Interesting price comparison

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Posts 525
Kent | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Jul 16 2014 4:44 PM

Received this email Price

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 16 2014 4:50 PM

So? Why did you post this?

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 16 2014 4:56 PM

Kent:
Received this email

If you can't tell the difference between an eBook and a Logos resource you ought to stick with cheap stuff.

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Bill Coley | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 16 2014 5:56 PM

Super.Tramp:
If you can't tell the difference between an eBook and a Logos resource you ought to stick with cheap stuff.

You have a way with words.... I wouldn't call it a pastoral way, but you certainly have a way.   Stick out tongue

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mike | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 16 2014 6:12 PM

I will buy them there. No problem for me. 

Thanks for the link. I hope Logos will match them for everyone. 

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 16 2014 6:24 PM

mike:
I hope Logos will match them for everyone.

Zondervan will not allow Logos to discount it's titles (so far.) 

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mab | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 16 2014 7:35 PM

I latched onto a couple of these when I received the email. I had one in my Logos wishlist but this will do for a start. If it's real useful, I'll definitely order it in Logos, but I'll get a head start on reading it for less than a trip to McDonalds.

The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter

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Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 17 2014 6:02 AM

I wonder why Zondervan has such a poor relation with LOGOS. Two other electronic publishers are offering Word Biblical Commentary for $300. I had thought of mentioning this bargain assuming LOGOS would be offering it too.  But when I checked Logos' website I was shocked to see the 59 volume set was still set at $699. 

-Dan

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fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 17 2014 11:47 AM

Dan Francis:
I wonder why Zondervan has such a poor relation with LOGOS. Two other electronic publishers are offering Word Biblical Commentary for $300. I had thought of mentioning this bargain assuming LOGOS would be offering it too.  But when I checked Logos' website I was shocked to see the 59 volume set was still set at $699. 

This may shed some light: https://community.logos.com/forums/p/86686/608901.aspx#608901 (read the first link).

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 17 2014 12:01 PM

Dan Francis:
I wonder why Zondervan has such a poor relation with LOGOS.

I wouldn't call it a poor relationship as much as extenuating circumstances. I have been told Baker books also can not be discounted.

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Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 17 2014 2:09 PM

Well it would be nice if the agency model that allows some to put things on an obviously publisher sanctioned sale could be offered by Logos. Now I have stated things properly I suppose but still frustrating. I remember in the past when Nelson had it under their control special offers on WBC seemed to crop up at both companies at the same time (the third company at that point did not publish WBC).

-Dan

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 17 2014 2:56 PM

Dan Francis:
I remember in the past

You remember correctly. 

I don't mind paying a little more to have a book in Logos format but to never have a sale gets a little discouraging. If only Zondervan would have sale prices I guarantee they would sell a lot more books.

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Kent | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 17 2014 5:15 PM

Super.Tramp:
I don't mind paying a little more to have a book in Logos format but to never have a sale gets a little discouraging. If only Zondervan would have sale prices I guarantee they would sell a lot more books.

Do you buy anything outside Logos? When buying a resource that is not likely to be used extensively, yet still needed for a period of time, buying it outside Logos because it is less expensive is the way to go. Students who need these resources for a class or paper are more likely to go cheaper and go outside Logos when necessary. Zondervan will capitalize on this demand.

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 18 2014 4:57 PM

Kent:
Do you buy anything outside Logos?

Yes. But only if it is not available in Logos and is not in the works.

  • I do keep my BibleWorks up to date but I do not buy add-ons
  • My last WordSearch purchase was the Complete Biblical Library
  • I haven't purchased anything in Accordance for about three years now.
  • I don't have a Kindle and I don't buy paper books for myself

Kent:
When buying a resource that is not likely to be used extensively, yet still needed for a period of time,

I like to own (and keep) all my books. I still have my Greek textbooks from the late 1970s

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Patrick S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 19 2014 3:40 AM

fgh:

Dan Francis:
I wonder why Zondervan has such a poor relation with LOGOS. Two other electronic publishers are offering Word Biblical Commentary for $300. I had thought of mentioning this bargain assuming LOGOS would be offering it too.  But when I checked Logos' website I was shocked to see the 59 volume set was still set at $699. 

This may shed some light: https://community.logos.com/forums/p/86686/608901.aspx#608901 (read the first link).

This information about the 'Agency Model' is, as I understand, no longer correct and I don't understand why a Logos employee (Phil Gons) would quote an article from 2010 from the ECPA website. If they are (still) following the agency model which the American DOJ went after publishers, as well as Apple, for then the DOJ (to be fair and consistent — if one believes the DOJ can be fair) should equally go after and sue Christian publishers and Logos (not personally saying they should of course).

