Logos only lets your transfer book Licenses once???

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This post has 326 Replies | 5 Followers

Posts 18
David Dobbs | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 31 2014 6:19 AM
What does "pp" and "cp" mean?
Posts 2672
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 31 2014 6:29 AM

David Dobbs:
What does "pp" and "cp" mean?

Logos often tries to see if a proposed resource will sell. 

So if the resource is in the public domain they float the proposal in CP - Community Pricing.

If it is under copyright they float the proposal in Pre Pub

From the forum look at the top line and hit the logos.com button  [And they changed to website yet again]

Under store you will find both Community Pricing and Pre Pub [Pre-Publication]

We can save a lot of money by signing up early to get a new resource.  

Under Community Pricing watch the video 

 

Posts 406
Paul C | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 31 2014 7:23 AM

Super.Tramp:
I am selling my 40 volume NICOT/NICNT  and my 69 volume Hermeneia/Continental Commentaries.
This would have been a good deal last week. This week, There is no way I would even consider it.

Posts 1032
Mike Pettit | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 31 2014 7:26 AM

I would like to know if this means that if I willed by library to someone then whether on their death the licences could not be transferred in their will.

We were told that there was no intent to impact on bequeathing your library then hands were held up to one transfer only rule which had in fact been sneaked in and as far as I can tell this is where we currently stand.

When you have or are investing tens of thousands this is a serous concern.

Posts 4111
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 31 2014 8:36 AM

Mike Pettit:

I would like to know if this means that if I willed by library to someone then whether on their death the licences could not be transferred in their will.

We were told that there was no intent to impact on bequeathing your library then hands were held up to one transfer only rule which had in fact been sneaked in and as far as I can tell this is where we currently stand.

When you have or are investing tens of thousands this is a serous concern.



I'm going to be over the 7k resource mark here soon. Which surprised me when I realized it. I've been a relatively heavy investor and all on a shoestring.

Bob did say willing a library would never be a concern. I (as you can see from my signature) have been around for a while, even if not on the forums. I trust Bob, therefore I trust Logos. I also trust my salesman, he gets things done for me when they need to be RE resources or helping me keep in budget.

It sounds like the "rule" isn't so much a rule, as a way to inhibit those who seek to take advantage. If you aren't doing that (and your not), then Bob as much as said he'd give you the house. A simple full transfer upon your death should be no problem.

L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, L9

Posts 11306
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 31 2014 9:05 AM

I think Mike's question (and I could easily be wrong) is what happens to the will-ee?  Does he/she have transfer rights.  The issue is what happens if you pick the wrong person to be the will-ee.  They have to kill themselves to get it to the proper person.  If George wanted your Logos, but in the meantime got Accordance, could George give it to Sally?  I know this sounds silly but it's the whole point of 'willing'.

And yes, everyone's exhausted by this thread.  And no progress from the first entry beyond re-assurances of Bob's good-guy-ishness.  It'd sure be nice if Logos would just spell out whatever rule they'd like so we can plan appropriately.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 1032
Mike Pettit | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 31 2014 9:39 AM

Denise:

I think Mike's question (and I could easily be wrong) is what happens to the will-ee?  Does he/she have transfer rights.  The issue is what happens if you pick the wrong person to be the will-ee.  They have to kill themselves to get it to the proper person.  If George wanted your Logos, but in the meantime got Accordance, could George give it to Sally?  I know this sounds silly but it's the whole point of 'willing'.

And yes, everyone's exhausted by this thread.  And no progress from the first entry beyond re-assurances of Bob's good-guy-ishness.  It'd sure be nice if Logos would just spell out whatever rule they'd like so we can plan appropriately.

Yes

Posts 406
Paul C | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 31 2014 9:42 AM

Denise:
It'd sure be nice if Logos would just spell out whatever rule they'd like so we can plan appropriately.
I have grown weary of waiting. I have instituted an appropriate plan. If I can not justify the price of a resource as a personal, single use purchase, I won't buy it. We simply can't be assured of anything beyond that.  It could be a blessing in disguise. As a matter of fact, I am off to the Mother Ship to cancel an order .... or two. Sad

Posts 5315
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 31 2014 12:26 PM

Denise:

I think Mike's question (and I could easily be wrong) is what happens to the will-ee?  Does he/she have transfer rights.  The issue is what happens if you pick the wrong person to be the will-ee.  They have to kill themselves to get it to the proper person.  If George wanted your Logos, but in the meantime got Accordance, could George give it to Sally?  I know this sounds silly but it's the whole point of 'willing'.

