Logos only lets your transfer book Licenses once???

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This post has 326 Replies | 5 Followers

Posts 18
David Dobbs | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 30 2014 2:22 PM

ST, I apologize if I have offended you.  I do understand your dilemma better now.  You have invested heavily into logos, probably more than any of us.  If I had invested that much; I think I would be more upset too.  I think you are justified in your argument.  

Posts 297
Schezic | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 30 2014 2:40 PM

Denise:
Now his star is an issue.  Transfer rights on a star.  That'd be interesting.
I hadn't fully understood "Salt in the wound" until today. That is Brine. Surprise
Super.Tramp:
I used to be the forum pitbull when it came to others posting links to outside sales of Logos resources. (One reason some resent my MVP star.)
That must be the saltiest of all. Sad

Posts 4069
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 30 2014 3:30 PM

Bob Pritchett:

[

Again, as I repeat over and over, our only solid policy is doing the right thing for the customer,
(...)
A large investment in Logos resources is incredibly safe because we're not complete idiots. 
(...)

we are going to do whatever reasonable thing you ask of us. 
(...)

So you can have whatever you want. We will do anything to make you happy. 

-- Bob



That sounds risky... Hey Bob, can I have Portfolio?
Sorry just trying to make the thread a little more light hearted.

Schezic:

Denise:
Now his star is an issue.  Transfer rights on a star.  That'd be interesting.
I hadn't fully understood "Salt in the wound" until today. That is Brine. Surprise
Super.Tramp:
I used to be the forum pitbull when it came to others posting links to outside sales of Logos resources. (One reason some resent my MVP star.)
That must be the saltiest of all. Sad



That comment came from something I said that I later regretted and deleted... Don't blame her for that one.

L2 lvl4 (...) L8 Platinum, WORDsearch

Posts 442
Tony Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 30 2014 3:42 PM

I, for one, appreciate Bob's candid response.

Although I am not a Logos "whale", I have about $3000 invested in the Logos platform and it will be my primary Bible study software platform for the foreseeable future.  

I am relieved to here that Bob is committed to doing the right thing for the folks who keep the lights on..  

And, by the way, I recommend Logos to anyone who will listen!

Tony

Director of Zoeproject 

www.zoeproject.com

Posts 5301
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 30 2014 3:43 PM

Bob Pritchett:
Here's another way of thinking of it. (One that has the benefit of being the truth.)

Thank you Bob, as far as I am concerned I am satisfied with your lengthy and informative post(s). I was appalled to hear about the abuse that had happened with transfers. I am also sorry to hear that so few of us are repeat customers. I know until the new year I am likely going to be restricted to my monthly payment only. But this is budgetary concerns not as a result of this.

-Dan

Posts 97
Earl Sheneman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 30 2014 3:46 PM

Bob I just want to say that I love Logos and appreciate the fact that you as CEO are willing to come on the forums and interact with customers the way you do. Your gracious spirit and attitude of being willing to do what is right for your customers means a lot to me and I believe says a lot about Logos as a company. I am on a retirement budget and probably will never be one of the big spenders but I hope to be a customer on some level for many more years as Logos has been such a blessing to me. Please pass on my thanks to the whole Logos team for the great job they are doing.

Posts 683
Frank Sauer | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 30 2014 4:22 PM

Super.Tramp:

NB.Mick:
maybe Logos should close it down

Maybe Logos should address the real issue of license portability through sales.

You should know Bob and I have emailed each other by now. My last, and yet unanswered, questions to Bob are these:

When I spoke with Customer Service requesting a license transfer, they told me a transfer email form was necessary as a "legal document." When I got that form it included the following statement,

"Once transferred, items may not be transferred again.'

If that is not a policy statement, what is it doing in a "legal document" Logos sent me? If it is not a policy statement, how am I supposed to interpret it? 

I think all Logos customers should know what the policy is.

Matthew,

After reading this thread, one questions I'd ask is the context of the "Once transferred, items may not be transferred again"

Obviously it appears to have had an effect on some users already, but could the lawyer speak actually have meant that once you transfer a resource, you the user transferring lose control of the resource and can't transfer again? Or and hopefully not - does it actually mean someone purchasing a transferred resource will not be able to transfer again in the future? If so, that is very wrong...

And yes I know that Bob has said.... whatever is right for the customer... Heard it many times and in some "right by the customer" instances nothing has been done to make promises right in years...

I hope it gets clearly defined and worked out for those involved, instead of just having a "we will do what is right for the customers" promise that can be undone by a change in ownership or management.

