Personal Book Site

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This post has 27 Replies | 7 Followers

Posts 212
Simon | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Jul 22 2014 1:01 PM

I'm thinking about creating a Logos Personal Book site, where all available Logos PBB's will be collected, can be viewed and searched by author, title, language, etc. Users can upload their own PBB's to the site (at the first upload the uploaded PBB will be checked, and if found OK the PBB will be placed and the user will be authorized to place PBB's directly to the site).

If possible, I also will create a PBB Downloader, which gives a list of available PBBs, a user can check the PBB's he/she wants to have, and the PBB Downloader downloads the files and adds the PBB's to Logos.

I would like to know what you think of this idea. It's only worth spending time creating such a site if there are enough people interested.

Posts 758
David A Egolf | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 22 2014 1:11 PM

Who will have the legal responsibility if copyrighted material is distributed inappropriately?

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Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 22 2014 1:23 PM

I would be interested, but David's question must be taken seriously.

Everything ever written in Religion and Theology formatted for Logos Bible Software.Logos Youtube Channel

Posts 2087
GaoLu | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 22 2014 2:42 PM

I am interested.  There needs to be a way to be assured that the content we download is legal. 

Posts 5252
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 22 2014 3:26 PM

A disclaimer might work. Something to the effect:

This site is dedicated to freely sharing personal books, all works posted here are believed to be public domain or have received permission for non commercial distribution. Contact us immediately if you spot a violation of copyright.  

Posts 212
Simon | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 23 2014 1:13 AM

David A Egolf:

Who will have the legal responsibility if copyrighted material is distributed inappropriately?

I have my own hosting company in the Netherlands, and my experience is that as long as you have a good disclaimer on your site, and there is a possibility to report an item as copyrighted (and actually remove items if reported as copyrighted), you don't have anything to fear.

Legally, under Dutch law (my hosting company is located in the Netherlands) the uploader is responsible. Only if the website encourage the distribution of illegal material, the website owner becomes legally responsible. This applies not to private websites, but does apply to public websites (like a forum, or a file distribution site).

The best way to prevent legal problems is to check regularly if the uploaded works are copyright free, and when someone complains just remove the files if they are right, and send a kind mail saying you're sorry this happened and explain that the goal of the website is the distribution of public domain works.

Posts 212
Simon | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 24 2014 7:09 AM

I've decided to build the website. Now the next step is to find a nice domainname. I'm thinking about personalbooks dot org. Suggestions are welcome.

Posts 888
Brother Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 24 2014 10:42 AM

Have you given any consideration to a PB Wiki?  In addition to hosting PD Personal Books for Logos, it would simplify user comments and reports of copyright infringement (if any).

"I read dead people..."

Posts 81
Doug Hanna | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 24 2014 4:58 PM

I'm excited to see your website Simon!

This will be a great resource!

Posts 18752
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 24 2014 5:45 PM

Simon, before you reinvent the wheel, such a thing exists already in several possible outlets, and is coming soon in another:

1) Have you checked out Thomas Black's site, stilltruth.com? There's a whole section on it for Logos PB's. I know Thomas had some system failure a while back and was working on rebuilding the site, and I'm not sure he finished that, but it's worth looking around: http://www.stilltruth.com/series/personal-books/

2) There's the Files forum here, where people have been uploading their PB's to share. Every couple of months (I'm behind now), I go through all the recent posts there and add links to all the new PB's on the directory of them all at http://wiki.logos.com/User_Contributed_Personal_Books. Of course anybody who uploads books to the Files forum is welcome and encouraged to add their own links on the wiki page, as they'll stay more up-to-date that way then waiting for me to get around to doing my regular housekeeping.

3) Logos is planning on creating a sort of "storefront" for users to share PB's and charge for them (or not, if they want to share them for free). We'll have to wait to see what shape this takes and when it will be coming along. There have been no hints that it's going to be implemented any time soon, but it is still on their long-term list of projects.

If none of those suits your purposes, then by all means go ahead and create a new site. It sounds great. Maybe Thomas's site is not working and won't ever be up to the quality that it once was; and the Files subforum relies on manual user updates to keep the index in sync which isn't ideal; and the Logos store isn't available yet. So there may very well be a need for your site. The question is, do you want to take responsibility for copying over all the PB's that already exist on the Files forum and that are indexed on the wiki "User Contributed Personal Books" page? If not, then we'll end up with another out-of-sync issue.

Posts 212
Simon | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 24 2014 11:53 PM

Rosie Perera:

Simon, before you reinvent the wheel, such a thing exists already in several possible outlets, and is coming soon in another:

1) Have you checked out Thomas Black's site, stilltruth.com? There's a whole section on it for Logos PB's. I know Thomas had some system failure a while back and was working on rebuilding the site, and I'm not sure he finished that, but it's worth looking around: http://www.stilltruth.com/series/personal-books/

2) There's the Files forum here, where people have been uploading their PB's to share. Every couple of months (I'm behind now), I go through all the recent posts there and add links to all the new PB's on the directory of them all at http://wiki.logos.com/User_Contributed_Personal_Books. Of course anybody who uploads books to the Files forum is welcome and encouraged to add their own links on the wiki page, as they'll stay more up-to-date that way then waiting for me to get around to doing my regular housekeeping.

