Well, there goes WBC (new volumes) for now.

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This post has 62 Replies | 3 Followers

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abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 14 2014 9:12 PM

Rupert Murdoch owns news corps, owns harper colins, which owns Zondervan. Murdoch is a multi-gazzillionaire. Little wonder he's going to be about the bottom line.

NB.Mick:

 

Michael Childs:

I understand that business is business, and it would be unfair to blame Logos alone for such copyright negotiation failures.  No doubt both sides are doing what they feel in in their financial best interest.  There are so many things that we don't know in such matters, and I trust the Logos people.

That said and acknowledged, this is most disappointing.  It confirms a conclusion I came to not very long ago. I cannot rely solely on Logos for my electronic Bible study resources.  While there is a convenience in having all my resources working together in Logos, it is not essential.  Both price and availability are also major factors.  And I need to explore what is the best other software to complement my extensive Logos library.

After all, business is business for me, too. 

This has a totally different ring to me. I've come to distrust publishers. To a large extent they get paid for services they no longer deliver and/or are no longer needed. They don't care for authors (though not all of these have realized that) and they care even less for readers - the least they care about is their products i.e. the resources we want to read. After all, every dollar spent on a backlist product is a dollar less spent on this years' shiny new product. Thus the publishers not only like but actively propagate the "gap of the 20th century", orphaned works and outrageous licencing models. They use all kind of lobbyism, illegal contracts and outright lies to keep their hands on the money. The whole thing with "difficult licence rights situations" has been brought about and sustained by publishers and other rights holders who want to maximize profits by artificially separating markets - even in places where it should be illegal to do so, such as in the EU.

I participated in the recent EU project to gain feedback on the state of copyright in the EU and potential developments. The result of ten-thousands of voices curated in a 100pages report is simply that there's a big divide: publishers and rights-owners on the one side and nearly everybody else [including the professional archives] on the other side. The publishers are playing this from a position of might (and might is right and business is business, you say).  

These guys only understand money. So when we go about and buy B&H products from WordSearch, Moody products from the next dead-tree-store and Zondervan products from a Neo-PRADIS-soon-to-come, they will pat themselves on their shoulders and believe they did everything right. In the end this may kill Logos. Nope. Not with me. I will buy WBC 32 in Logos or I won't buy it. If Zondervan thinks they don't want to sell me a commentary on Logos, then perhaps Tyndale or IVP will.

"Business is business"? It seems that publishers are rapidly losing trust and this impacts my intentions on doing business with them.

  • I don't want them to sell me the same product over and over again because they "invent" a publisher-based digital platform and let it die again. 
  • I don't want them to sell me a licence to a product and then go back and never deliver the files to Logos for producing the resource (yes, I can't read a single character of Hebrew, nevertheless I bought BHQ in course of my SESB CD-ROM and I blame the publisher on not giving me what I paid for years ago).

In former times, business meant keeping contracts, even if they were spoken words over a handshake. Going back on their contracts or letters of intent with Logos may keep the bargaining power up for a publisher, but it tells me of an attitude I don't want to support with my money.

(rant off) 

 

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Posts 2712
DominicM | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 15 2014 1:30 AM

Well Given that Word was promising the Acts volume as "immenent" 10 years ago when we used to distribute the dead-tree versions - I think time did need called on the prepub.

Shame as I was looking forward to it

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 15 2014 1:43 AM

 

Bob Pritchett:

Apparently the situation is that these books simply haven't been written. They've been planned for a while, but manuscripts haven't yet been returned to the publisher and in the course of a regular status update on various licensed titles it was decided to simply remove them from the list of announced/licensed titles until they were closer to actually done being written -- let alone edited, published, etc.

There's no big issue here, and no problem with the publisher. I think we probably could have written a better description of the problem in the email, but this is a case of multi-party communication. Even now I don't really know the status of each manuscript -- that's an internal thing between the author and publisher -- and the person who got the news from the publisher told someone in content production scheduling, and it got to marketing, and no one had the details so they just lumped it in with 'licensing issues'.

Thanks Bob for clarifying!

I'm extremely happy about your confirmation that there's no issue with the publisher. Wish it were so for all of them!

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 15 2014 4:52 AM

Bob Pritchett:
Apparently the situation is that these books simply haven't been written. They've been planned for a while, but manuscripts haven't yet been returned to the publisher and in the course of a regular status update on various licensed titles it was decided to simply remove them from the list of announced/licensed titles until they were closer to actually done being written -- let alone edited, published, etc.

Thanks for re-clarifying this Bob. As you move forward, I can imagine that this experience may cause you to look at other works that have not yet been received by the publisher so that there isn't this kind of issue in the future.

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

Posts 1875
Alan Macgregor | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 15 2014 5:00 AM

Bob Pritchett:

I'm sorry for the delayed clarification.