Posts 4069
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 30 2014 4:24 PM

Frank - might I direct you further up the thread to Bobs post. He clarifies the situation a bit, and the direction logos is moving.

L2 lvl4 (...) L8 Platinum, WORDsearch

Posts 683
Frank Sauer | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 30 2014 4:33 PM

abondservant:

Frank - might I direct you further up the thread to Bobs post. He clarifies the situation a bit, and the direction logos is moving.

I did read that and it is not that I do not believe that Bob is honest with his statements, I just understand Matthew's concern. Bob can make all the promises and honor them, however as long as the clause is in the "legal" wording on the transfer form it can be upheld. Also as stated there have been other promises made on the forum that were not fully honored, so some may be skeptical at times.

Something that is clear in definition in the licensing aspect to protect users from a change in management or change of heart truly protects the users would put at ease the concerns here.

Posts 11190
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 30 2014 4:50 PM

Well, I'm amazed.  When I first saw David's entry, I thought it'd be 'knocked out' with a couple answers. Done.

Then I saw ST go off the deep end.  ST generally is pretty laid back. Lives on the north side of the Arkansas. I thought, well, ok.  Must be a miscommunication somewhere.  Pop the thread periodically and wait for an answer.

Then ST dumps a series of CPs turned PPs.  Oh my, that's really got to hurt.  You can't undo CPs turned PPs.  That's like a NASCAR smash-up. Ruination.

Then Bob explains he's going to see if they can change the policy. Huh?  You mean ST was right?  And MJ wasn't just guessing?

But Bob's elucidation on the Logos marketplace was worth the ride.  I still say good communication would work wonders.  I chatty-kathy in their spare time at Logos would pay off handsomely (carefully checked for no promises, of course).

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 29611
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 30 2014 4:58 PM

I'd like to give a counter example to the two cases this thread has considered - one resolved, the other future. Last week I went up to Bellingham with a list of corrections and modifications that I believed were necessary before I was willing to propose the use of Verbum in our parish for the average parishioner. I do not have a huge library. The program I envisioned was an average sale of $60 or so with an ongoing $45 or so a year. I thought 30 or so people would give it a try - Logos will be glad to know the faith formation people are estimating more like 50. As a percentage of their business this is nothing. I can count on one finger the number of companies I would feel comfortable making demands on as a little guy. And I walked away with:

  • a free lunch
  • more publicity and purchasing support than I expected
  • all but one of my concerns met ... and a good reason it could not be in my timeframe

I strongly urge those who think Logos has wronged them or who need something from Logos, to deal directly with Logos and see what Logos in fact does ... and, yes, this including sometimes going up the chain of command to see if your circumstances justify a bending of the general rule.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 2588
Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 30 2014 5:57 PM

There's more at stake than the rights of individual "VIP customers" here. There's also the perceived or actual value of resources to transferees or buyers.

I think Logos needs to go back to the drawing board for this one. It's too broad a brush. Clearly Logos can't only be thinking about examples on the extreme end of the spectrum, e.g. serial abusers, people wanting to transfer only upon their death (actually in some jurisdictions that may be more than an automatic "transfer").

Early last year I bought some stuff off someone who was cutting down on ministry. To be honest, I was partly trying to help him out, as I was not saving a lot by buying used. If I had known there was such a policy then, I probably wouldn't consider it.

Posts 683
Frank Sauer | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 30 2014 6:01 PM

I wish I had seen this thread before I had ordered an upgrade this morning and purchased a commentary set as well. It would of saved me the hassle.

So I just wasted time calling to get a refund on the upgrade. Logos really needs to make public "official" policy like this to be readily available for those purchasing resources.

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 30 2014 6:18 PM

MJ. Smith:
I strongly urge those who think Logos has wronged them or who need something from Logos, to deal directly with Logos and see what Logos in fact does ... and, yes, this including sometimes going up the chain of command to see if your circumstances justify a bending of the general rule.

Hey everyone,   MJ is right. NB Mick too.   I should have appealed to Bob with my concerns. 

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 30 2014 6:53 PM

Bob Pritchett:
And maybe it's a waste of time, trying to explain/defend our thinking in such detail.

Not a waste of time. You finally get through to me.

Bob Pritchett:
This thread is a real wake-up call. I am crushed to think that Super Tramp is canceling future orders --

I will be emailing Dave Kaplan next week with an upgrade order for Baker Academic Bible Studies Bundle (175 vols.)   I will temper my buying with the notion that I am buying for my own use and not as an asset to be sold. 