3) Logos is planning on creating a sort of "storefront" for users to share PB's and charge for them (or not, if they want to share them for free). We'll have to wait to see what shape this takes and when it will be coming along. There have been no hints that it's going to be implemented any time soon, but it is still on their long-term list of projects.

If none of those suits your purposes, then by all means go ahead and create a new site. It sounds great. Maybe Thomas's site is not working and won't ever be up to the quality that it once was; and the Files subforum relies on manual user updates to keep the index in sync which isn't ideal; and the Logos store isn't available yet. So there may very well be a need for your site. The question is, do you want to take responsibility for copying over all the PB's that already exist on the Files forum and that are indexed on the wiki "User Contributed Personal Books" page? If not, then we'll end up with another out-of-sync issue.

Rosie, thanks for your kind reply.

1) Ik now about http://www.stilltruth.com/series/personal-books/ and I did love that site. However, since the crash I can't find any PBB on them. Also, I would like a proper way to sort PBB's by author and title, and have a search-function dedicated to PBB's.

3) Logos has promised us a PBB store and PBB sharing for a long time now, which would be absolutely great to have, but I'm afraid we will have to wait a long time for that. Besides the PBB store/sharing will not allow publishing PBB's that Logos publishes themselves.

2) I know some people post their PBB's on this forum, and really appreciate you keeping the wiki-page up to date. But the Logos forum and wiki does not allow publishing PBB's that Logos publishes themselves. This is, of course, understandable form Logos' point of view.

However, Logos has been publishing a lot of public domain works in the past few years.Now if you have the money, I would certainly buy the Logos versions, as they have (most of the time) more advanced tagging than PBB's. But if you're low on money, or don't expect to use a book very often, a PBB with a lesser quality will do.

Besides their are some works (like the sermons of John McArthur and John Piper) that have copyright statements that allow creating a free PBB.

Syning with the files section of the forum and/or wiki-page is something that I can do. And as users can upload their own PBB's, I hope that most of this syncing will be unnecessary.

I have registered the domain personalbooks.org. I hope to finish my seminary education at the end of this month, after which I hope to have some time to build the site. The basic functions (register, add PBB, show PBB's and sort PBB's, download PBB) can be build in a few days.

Posts 18752
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 25 2014 12:23 AM

Simon:
I have registered the domain personalbooks.org. I hope to finish my seminary education at the end of this month, after which I hope to have some time to build the site. The basic functions (register, add PBB, show PBB's and sort PBB's, download PBB) can be build in a few days.

Great! I look forward to seeing what comes of this. It would be nice to be able to download a group of PB's all at once (e.g., all PB's by a particular author) without getting ALL of them, as there will surely be lots that some of us won't want.

Posts 212
Simon | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 25 2014 12:29 AM

Rosie Perera:

Simon:
I have registered the domain personalbooks.org. I hope to finish my seminary education at the end of this month, after which I hope to have some time to build the site. The basic functions (register, add PBB, show PBB's and sort PBB's, download PBB) can be build in a few days.

Great! I look forward to seeing what comes of this. It would be nice to be able to download a group of PB's all at once (e.g., all PB's by a particular author) without getting ALL of them, as there will surely be lots that some of us won't want.

Your feature request is noted. Other feature requests are welcome.

Posts 2473
Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 25 2014 1:48 AM

Simon:

3) Logos has promised us a PBB store and PBB sharing for a long time now, which would be absolutely great to have, but I'm afraid we will have to wait a long time for that. Besides the PBB store/sharing will not allow publishing PBB's that Logos publishes themselves.

Does that mean you'll be hosting PBB's that are public domain but also available as a Logos edition? That's really something.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 25 2014 2:01 AM

Simon:

However, Logos has been publishing a lot of public domain works in the past few years.Now if you have the money, I would certainly buy the Logos versions, as they have (most of the time) more advanced tagging than PBB's. But if you're low on money, or don't expect to use a book very often, a PBB with a lesser quality will do.

Besides their are some works (like the sermons of John McArthur and John Piper) that have copyright statements that allow creating a free PBB.

While I have no objection to your doing this, I'll bow out and ask that no PB's that I've made be moved to your site. On this sort of thing, I want control over whom I share with considering it "friend to friend" and whom I tell where to find the source leaving them on the own for any conversion of the public source.

However, if you carry material in direct competition with Logos, I'd be uncomfortable referring people to your site on the Logos forums.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 212
Simon | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 25 2014 2:22 AM

Lee:

Simon:

3) Logos has promised us a PBB store and PBB sharing for a long time now, which would be absolutely great to have, but I'm afraid we will have to wait a long time for that. Besides the PBB store/sharing will not allow publishing PBB's that Logos publishes themselves.

Does that mean you'll be hosting PBB's that are public domain but also available as a Logos edition? That's really something.