Here is an information page about the agency model.

http://www.macstories.net/stories/understanding-the-agency-model-and-the-dojs-allegations-against-apple-and-those-publishers/

Of course the fact that Amazon was using the previous (and now after the DOJ efforts returned) model to drive out all competition and become a monopoly, and worse

http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2012/04/understanding-amazons-strategy.html

is another topic.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 19 2014 6:23 AM

Patrick S.:
This information about the 'Agency Model' is, as I understand, no longer correct

I don't think the "agency model" has been eliminated, I think it has been modified. Some books on Amazon say "Sold by: Amazon Digital Services." Others list the agency (publisher). See below:

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Patrick S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 19 2014 6:43 AM

alabama24:

Patrick S.:
This information about the 'Agency Model' is, as I understand, no longer correct

I don't think the "agency model" has been eliminated, I think it has been modified. Some books on Amazon say "Sold by: Amazon Digital Services." Others list the agency (publisher). See below:

That, I believe, relates only to the publisher, which in the first case you list is Amazon, not the selling model (wholesale or agency model). Amazon is also a publisher as well as a retailer of books sold by a (other) publishing house.

Regardless of which publishing house is the publisher of the book title the selling mode is back to wholesale — which Amazon now is continuing with in its plan to become a monopoly and a monopsony (def. only one buyer facing many sellers). For the monopsony aspect one only needs to look at what Amazon is doing with the Hachette publishing house.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 19 2014 6:56 AM

Patrick S.:
That, I believe, relates only to the publisher, which in the first case you list is Amazon, not the selling model (wholesale or agency model). Amazon is also a publisher as well as a retailer of books sold by a (other) publishing house.

The book I listed before was NOT an Amazon published book. Here are two more screen shots, from NOOK. These books are published by major publishing companies:

Notice that the Harper Collins book is "Sold by HARPERCOLLINS" whereas the Houghton Mifflin Harcourt book is "Sold by Barnes & Noble." 

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Patrick S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 19 2014 7:36 AM

alabama24:

The book I listed before was NOT an Amazon published book. Here are two more screen shots, from NOOK. These books are published by major publishing companies:

Notice that the Harper Collins book is "Sold by HARPERCOLLINS" whereas the Houghton Mifflin Harcourt book is "Sold by Barnes & Noble." 

There are two things being talked about here.

Firstly we need to be clear... the agency model is gone, finished. If you want to argue about that you'll need to talk to Judge Denise Cote who had her mind made up about that before the DOJ trial against the publishers and Apple even started. So there is no agency model, only the original wholesale model.

Second, regardless of who is listed as the publisher or the seller on Amazon — to you, as the end consumer, it is sold by (in the examples below) Amazon using the wholesale model. If you buy from Amazon you pay Amazon, whoever Amazon buys from upstream is irrelevant to this discussion. The wholesale vs the agency model discussion only applies to the final seller / end consumer transaction.

I'm sure everyone is aware of the publishing structure but to reiterate — the publisher is the organisation which works with authors, editors, book designers etc. etc. to create a book. The publisher may belong/sell to an intermediary book 'distributor' company (see last example below) which then sells books at wholesale price to a retailer. Amazon wants to control the whole process from start to finish because they want control, for control's sake, and to maximise (monopolise) profits. The issue many people have is that Amazon couldn't — really — give a hoot about quality or 'literature', they are (mainly) only interested in money, so they will tend to drive down the quality of books because [in the end] no-one will be making any money except Amazon.

"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 19 2014 8:45 AM

Obviously, someone is hot on the trail of Amazon. Sitting in its boardroom. Listening to the Jeff mumbling as he's sleeping.  Talking to spouses to detect Amazon's motives.  It's quite similar to religionist leaders who happily discuss what God thinks, his motives, and exactly what he's doing. At any given time too!

Capitalism is inherently monopolistic. Even in a small town, a mom/pop grocer attempts to control prices, drive out competition, etc.  Back when Walmart was growing, the accusations were the same.  Where the problem occurs is where prices are dropped to kill competitors, and then raised in their absence.  Apple & Co. were simply banding together to raise prices.

Amazon is successful due to its customers (me), and processes (still the best).  Authors/publishers are squealing because they want to be on the train, but they also want to charge their prices/margins.  Walmart said 'no'. Amazon can equally say 'no'.  The author/publishers don't yet have the equivalent of expensive malls to maintain their image/price structure.

This is where Bob & Co. have been smart.  Boutique software to sit underneath a higher price structure. So far, it has a market that values it.

Now, the same is occurring in health care.  Controlled doctor-creation managed pricing.  Insurance companies attempted to control the customer market pricing. Hospitals are fighting back by monopolizing the local markets (as here in northern Arizona, a single supplier buying up everything).

Capitalism marches onward.


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