Logos):
Logos always uses the Bibliographic style citation when copying footnotes,

This is key informationYes

Tom Philpot (Logos):
The reason that some resources in the Harvard style use page numbers and some don't, I think has to do with the type of resource, e.g. encyclopedia, book, journal, etc

The two resources referenced by Immanuel above are both commentaries - and from within the same series - but the one which gives page numbers is indexed by Bibliographic Item while the other isn't.

So it looks as though it is in an indexing issue. 

Tom Philpot (Logos):
As a workaround for now, you can create a bibliography document and drag the selections of text you want to reference into it. Because you can change the style on the fly, you can see the page numbers if you use MLA or Turabian, but you can get the Harvard style rendering if you switch to Harvard

That worksSmile

So does this mean that dragging to a Bibliography document doesn't use the Bibliographic Item?

Thanks, Graham

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Tom Philpot (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 11 2014 12:28 AM

Graham Criddle:
So does this mean that dragging to a Bibliography document doesn't use the Bibliographic Item?

If you mean, "Does it simply copy the formatted bibliography reference as text and paste it in?", the answer is no. It uses what we refer to as "citation fields", which is all the possible citation data about the selection (or resource) that we have. When you select a style, each bibliography item is rendered, which is why you can change the style on the fly. Whether or not a style chooses to take that information into account depends on the style and how it formats various resource types. In this case, these books have the page number information at all times, but Harvard is apparently finicky for some reason. I agree with you that WBC should render the same across volumes, so when I get in tomorrow, I'll try to dig into why it doesn't with Harvard.

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 11 2014 12:44 AM

Tom Philpot (Logos):
I agree with you that WBC should render the same across volumes, so when I get in tomorrow, I'll try to dig into why it doesn't with Harvard.

Thanks TomYes

Posts 11
Immanuel Martella | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 11 2014 1:42 AM

Thank you all, for your replyes.
I tried to do it with the workaround (bibliography document), but it seems to me that by changing the styles I do not get the page numbers on all items displayed.

I didn't check all styles but here some observations that may help:

In the examples below the "Theological lexicon of the Old Testament" has a page number with Harvard and MLA, but not with Turabian.

The Abdidged Brown-Driver... shows with MLA "n. pag." what I guess should mean, that this resource has no pages.This is ok.

For Waltke (Genesis) I get the page number only with APA Syle.

Thanks for digging into it!


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Tom Philpot (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 11 2014 10:51 AM

It looks like both WBC 14 and WBC 1 have some errors in the citation data they are providing. I've filed bugs for those resources.

The problem appears to be that WBC 1 is not providing the "article title" field so "Genesis 1-15" become the "title" for the citation. In WBC 14, "Editorial Preface" is the "article title" (which is probably incorrect for page 115), but that causes "1 Chronicles" to be used as the "container-title" which is why you get a different rendering, (i.e. "Editorial Preface", In 1 Chronicles vs <i>Genesis 1</i>). The presence of the article title and book title happens to influence the display of the page numbers in this case, which explains why they render that way.

Unfortunately, there's no immediate workaround for this as the citation data isn't user editable and is supplied by the resource.

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