to cemetary, postponing starting Gk by 1 year?

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 11 2014 9:37 PM

I learned Japanese the same way I learned Greek. My father learned Japanese by a different method which probably explains why he became much more proficient than I.

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abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 11 2014 10:50 PM

MJ seems like it would be easier memorizing the things you are going to learn to use, rather than things that you aren't going to learn to use.

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abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 11 2014 10:51 PM

MJ. Smith:

Rosie Perera:
Lots of people who went to seminary call it that, because it has a reputation of killing your faith

Interesting - never heard it had that reputation before. I need to quiz my daughter-in-law.



It is a long standing joke... My pastor mentioned that they called it that when he was in seminary decades ago.

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abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 11 2014 10:57 PM

David Thomas:

 I fear that if he entered a seminary class with the opinion that he already knows the answer, he would be robbed of the pleasure of discovery that accompanies the teaching of a well trained professor.

I do not want to appear harsh or critical, because I have also been guilty of sitting in classes with a "less than teachable" mindset and it has been to my detriment.



I can relate here.

Having a BA in Biblical Studies causes one to have pretty much decided where one stands. Thus repeating some of the same classes has caused me to be less teachable and certainly less engaged in certain classes (most recently a history class...). Its something I've been praying about - that I will be teachable even especially when I think I know.


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Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 12 2014 5:59 AM

I would actually be very interested in the burials part, rather than weddings. I would eventually like to do as few weddings as possible especially avoid the homosexual weddings although I don't expect to necessarily be able to avoid the latter as they are everywhere. I hope I don't offend anyone by saying that. The denomination that offers most of the jobs over here (not in this City, but in rural areas to which I might be forced to move), has a strict policy that every priest has to wed homosexual couples and the seminary teaches that a lot in some of the last classes.

What I expect from the studies are that some parts of it such as Homiletics and Sociology of Religion will be challenging and that a lot of students will know their Bibles better than me (what I mean is that they will have memorized more verses), that there will be a lot of denominational stuff to counter, and that they will unfortunately in most classes teach very little from the Deuterocanonicals such as Ecclesiasticus. My strengths are perhaps that I've had a larger book-budget than the average student so I hope I will be able to write somewhat nice papers, that I know what doctrines I believe, that I may be more mature than some of the other students. But some of my weaknesses will be that I won't have any budget to go on short-term missions, that at this point I don't always feel as OK as others when it comes to things such as witnessing and evangelizing (if they start to talk about that in the corridor), and that no-one in the seminary goes to the same Church as me:

Sean:
"Cemetery" was funny, occasionally, about 50 years ago; one of the first rules of humor is "don't run the joke into the ground." It might get a pass from a graduate; from a prospective student it represents a very poor attitude to begin with. There are problems with seminary but also the people who attend there and their hangups, preconceptions, and unrealistic expectations. To a large extent, you get out of it what you put into it.

Also, as a caretaker for the dead, I have to say that some of us are genuinely trying to serve God and the church this way. A little politeness (i.e., not reflexively disparaging our calling) would be appreciated.

(Putting in a *smiles* to show I'm not mortally offended. Also ending my hijack here--not that the OP has much to do with Logos Bible Software either.)

(Logos Bible Software is excellent, BTW. Big Smile):

David Thomas:
I have seen examples in the forum of Unix recommending a preferred translation before he has even studied the languages. I fear that if he entered a seminary class with the opinion that he already knows the answer, he would be robbed of the pleasure of discovery that accompanies the teaching of a well trained professor.

I do not want to appear harsh or critical, because I have also been guilty of sitting in classes with a "less than teachable" mindset and it has been to my detriment. As Carson spells out in Exegetical Fallacies, there are too may examples of people assigning meanings to the text based on a little understanding of the Languages that are different than one reads when he understands gentle nuances of the language.

Since Unix has been provided with the means to sit under the instruction of trained professors, it would be good to allows those professors to do what they were trained to do.