Yes. I believe in the freedom of choise in these matters. Users should have the freedom to choose between a PBB of a public domain work and a fully tagged Logos version. I will add a link to the Logos website when a book is available with Logos too, so users who are looking at a PBB of a book that is available with full Logos tagging can go to the work in the Logos store with one click.

I can understand if people sometimes create a PBB of a public domain work that is widely available on the internet and has a high pricetag in Logos.It is, however, not my intention to compete with Logos. I love their software and the high quality of tagging of their books. The main focus of my website will be PBB' of works that arent in Logos yet.

MJ. Smith:

While I have no objection to your doing this, I'll bow out and ask that no PB's that I've made be moved to your site. On this sort of thing, I want control over whom I share with considering it "friend to friend" and whom I tell where to find the source leaving them on the own for any conversion of the public source.

Of course. The site is meant as a distribution platform of PBB's that are uploaded by the person who created the PBB, or of PBB's that are publicly available to download. PBB's that have been distributed in a private way should not be uploaded to a website without proper OK from the person who created the PBB.

MJ. Smith:

However, if you carry material in direct competition with Logos, I'd be uncomfortable referring people to your site on the Logos forums.

I understand. I will have to think about this. It's not my intention to compete with Logos. My first and foremost idea with the site is to provide one place where a lot of books can be found that are not available in Logos. I'm thinking for example about some of the Dutch PBB's I've created from public domain works. It's unlikely that Logos is ever interested in publishing them.

Posts 2423
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 25 2014 3:18 AM

Dan Francis:

A disclaimer might work. Something to the effect:

This site is dedicated to freely sharing personal books, all works posted here are believed to be public domain or have received permission for non commercial distribution. Contact us immediately if you spot a violation of copyright.  

What if the first paragraph was required to 'prove' that it was legal?  

Listings of the first printed dates to show that it is in the public domain by age. And where that information was found.

Copy of the permission agreement. With the contacts of the person receiving and giving permission and the legal reasons that the giver has the rights to give.  Does it give them permission to distribute or only to use?

[The US fair use clause is only valid for the person who makes the copy.  That person can not give it away and in some readings of the clause must also keep the original that they made the copy from. For example music: You can make a copy for your use in your car but might need to produce the original if requested by the copyright police]

Posts 212
Simon | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 25 2014 3:31 AM

David Ames:

Dan Francis:

A disclaimer might work. Something to the effect:

This site is dedicated to freely sharing personal books, all works posted here are believed to be public domain or have received permission for non commercial distribution. Contact us immediately if you spot a violation of copyright.  

What if the first paragraph was required to 'prove' that it was legal?  

Listings of the first printed dates to show that it is in the public domain by age. And where that information was found.

Copy of the permission agreement. With the contacts of the person receiving and giving permission and the legal reasons that the giver has the rights to give.  Does it give them permission to distribute or only to use?

[The US fair use clause is only valid for the person who makes the copy.  That person can not give it away and in some readings of the clause must also keep the original that they made the copy from. For example music: You can make a copy for your use in your car but might need to produce the original if requested by the copyright police]

I will accept PBB's that:

  1. Are in public domain (based on the first print date)
  2. Are from a non-public-domain source that explicitly allows redistribution to everyone (a link should be provided to proof this)
  3. Are from a non-public-domain source from which the copyright holder has - after being asked to do so - given permission to the redistribution of his work as a PBB (I will ask for proof before allowing such PBB).

In case of doubt, the PBB will only be allowed after permission of the copyright owner is secured.

Posts 2473
Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 25 2014 5:31 AM

Simon:

Lee:

Simon:

3) Logos has promised us a PBB store and PBB sharing for a long time now, which would be absolutely great to have, but I'm afraid we will have to wait a long time for that. Besides the PBB store/sharing will not allow publishing PBB's that Logos publishes themselves.

Does that mean you'll be hosting PBB's that are public domain but also available as a Logos edition? That's really something.

Yes. I believe in the freedom of choise in these matters. Users should have the freedom to choose between a PBB of a public domain work and a fully tagged Logos version. I will add a link to the Logos website when a book is available with Logos too, so users who are looking at a PBB of a book that is available with full Logos tagging can go to the work in the Logos store with one click.

I can understand if people sometimes create a PBB of a public domain work that is widely available on the internet and has a high pricetag in Logos.It is, however, not my intention to compete with Logos. I love their software and the high quality of tagging of their books. The main focus of my website will be PBB' of works that arent in Logos yet.

I think this is a generous and fair gesture on your part.

Posts 2828
Michael Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 25 2014 10:53 AM

Simon,

I wish you well with this, and think this could be a good thing.  I especially like that you are not trying to compete with Logos.

And as I understand you, these Personal Book files will be available free of charge, right?

Also, I have obtained permission to convert to Word format and  distribute certain books and materials on the Logos Files Forum for the purpose of making Personal Books.  (And I am in process of getting permission from other organizations to do the same.)  It would take an entire new set of permissions to distribute these materials from another webpage.  I mention that to say that it would be best to always get permission from whoever posted material on the Logos Files forum before assuming that it is public domain and just taking it.  Not that there is any indication that you would do that.

With those reservations, I say, "Go for it! And blessings on you."

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

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