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Posts 58
ZoesProudDaddy | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, Jun 13 2009 10:26 PM

Greetings,

I was just reading about the transfer fee's for Logos and I was curious why these fees existed when competitors (accordance for example) do not require a fee to transfer license from one person to another? Also, one more question. Why is it that downloaded resources are not transferable at all but disc based ones are?

 

Thanks :)

Posts 2774
J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 13 2009 11:13 PM

downloaded resources are not transferrable?  What does that mean?  Someday when I die, I cant even give my books to my kids?  I could transfer my paper book investment to my kids, why not my electronic investment?

My Books in Logos & FREE Training

Posts 58
ZoesProudDaddy | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 14 2009 12:00 AM

They are transferable but at a fee of 10% of each collection/resource retail price that you want to be transfering. So for instance from how I understand it if you purchased the gold scholars at lets say $1300 then it would be between $130 to transfer it. However that is just if you purchased the disc format, if you chose to go straight to download then from what I understand that isn't transferable.


Q: How do I Transfer my Licenses?

A:  Licenses for shippable products on CD-ROM or DVD-ROM, which come with a Serial Number, can be transferred from one person to another provided a License Transfer fee is paid. The transfer fee is 10% of the current Retail price for the product being transferred, with a minimum fee of $20. Either party involved with the transfer can pay the fee. We require the transfer request in writing (email is accepted) from the person to whom the software is currently registered. Please provide the following information:

  • The name and contact information of the current user, including email address.
  • The Libronix Customer ID of the current user. (This can be found under Help | About Libronix DLS.)
  • The name and contact information of the person receiving the license, including email address.
  • Recipient's Libronix Customer ID, if they have one.
  • The product name(s) and serial number(s).
Note: Licenses for unlocked, downloadable products are non-transferable.

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Ted Hans | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 14 2009 12:42 AM

alanleerosenaur:

They are transferable but at a fee of 10% of each collection/resource retail price that you want to be transfering. So for instance from how I understand it if you purchased the gold scholars at lets say $1300 then it would be between $130 to transfer it. However that is just if you purchased the disc format, if you chose to go straight to download then from what I understand that isn't transferable.

That is rather expensive $130 just for a transfer, in good conscience i cannot see how Logos can justify this. Something is seriously wrong with this policy! If the product is $15 to transfer will be $20 (the minimum fee)  now that makes sense!

Ted

 

 

 

Dell, studio XPS 7100, Ram 8GB, 64 - bit Operating System, AMD Phenom(mt) IIX6 1055T Processor 2.80 GHZ

Posts 390
Alain Maashe | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 14 2009 12:42 AM

The EULA says "As of 10/2007 the fee is equal to 10% of the manufacturer's suggested retail price of the products being transferred"

 My comments below are predicated on the fact that I understood the above correctly and that the policy is still valid

That means that if you bought the AB commentaries on prepub for $1500 you will have to pay (or the recipient will have to pay) 10% of the so called suggested retail price of $3,985.00 (not 10% of the $1,500 you paid)

almost $400 just to transfer the license of a resource that cost $1500 to begin with . That is more than 25% of the cost just to transfer it

This is strange since no one pays the suggested retail price for anything and everyone pays at most the sale price and many pay less than that (i.e. academic price)

I am curious to see the rationale for such a prohibitive transfer fee, blaming the publishers will not do this time since it applies to all resources and I doubt that the publishers came together and agree on such a fee just for Logos products

To put it mildly , I am not happy about it and I am very disappointed that such policy has been implemented

I would like to convince myself that this is not just a cheap ploy to force loyal (and not so loyal) customers to cough up up  to 25% of the price they paid when a resource or a set of resources change hands

If the EULA is still is force, I know it is legal, but is it ethical (considering that such transfer fees are usually restricted to company buying professional license and not individual making sacrifices to buy resources for the ministry)?

I would like to see Logos addressing that, if it is not properly addressed, I will consider taking my business somewhere else, even if it is just by principle and also to protect  my future acquisitions

 

Alain  

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Ted Hans | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 14 2009 12:57 AM

Alain Maashe:

I would like to see Logos addressing that, if it is not properly addressed, I will consider taking my business somewhere else, even if it is just by principle and also to protect  my future acquisitions

 

Alain  

I could not agree more with you, i think you are right on your take on the retail price. I do feel on this Logos really are trying to force loyalty on their customers. What surprises me is that Logos do not seem to see anything wrong with this policy. If this is not address properly i too may just consider going somewhere. $400 just to transfer AYB now that is pushing it too far!

