Any thoughts of doing something similar to Amazon's new "Kindle Unlimited" subscription service?

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 18 2014 12:46 PM

EDT: I see this is posted in the Vyrso forum...

Are you thinking Logos or Vyrso?     

A few years back I suggested a subscription service to Logos.  I don't think Logos was very keen on the idea at the time. But later we saw the addition of product rentals.

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 18 2014 12:51 PM

Yes, but if you read the fine print, you actually have to read the book you download.  I suppose it's similar to 'all you can eat' where they force you to lick your plate.

I'm hopeful they have all my favorites.  In between renting and a subscription, I may just have lock myself in.  Ah gee.


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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 18 2014 1:34 PM

It's probably too early. We don't know if amazon will be able to make it work. And it's only a small subset of thier library. 

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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 18 2014 1:44 PM

Denise:
Yes, but if you read the fine print, you actually have to read the book you download.

I didn't see that in there, and how would they enforce it anyway? Give you a quiz on the contents?

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 18 2014 2:05 PM

Rosie Perera:
I didn't see that in there, and how would they enforce it anyway?

You do understand that this is "tongue in cheek" Denise who wrote this, right? Smile

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 18 2014 2:24 PM

alabama24:

Rosie Perera:
I didn't see that in there, and how would they enforce it anyway?

You do understand that this is "tongue in cheek" Denise who wrote this, right? Smile

I liked the "they force you to lick your plate" part. Stick out tongueI knew a sushi buffet that would charge you $1 for each piece of sushi you left on your plate.

I don't care much for the idea of a Vyrso subscription.

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Simon | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 18 2014 2:30 PM

I don't think the major academic publishers will agree with a subscription based model.

Take for example the NA28, published by the German Bible Society. The GBS knows that anyone who works or studies at a university where the Biblical languages are thought will buy the NA28. So what's the incentive for them to agree with a flat fee payment for every user (say 1 dollar a month), when they know that if they don't most people will buy their new editions anyway? For publishers of reference works that are standard works that will sell anyway (like the Anchor-Yale Bible Dictionary, like the major commentary series, etc) there is no incentive to agree with a flat fee based subscription model.

Now a non flat fee subscription model might work. Logos is actually is doing this already. For example the Baker Exegetical Commentary on the New Testament (BECNT) can be rented. The prices for renting are like 1/30 of the non-discount price on the website. But why would anyone use it?

Lets say you have the NICOT/NICNT series ($1700), the EEC ($749), and the Hermeneia and Continental Commentaries ($1380). At 1/30 of that price a month you would pay $3829 / 30 = $127 a month or $1270 a year. That's a lot of money for just renting. And after those 30 months you have spend thousands of dollars, an you have to keep paying to be able to use the commentaries. For most of us, commentaries are a long time investment, and we plan to use them for more than 30 months. Why would anyone rent them, if getting a loan or a payment plan means you pay about the same amount and get ownership? Only when you need a work for a really short time (a few months) renting would be interesting.

If 3 major commentary series will cost 127$ a month, consider how much all of works that Logos offers would cost. 

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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 18 2014 2:42 PM

Simon:

I don't think the major academic publishers will agree with a subscription based model.

Take for example the NA28, published by the German Bible Society....

You did notice, didn't you, that I posted this suggestion on the Vyrso forum. The only way it would make any sense to buy a subscription to "read all you want" would be if it were the cheapo "just for reading" books. Not the academic and reference books published in Logos format.

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Simon | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 18 2014 3:04 PM

Rosie Perera:

Simon:

I don't think the major academic publishers will agree with a subscription based model.

Take for example the NA28, published by the German Bible Society....

You did notice, didn't you, that I posted this suggestion on the Vyrso forum. The only way it would make any sense to buy a subscription to "read all you want" would be if it were the cheapo "just for reading" books. Not the academic and reference books published in Logos format.

I'm sorry Rosie, I didn't. For vyrso it would be a great idea.

For Logos it would be a great idea too (I would love to have all Logos books in an affordable flat fee subscription), but I guess that wish is not very realistic.

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 18 2014 3:10 PM

Simon:
For Logos it would be a great idea too (I would love to have all Logos books in an affordable flat fee subscription), but I guess that wish is not very realistic.

Based on what I have seen in the pricing of commentary rentals I would hate to see what an all-inclusive subscription fee would look like. $3000/month?