Aply!
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Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 12 2014 6:24 AM

Perhaps I'm wrong about myself, but in the long term what would seem to be killing my faith would be lack of studies and lack of discipline to read. I haven't always studied a lot or read a lot of books so I miss that. When I'm for example on christianforums.com I often avoid participating just because I'm not on the level of some those who post who obviously have put some of the methods they've learned to good use. There are many things I won't learn without seminary as opposed to things I might do without such as something I mentioned in the first paragraph of my previous post:

Rosie Perera:
George Somsel jokingly calls it cemetery every time he mentions it too, and nobody corrects him. And English is his native language. He's joking and we all know it. It's an in-joke. Lots of people who went to seminary call it that, because it has a reputation of killing your faith, though it doesn't have to if you keep up your spiritual disciplines:
Sean:
If not, and you really think it is better instead to say "cemetary" every single time, I would suggest: not to go.

Aply!
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abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 12 2014 6:45 AM

Unix it sounds as though you may be less liberal than your seminary. In which case not being teachable may be a good thing.

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Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 12 2014 6:50 AM

Just a quick answer on this specifically: I may not know a lot of Gk compared to anyone here or the average seminary student, but I've been interested in English Bible versions for 9¼ years so I've read a lot about them and concluded some things such as that the ESV and NASU show bias and CEB has some weird renderings, despite that they've put some effort into the ESV and CEB. I'm happy I didn't use them - many have been using them and become very accustomed to them. I don't believe I will ever be able to translate close or better than them, the only thing I believe is that I don't have to use those versions, there are alternatives such as the 1971 RSV New Testament, Revised English Bible, New English Translation of the Septuagint, and NRSV for (parts of) Ecclesiasticus. As my oldest IRL female friend who is not a relative would say: "You don't have to be right about the jot and tittle, just pick something and use it." It's better that for a while I stick to something I've chosen for which I can make a case, than to think that following the Biblia Hebraica and Nestle-Aland 28th Edition or UBS Greek New Testament 5th Edition slavishly by using for example the ESV for the New Testament would somehow be a relief. There are too big issues with the ESV, NRSV and NIV11 such as gender-neutral language that goes too far, bias and/or too mainstream:

David Thomas:
I have seen examples in the forum of Unix recommending a preferred translation before he has even studied the languages. I fear that if he entered a seminary class with the opinion that he already knows the answer, he would be robbed of the pleasure of discovery that accompanies the teaching of a well trained professor.

I do not want to appear harsh or critical, because I have also been guilty of sitting in classes with a "less than teachable" mindset and it has been to my detriment. As Carson spells out in Exegetical Fallacies, there are too may examples of people assigning meanings to the text based on a little understanding of the Languages that are different than one reads when he understands gentle nuances of the language.

Aply!
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Everett Headley | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 12 2014 7:00 AM

FWIW,

I attempted to learn Greek on my own before I went to seminary, thinking it would be difficult and that I would need the extra time. I got a Greek Grammar and workbook and started in it.  I even had a friend who was a native Greek speaker help me.  The short story is that while I did pick up some of it, it didn't really help me in seminary.  I used a different text, the prof showed me better ways to learn, and some stuff we didn't even cover until second semester. My suggestion is to go and enjoy your time and not worry about it. I miss my seminary days and wish I could go back and listen to some of those guys again.

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Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 12 2014 7:25 AM

Someone else, or two others, in this thread also told to ask the prof which book they use, but in this case that doesn't necessarily help at this point as the uni has decided that in 2015 they revamp all the classes, restructuring what they will teach us and introducing new books. Until yesterday I was thinking I would like to see those new books, but when I got the notice I've now started to think that maybe I want to get used to the older, probably cheaper books at the entry-level and perhaps stand a better chance to use what I favour. At the higher levels having the newest books is more critical:

Everett Headley:
I used a different text,

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 12 2014 2:26 PM

abondservant:
In which case not being teachable may be a good thing.

I can't even imagine that being true ... questioning and refining are always necessary if you aren't guilty of supreme hubris.

abondservant:

MJ seems like it would be easier memorizing the things you are going to learn to use, rather than things that you aren't going to learn to use.