Ted

 

Dell, studio XPS 7100, Ram 8GB, 64 - bit Operating System, AMD Phenom(mt) IIX6 1055T Processor 2.80 GHZ

Posts 2737
Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 14 2009 4:42 AM

I can understand there is a fee for total transfer. After I bought Scholar's Golden Edition I gave my previous license of Bible Study Edition (since I did not use the upgrade option) to my son and paid about 60 USD for that. However I felt very disappointed as I found I am not able to transfer some downloads to him. Since I buy everything possible in downloads because the mail fee is just too high to get it here in Europe, I just don't know what I would do if I would need to transfer all my library to somebody else after I don't need it anymore (I heard rumors, Logos doesn't come to Heaven with me). Smile

I just can't believe Logos would not change that policy eventually. There is too big competition out there to keep this kind of discouraging thing. One of the reasons you buy Logos (at least that's what I thought till now) is to make your investment into books safe. 

Have a great day

Bohuslav

Posts 58
ZoesProudDaddy | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 14 2009 8:24 AM

Hey folks,


For some reason my newsgroup account isn't working so I was wondering if someone wouldn't mind to post this on there as that seems to get more traffic from Logos employees. Like all of you I am very disappointed and concerned about this policy and hopefully someone from Logos will respond.

Thanks

Posts 58
ZoesProudDaddy | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 14 2009 9:59 AM

Alain,

This is how I feel. Especially just having purchased Anchor Commentary this is very disturbing. Although I am not a Mac user, if this policy is what it seems to be then I would have to think about selling my collection and using whatever amount I would receive to purchase Accordance even though its more expensive for the number of resources you would get. For many of us who have thousands invested in Logos and who one day may prefer to transfer our licenses to a loved one or someone who can benefit from them such a fee is very disappointing not to mention the inability to transfer downloaded resources. Hopefully a rep from Logos will be able to put our fears to rest...

 

Alan

Posts 89
JF | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 14 2009 11:55 AM

This policy is just not right at all.  Do I own the product or not?  If I want to give the product to someone ( such as my Pastor ) it should be my right.  I made the sad mistake one time of buying two of the same product on CD from Logos.  One was for me and one for by Pastor as a gift of love.  Boy was I shocked to find out when he tried to load it on his computer that it was licensed to me and we had to pay a transfer fee.

Posts 58
ZoesProudDaddy | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 14 2009 12:26 PM

JF:

This policy is just not right at all.  Do I own the product or not?  If I want to give the product to someone ( such as my Pastor ) it should be my right.  I made the sad mistake one time of buying two of the same product on CD from Logos.  One was for me and one for by Pastor as a gift of love.  Boy was I shocked to find out when he tried to load it on his computer that it was licensed to me and we had to pay a transfer fee.

In actuality you don't own the product. Even when you purchase a book at a store you own the book but not the words contained in the book. I personally understand that it isn't allowed to install software bought by one party on the computer of another party. For instance, if that was allowed we would be able to just buy one copy of Logos software and then give it to all of our friends to use. That isn't fair to Logos nor to the publishers of the works. What isn't fair imho is the requirement to pay Logos to transfer ones license to another party. Hopefully the company we have all come to respect and value will loosen their stance on this issue.

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 14 2009 12:54 PM

I agree with the many comments already posted in this thread. I am at the age when I am considering the disposition of Bible Software I have purchased when God decides to transfer me from this planet. The transfer fee is excessive, and the inability to transfer downloaded collections is irritating. I understand that Logos is a business for profit, but this goes beyond a fair profit.

Bob, we know you monitor these lists. What is the rationale for this?

 

Jack

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 14 2009 1:18 PM

JF:

This policy is just not right at all.  Do I own the product or not?  If I want to give the product to someone ( such as my Pastor ) it should be my right.  I made the sad mistake one time of buying two of the same product on CD from Logos.  One was for me and one for by Pastor as a gift of love.  Boy was I shocked to find out when he tried to load it on his computer that it was licensed to me and we had to pay a transfer fee.

I can fully understand that there would be a transfer fee since there is labor involved for Logos in reassigning the licenses.  I think this would best be handled on a flat fee per license basis to cover the employee's wages and a bit of a profit for Logos as well.  What I don't understand is that this should be a percentage of the list price. 