And yes, everyone's exhausted by this thread.  And no progress from the first entry beyond re-assurances of Bob's good-guy-ishness.  It'd sure be nice if Logos would just spell out whatever rule they'd like so we can plan appropriately.

I am not sure if it was in an email  to me or on here earlier.. Willing a library and then they willing it on to another is not an issue. Entire Library transfers are relatively easy according to Bob. The issue has do with people scamming the system and the fact that it takes many hours to remove a resource from one account and transfer it to another account.

-Dan

Posts 11306
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 31 2014 12:40 PM

Dan ... you're kind of missing the point. Your willed-to needs to die, in the instance where they don't want/need your gorgeous Logos library.  Or put another way, your gorgeous library reaches a value of zero, if you choose wrong.

Now in my case, I don't propose to jealously guard my Logos digital licenses until I'm 105 (since all my friends will likely also be 105). I see the value in giving decades BEFORE I die.  

And I don't see a lot of value in giving decades BEFORE I die, if the new recipient is stuck reading Denise's nutty choices (although I would strongly argue the book on Assyrian prophets is a gem).

And I certainly don't want to receive the email ST received.  By that time it'll be too late.

Now, I'm completely confident Logos is immune to the question (they don't see their demise on the horizon). And with their detachment of Libronix licensing (both ways I might point out), I'm also completely confident I can do as they can ... and do as I wish.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 31 2014 1:46 PM

Dan Francis:
The issue has do with people scamming the system and the fact that it takes many hours to remove a resource from one account and transfer it to another account.

I have a few ideas to curtail scammers and excessive refunds.  I even have an idea on how to handle those VM clone disks. But maiming reselling is not one of them. 

Also, I don't think it takes "many hours" to transfer a license. At least it shouldn't.

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 8967
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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 31 2014 2:13 PM

Paul C:

Super.Tramp:
I am selling my 40 volume NICOT/NICNT  and my 69 volume Hermeneia/Continental Commentaries.
This would have been a good deal last week. This week, There is no way I would even consider it.

Last week a Logos license was like a pipe wrench in a plumber's toolbox -- it was a reusable tool. This week that license has become the Teflon pipe tape -- a consumable. I believe all licenses have diminished value whether you buy them from another user or from the Logos website.

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 30112
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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 31 2014 2:33 PM

Super.Tramp:
Also, I don't think it takes "many hours" to transfer a license. At least it shouldn't.

Bob indicated it is entirely a manual process so it should be time consuming ... how time consuming? I suspect that depends on when the product was initially purchased, if it has already gone through transfers, etc. Without factual evidence to the contrary, I suggest the guidelines provided to a high school philosophy class taught by a friend:

My principal rule for inquiry: “Never deny, seldom affirm, always distinguish.”

 

Never deny: I ask students to always presume the good and never deny outright someone’s conclusion. This requires charity and patience. This allows us the ability to respect the person and acknowledge that an erroneous claim may ultimately contain some truth.

 

Seldom affirm: I desire for my students to advance their conversations without fear so they may arrive at the truth together. This principle allows us to fully investigate our particular objections so that the conversation may advance and truth may be discovered.

 

Always distinguish: Students are expected to always qualify their terms and definitions. This principle allows the student to accomplish the first two principles while recognizing the limits of language, with the hope of achieving a better answer collectively. This requires humility and understanding and allows us to challenge not only ourselves, but also our colleagues in our quest for truth.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 5315
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 31 2014 3:08 PM

Denise:

Dan ... you're kind of missing the point. Your willed-to needs to die, in the instance where they don't want/need your gorgeous Logos library.  Or put another way, your gorgeous library reaches a value of zero, if you choose wrong.

Now in my case, I don't propose to jealously guard my Logos digital licenses until I'm 105 (since all my friends will likely also be 105). I see the value in giving decades BEFORE I die.  