I still plan on getting the Baptist Diamond and Pentecostal-Charismatic Silver base packages.

I have not forgotten your kindness in the Sumner of 2012 when I had the coma. You helped me immensely with my Logos account so I could address  $700K in medical bills. That speaks volumes for the character of those running Logos. 

I will pray that God gives you wisdom in handling abuses and system-gamers.

~~~~Matthew "fanboy" Jones

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 437
Mathew Haferkamp | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 30 2014 9:39 PM

I just wanted to add something to this thread, even though I haven't read it all but most (it is on page 11 already).  It seems to me that Bob has taken the advice of so many and is trying to give people a chance to get the feel of logos with out a large investment via free and cheap resources.  And to that I say great job!!  But I must admit I have never bought logos with the intention of ever reselling them, I will certainly will them to somebody.  It's kind of like something else I hold dear and that would be my firearms, I think I would live in a box at the park before I would ever dream of selling them.  I don't think logos will ever lose their position as the number one bible software. And I don't think I would ever sell them.  I am not trying to argue with anyone, I mean no offense to anyone else.  You may feel other wise, it is just my opinion.

               In His Name

                     Matt  

Posts 129
Tom Blanchard | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 30 2014 10:19 PM

Earl Sheneman:

Bob I just want to say that I love Logos and appreciate the fact that you as CEO are willing to come on the forums and interact with customers the way you do. Your gracious spirit and attitude of being willing to do what is right for your customers means a lot to me and I believe says a lot about Logos as a company. I am on a retirement budget and probably will never be one of the big spenders but I hope to be a customer on some level for many more years as Logos has been such a blessing to me. Please pass on my thanks to the whole Logos team for the great job they are doing.

Very well said, Earl. Yes My thoughts and sentiments exactly.

Thank you, Bob, for your very helpful and kind explanation.

Posts 1899
mike | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 30 2014 11:04 PM

I understand your language and your tone Bob.

I hope your employees can learn from your posts and attitude also.

You got my support.

ps: Please polish the Notes, it needs soooo much work.

Posts 483
Gary Butner, Th.D. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 31 2014 5:07 AM

Bob Pritchett:
.

Again, as I repeat over and over, our only solid policy is doing the right thing for the customer, and these lightweight policies/guidelines that emerge organically over time are simply our team's response to abuse problems, and ways to 'call it out' in advance / provide a rule we can cite if/when we need to invoke it. But clearly it's offending our best customers, and we don't want that.

If you'll all forgive some bluntness -- since nothing else seems to be able to kill this thread:

A large investment in Logos resources is incredibly safe because we're not complete idiots. (Though it feels like it this week!) We're a business, and when you spend money with a business that wants to keep you as a customer -- as we do -- part of what you're buying is goodwill and attention. 

If you have a large investment in Logos resources, we are going to do whatever reasonable thing you ask of us. You can will your library, transfer books, ask for and receive my personal cell number and treat me as your 24/7 tech support agent.

So you can have whatever you want. We will do anything to make you happy. 

And maybe it's a waste of time, trying to explain/defend our thinking in such detail. 

This thread is a real wake-up call. I am crushed to think that Super Tramp is canceling future orders -- to the tune of an annual salary! -- because of a single statement we made about a policy we only enforce sporadically, when needed, and would never apply to an incredible customer like him.

Clearly that wasn't a good investment, and cost us far more than it saved, just with one user -- and who knows how many others of you reading this and not posting...

So we'll take this to heart, discuss changes in our operations, and try even harder to earn your trust and knock down 'policy' growth.

But I hope you'll take from this, if nothing else, that none of this is about 'maximizing profits' or 'greed'. It's about the everyday challenge of staying in business when you're balancing the needs of 2.5 million low-revenue users against the different needs of the few thousand people who pay the bills.

--BOB

I started using Logos  over 20  years ago ,and I presume  I am probably a high-end customer.  That  said , I was also in sales for 42 years,  and I know that in all business transactions  there has to be a level of trust.  I'm convinced Bob  is honest and sincere.  I think it's time  to put away the hatchets,  and to  exercise faith  in Logos and  Bob's promises.

Posts 2628
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 31 2014 6:12 AM

Bob Pritchett:

Maybe it's time to publish a big book of rules and promises that we can quote at each other. 

That would keep some happy and step on others toes.  Maybe if you put it into CP to see if there is any interest?

And then those that wanted it could be pointed to the fact that it has not yet [if ever] made it though the CP process.

Then there is the 10 years that it will 'stall' in the pre pub process.  .........  Devil

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