We have very different views of what it means to know a language - and one can't predict what one will use over a lifetime, only what one will use in a particular class assuming it requires no research or thought. Not to mention that for myself memorizing is not a good method of language acquisition.

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Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 12 2014 3:56 PM

Unix:
I would eventually like to do as few weddings as possible especially avoid the homosexual weddings although I don't expect to necessarily be able to avoid the latter as they are everywhere. I hope I don't offend anyone by saying that. The denomination that offers most of the jobs over here (not in this City, but in rural areas to which I might be forced to move), has a strict policy that every priest has to wed homosexual couples and the seminary teaches that a lot in some of the last classes.

I applaud your church for being so inclusive, but it is sad they should not try to force you to do something against your morals. While strictly speaking not the same thing I would never try to force bacon on someone who eats kosher or meat on a vegetarian. What denomination is it?

-Dan

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Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 12 2014 8:17 PM

It's not my Church, nor is it their seminary. It's the Liberal Lutheran Church. I'm not sure there is an equivalent denomination in North America. They have all kinds of liberal theology such as New Age. I have been to a local book store that sells New Age books and order one from the U.S. about nature which was good and I wrote a review on it in college. But I don't want the seminary or denomination to make that kind of a choice on my behalf as I wouldn't buy everything. Oh yeah and I also bought one book about politics and the environment, I think it was written in the late '70s:

Dan Francis:
I applaud your church for being so inclusive, but it is sad they should not try to force you to do something against your morals. While strictly speaking not the same thing I would never try to force bacon on someone who eats kosher or meat on a vegetarian. What denomination is it?:
Unix:
I would actually be very interested in the burials part, rather than weddings. I would eventually like to do as few weddings as possible especially avoid the homosexual weddings although I don't expect to necessarily be able to avoid the latter as they are everywhere. I hope I don't offend anyone by saying that. The denomination that offers most of the jobs over here (not in this City, but in rural areas to which I might be forced to move), has a strict policy that every priest has to wed homosexual couples and the seminary teaches that a lot in some of the last classes.

Aply!
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Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 12 2014 8:33 PM

Both the ELCA and ELCiC offer affirmation (actual marriage in Canada, I would suppose in the states it would vary legally state to state) of Gay and Lesbian relationships. In Canada the ELCiC will not force anyone to perform a wedding.

-Dan

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 12 2014 8:51 PM

Unix:
It's the Liberal Lutheran Church.

Is this different from the Church of Sweden which is a liberal Lutheran church? If so, what is its official name please?

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Paul C | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 12 2014 9:00 PM

Uh Oh!    The Plot Thickens. Surprise

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Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 12 2014 9:48 PM

Oh so You are familiar with it? Not that it surprises me that You are. Are You familiar with exactly how liberal it is? It's outrageous. I don't call them Christians:

MJ. Smith:
Is this different from the Church of Sweden which is a liberal Lutheran church? If so, what is its official name please?:
Unix:
It's the Liberal Lutheran Church.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 12 2014 10:38 PM

Unix:
Not that it surprises me that You are.

I grew up in an Apostolic (Finnish) Lutheran community and have a daughter-in-law who is an ELCA pastor with high church tendencies. So I have some familiarity with Scandinavian Lutheranism.

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Bill Coley | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 12 2014 11:54 PM

Unix:
Oh so You are familiar with it? Not that it surprises me that You are. Are You familiar with exactly how liberal it is? It's outrageous. I don't call them Christians:

It is worthy of note that, your conclusion about them notwithstanding, those folks probably would call you a Christian.

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Silent Sam | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 12 2014 11:57 PM

Bill Coley:

Unix:
Oh so You are familiar with it? Not that it surprises me that You are. Are You familiar with exactly how liberal it is? It's outrageous. I don't call them Christians:

It is worthy of note that, your conclusion about them notwithstanding, those folks probably would call you a Christian.

                                                                 Hmm HHHMMMmmm~~~ Hmm

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