Apparently the situation is that these books simply haven't been written. They've been planned for a while, but manuscripts haven't yet been returned to the publisher and in the course of a regular status update on various licensed titles it was decided to simply remove them from the list of announced/licensed titles until they were closer to actually done being written -- let alone edited, published, etc.

There's no big issue here, and no problem with the publisher. I think we probably could have written a better description of the problem in the email, but this is a case of multi-party communication. Even now I don't really know the status of each manuscript -- that's an internal thing between the author and publisher -- and the person who got the news from the publisher told someone in content production scheduling, and it got to marketing, and no one had the details so they just lumped it in with 'licensing issues'.

Sorry for the confusion.

-- Bob

Bob

Thanks for the clarification.

Every blessing

Alan

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Kaj | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 15 2014 6:17 AM

Still I don't fully get it. I can see that WBC on Acts hasn't been written yet. But that doesn't apply to the volumes on Job. I did a pre-pub order on WBC 18B: Job 38-42, which is obviously already written as it is available in hardcover ;-) So what is the story on that volume being withdrawn from pre-pub?

Posts 570
HansK | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 15 2014 6:57 AM

Kaj:

Still I don't fully get it. I can see that WBC on Acts hasn't been written yet. But that doesn't apply to the volumes on Job. I did a pre-pub order on WBC 18B: Job 38-42, which is obviously already written as it is available in hardcover ;-) So what is the story on that volume being withdrawn from pre-pub?

You already have that volume, its called the Book of Bob in Logos.

Good question!

Big Smile

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 15 2014 7:22 AM

Pre-pubs for books not written yet.  Been there done that. How about purchased volumes not written yet and well past promise dates (e.g. OT Discourse). Or promised datasets years ago.

I'm wondering if the pre-pub concept could be used to suggest books for authors to write.  Maybe go ahead with a suggested price, table of contents, etc.   Sort of like the Hebrews volume that presumably still needs a translator.

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Posts 1082
Tom Reynolds | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 19 2014 3:07 PM

I finally received the email today. Still a little confused because, as mentioned, the Job volume is already out and on top of that the email said that it is Volume 18a: Job 21–37 which was cancelled but I already have that!

Posts 570
Schumitinu | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 16 2014 4:43 PM

Word Biblical Commentary, Volume 18B: Job 38–42 is back on pre-pub again:

https://www.logos.com/product/16809/word-biblical-commentary-volume-18b-job-38-42

 

Posts 1082
Tom Reynolds | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 16 2014 4:55 PM

Indeed, and it remembers that I pre-ordered it on Jan 20, 2012. - Like an Elephant (TM)

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Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 16 2014 5:05 PM

My pre-order is back too..

-dan

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 16 2014 5:17 PM

Tom Reynolds:
Indeed, and it remembers that I pre-ordered it on Jan 20, 2012

And it remembers that earlier (and better) pre-pub price. Very nice.

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Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 18887
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 16 2014 6:04 PM

Mark Smith:

Tom Reynolds:
Indeed, and it remembers that I pre-ordered it on Jan 20, 2012

And it remembers that earlier (and better) pre-pub price. Very nice.

Yes

Posts 225
Alex Bui | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 16 2014 6:20 PM

Mark Smith:

Tom Reynolds:
Indeed, and it remembers that I pre-ordered it on Jan 20, 2012

And it remembers that earlier (and better) pre-pub price. Very nice.

Thank you Faithlife.  That is very nice.  Smile

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 16 2014 7:20 PM

Mark Smith:

Tom Reynolds:
Indeed, and it remembers that I pre-ordered it on Jan 20, 2012

And it remembers that earlier (and better) pre-pub price. Very nice.

I didn't even realize that the price is now higher than it was. Glad to have got in early.

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

Posts 2769
Erwin Stull, Sr. | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 16 2014 7:34 PM

Now, there is hope in one day continuing and completing this series. Smile

Posts 5292
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 17 2014 12:21 PM

Erwin Stull, Sr.:

Now, there is hope in one day continuing and completing this series. Smile

When it was assigned to Zondervan I believe it would get a kick in the pants to finally get the remaining volumes released. It felt like someone had really dropped the ball over at Nelson with it. Indeed if the scholar you choose is unable to deliver his work in a reasonable amount of time sometimes you need to move on and choose another.

-Dan

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Veli Voipio | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 17 2014 1:15 PM

Alex Bui:
Thank you Faithlife.  That is very nice.

Yes

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Erwin Stull, Sr. | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 17 2014 1:36 PM

Dan Francis:

Erwin Stull, Sr.:

Now, there is hope in one day continuing and completing this series. Smile

When it was assigned to Zondervan I believe it would get a kick in the pants to finally get the remaining volumes released. It felt like someone had really dropped the ball over at Nelson with it. Indeed if the scholar you choose is unable to deliver his work in a reasonable amount of time sometimes you need to move on and choose another.

-Dan

I'm not quite sure how the publication business works. I once thought that we were only waiting for Logos to code the resource. Now it seems that, although the resource is placed on Logos Pre-Pub, it may not even be written yet.

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