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 18 2014 3:48 PM

Yes, I'm always a bit guilty at the all you can read ... woops 'eat' .... places.

Well, I signed up the 30 day trial. Now to hire the jury.

I picked 'Description, Translation, and Explanation of Babylonian, Sumerian, Akkadian, Assyrian, Ugaritic, Anunnaki and Phoenician Cylinder Seals, Slabs, Inscriptions, ... of Mesopotamia and ancient civilizations)'    That seems like a bit of a mouthful.   I typed in 'Ugarit' and was surprised. Quite a bit is what I'd call 'stuff'.  But who cares?!  This is great!

I also typed in 'New Testament' ... hmmm ... probably would have to narrow it down some.

Of course, it just dawned on me, that I need to actually read these.  Hmmm. I'll be too busy with Kindle/Subscribe to order more Libronix.  Well, gee .... since it no longer works.

EDIT: Actually it's kind of interesting. I found a book on the hebrew behind the greek (NT).  I knew somebody had a hobby-horse but some of the points matched my hobby-horse, so I was going to subscribe.  But then I noticed it was free.  Tough decisions: should I get it for free or get it for free?


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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 18 2014 6:06 PM

I know here on Logos, you're not supposed to 'communicate'.  But I thought I'd better.  That overly-long titled book I tested out turned out to be a real doozy.  If you're from Sedona, you'll love it.  And it does 'sort of' connect to quite a bit in the OT and subsequent jewish mystics. But otherwise ...


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toughski | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 18 2014 8:41 PM

out of a 100 or so titles on my Kindle Wish list not a single one was available for Kindle Unlimited. This is pathetic. Now, if all the publishers agreed and you can truly read anything you wanted, I would pay more than $9.99

The only way to make a subscription model worthwhile is to get entire catalog available.

the other downside of Vyrso compared to Kindle is the audiobooks. Kindle Unlimited would be better value to me in that regard.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 19 2014 6:38 AM

toughski:
out of a 100 or so titles on my Kindle Wish list not a single one was available for Kindle Unlimited. This is pathetic.

That is why I am not really excited... yet. This will be a good value for SOME readers.

toughski:
Now, if all the publishers agreed

I doubt that will happen anytime soon.

toughski:
I would pay more than $9.99

I wouldn't. $10 seems about right.

toughski:
the other downside of Vyrso compared to Kindle is the audiobooks. Kindle Unlimited would be better value to me in that regard.

It is my understanding that a limited time offer with audible is available, but to use the audio books regularly would require an additional membership. I have never found audible memberships to be a good deal. I do like, however, the ability to purchase discounted audio books when I purchase the kindle edition of a book. I will sometimes pick up discounted kindle books JUST to get the discounted audiobook. An example: The Hangman's Daughter is a German murder/mystery series set in the 1600's. Amazon purchased the english translation rights to the series. On occasion, the kindle book will be marked down to .99 and the accompanying audiobook will be 1.99 (when you own the kindle book). Buying the audiobook for 2.99 is a great deal and is a fun read/listen.

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 19 2014 11:52 AM

Continueing the saga of the Amazon subscription, I downloaded a John Day book (YHWH vs Canaanite gods, similar to Mark Smith).  Customer reviews match the John Day book.

But what came down, was a completely different book but a badly scanned John Day cover.  I  notice some of the others I've downloaded are similar ... badly read-in, no TOC, etc.

As it turns out, the book I didn't order is interesting and just what the doctor ordered. 

But if one were a subscriber to what's known as discovery sampling, I'd say Amazon is just short of fraudulant.  

My impression (again from a limited series of downloads), is a sizable number don't qualify for a PDF, much less Kindle. And indeed I wonder if that's where they came from (PDF automated scanning and cover adding).

In any event, it really illustrates what a 'curated library' refers to (talking about Logos).

EDIT: I traced the 'book' to a JSTOR PDF (with an excellent author; J.A. Emerton).  I very much doubt Day or Emerton would ever sign on to a subscription service (since even the Kindle is pricey).  But who knows.


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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 19 2014 3:41 PM

Okie dokie. Pulled the plug.  Looks too loosey-goosey to me; I'll continue reading my Libronix books plus my Kindle books.

OT (and favorable to Logos): How to cancel Kindle Unlimited 'Manage Your Content and Devices' > right tab 'Settings' > scroll down for cancel button

I do hope Logos can do something similar.  The big issue (as noted above) is 'the books'.


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