 

In the case of a gift to the pastor, I may not understand what has transpired.  If you purchased the product but never installed it on your computer, then whoever installs it should be able to install it with no further charge.  I gave some resources on apologetics to a friend of mine who is scientifically oriented (Anapolis grad, retired Navy, works as a consultant for SAIC frequently at the Pentagon).  If he had to pay a transfer fee, he never told me.  I'm assuming he didn't.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 58
ZoesProudDaddy | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 14 2009 1:47 PM

George Somsel:

 

I can fully understand that there would be a transfer fee since there is labor involved for Logos in reassigning the licenses.  I think this would best be handled on a flat fee per license basis to cover the employee's wages and a bit of a profit for Logos as well.  What I don't understand is that this should be a percentage of the list price. 

A fee of $20 or whatever it is to pay for the work of the employee is understandable. However, when you have people's collections up in the thousands of resources and thereby having the fee be in the hundreds if not thousands than that is ridiculous. Also, the idea that downloadable content isn't transferable is also something curious.

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Ted Hans | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 14 2009 2:55 PM

George Somsel:

I can fully understand that there would be a transfer fee since there is labor involved for Logos in reassigning the licenses.  I think this would best be handled on a flat fee per license basis to cover the employee's wages and a bit of a profit for Logos as well.  What I don't understand is that this should be a percentage of the list price. 

 

I am not sure what kind of labour cost that is involved that would warrant a transfer fee of $400 for AYB or other similar large collections (10% of the retail price) Logos competitors have labour cost as well for transfers & why should Logos make a bit of profit to transfer one's license? To meet their adminstrative cost, yes i agree but to profit no. They have already made profit from the items sold, & i hope there is some reasonable explanation.

Ted

 

Dell, studio XPS 7100, Ram 8GB, 64 - bit Operating System, AMD Phenom(mt) IIX6 1055T Processor 2.80 GHZ

Posts 58
ZoesProudDaddy | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 14 2009 2:59 PM

Ted Hans:

 

I am not sure what kind of labour cost that is involved that would warrant a transfer fee of $400 for AYB or other similar large collections (10% of the retail price) Logos competitors have labour cost as well for transfers & why should Logos make a bit of profit to transfer one's license? To meet their adminstrative cost, yes i agree but to profit no. They have already made profit from the item sold, & i hope there is some reasonable explanation.

Ted

 

Actually from what I understand Accordance doesn't require a fee to transfer licenses.

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Ted Hans | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 14 2009 3:10 PM

alanleerosenaur:

Actually from what I understand Accordance doesn't require a fee to transfer licenses.

Interesting, even better though i think Logos could make an administrative case. Still i do not get this, a product cost $15 but to transfer the license would cost $20.

Ted

 

Dell, studio XPS 7100, Ram 8GB, 64 - bit Operating System, AMD Phenom(mt) IIX6 1055T Processor 2.80 GHZ

Posts 58
ZoesProudDaddy | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 14 2009 3:16 PM

Exactly Ted. I really am looking forward to get some clarification from the folks at Logos, hopefully in this thread or on the Newsgroup. It really is an important issue. As the library of Logos grows and people's personal library continues to expand this question will become a more frequent one imho.

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 14 2009 3:42 PM

Bohuslav Wojnar:
can understand there is a fee for total transfer. After I bought Scholar's Golden Edition I gave my previous license of Bible Study Edition (since I did not use the upgrade option) to my son and paid about 60 USD for that. However I felt very disappointed as I found I am not able to transfer some downloads to him. Since I buy everything possible in downloads because the mail fee is just too high to get it here in Europe, I just don't know what I would do if I would need to transfer all my library to somebody else after I don't need it anymore (I heard rumors, Logos doesn't come to Heaven with me). Smile

There is a solution to passing on your resources to your next of kin if you keep the entire collection intact.  That is to simply pass the license to them as well so they can then access the resources under your license.  Logos may not like it, but I see no way they can stop it.  The only fly in the ointment is if the recipient of your largesse then wishes to add resources.  That could create a problem -- though perhaps not if they were able to purchase them using your account.

BTW:  Who says you're going to heaven anyway?  Do you think old farts like us make it?  Big Smile

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 2737
Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 14 2009 9:23 PM

George Somsel:
BTW:  Who says you're going to heaven anyway?  Do you think old farts like us make it?  Big Smile

Hey guys, George wants to start a new polemic on the salvation assurance Smile ...Don't go to Heaven alone, take somebody with you... (not something, ha)

George Somsel:
There is a solution to passing on your resources to your next of kin if you keep the entire collection intact.  That is to simply pass the license to them as well so they can then access the resources under your license.

Yes, that was what I always thought would be possible but not exactly kosher. There should be an official way of just changing the name, address and card info in the continuing license. If that would be the case, I would understand at least the heritage matter. The other transfers and downloads still would be unsolved. Looking forward to hearing on that from Logos.

Bohuslav

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