And I don't see a lot of value in giving decades BEFORE I die, if the new recipient is stuck reading Denise's nutty choices (although I would strongly argue the book on Assyrian prophets is a gem).

And I certainly don't want to receive the email ST received.  By that time it'll be too late.

Now, I'm completely confident Logos is immune to the question (they don't see their demise on the horizon). And with their detachment of Libronix licensing (both ways I might point out), I'm also completely confident I can do as they can ... and do as I wish.

Well I have one or two smaller purchases that are odd, but over all I believe you can give your entire library away anytime you choose, but you no longer have it. To break it up into multiple pieces to give away is what would be problematic. You may think X will never want to read your nutty choices but they are part of your Library. It sounds like Logos software is like a soup rather than a card catalog. Removing all the kidney beans from the soup is easier said than done. I am not saying it wouldn't be nice to give or sell items easily we are done with or do not use, but continuing the analogy it's easier to give away or sell the pot of soup, rather than give the pinto beans to A the tomatoes to B and the ground beef to C and the Pasta to D and the base to E. I am well aware the church will have little use for somethings like the Perseus library or the SDA collection (not a base package but the old CDROM collection) I got for curiosity sake. I assume they will either ignore the items they don't want or hide them. The thought of them selling books would not bother me but again to me it would seem to be about as easy as unmaking soup.

-Dan

Posts 602
Bill Anderson | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 31 2014 3:27 PM

Mathew Haferkamp:

But I must admit I have never bought logos with the intention of ever reselling them, I will certainly will them to somebody.  It's kind of like something else I hold dear and that would be my firearms, I think I would live in a box at the park before I would ever dream of selling them.  I don't think logos will ever lose their position as the number one bible software. And I don't think I would ever sell them.  I am not trying to argue with anyone, I mean no offense to anyone else.  You may feel other wise, it is just my opinion.

               In His Name

                     Matt  

Matt, I appreciate your post. As a customer with over 4,000 resources in Logos, I didn't think I'd ever want to sell my resources either. But, since I am not in the professional ministry any longer, I could not justify retaining two of the more popular Logos packages -- NICOT/NICNT and WBC -- that I had in my library. I felt I needed to sell these instead of letting them sit unused, and I essentially did sell them for what I paid for them. I suppose I could have given them away, but since I got NICOT/NICNT on prepub when it was first released and purchased WBC at a very low price from a third-party reseller during the Libronix days, selling them for what I paid for them gave a couple of buyers an opportunity to obtain these sets at an affordable price. I realize that Logos didn't get the sales for these packages directly from these buyers, but Logos got my original business on one set and made a cut on the other. Reading what "rules" were in place and contacting customer service about my intentions, I knew I was doing nothing wrong or abusive by offloading these sets.

However, aside from these two sets, like you I plan to hold onto the library that I now have. Ultimately, I plan to factor my library into my estate planning and really want it to transfer to the person I name in my last will. I believe I will be able to do that based upon what I have heard Bob say.

Posts 14
Helen | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 31 2014 3:28 PM

Here is a crazy thought.   Could it be that logos has become too big?  Do they really need this much staff to produce their software?  Could they produce the same product without all the overhead?  It seems to me, the more logos grows staff wise, the more products they will have to sell to pay their bills.  Also the cost of books will go up and the more squeeze they will have to put on third parties, like logos users trying to sale as well.  My point is:  could lowering their overhead help solve this problem.  This is just a thought.  I might be totally wrong.  

Posts 4111
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 31 2014 3:34 PM

Not sure if I should relay this story or not, but it does demonstrate Logos commitment to customer service EVEN WHEN AGAINST THE RULES.

Perhaps this is the source of my confidence.

I purchased a set of L3 disks off amazon.com. They were marketed as new, arrived used and already activated. Worse the former user ("Christine") was an academic user. Academic resources are not to be transferred. CS (over the course of a series of emails and phone calls) went ahead and merged her resources into my account. They could have said "tough, its a 100$ lesson". But they didn't. They didn't even charge me 20$. It was against the rules, but since Logos is awesome they activated it on my account. I sent about 3 emails (pictures of what I got, serials, cds, packaging, receipt), and then two phone calls later (the CS rep called me, and then I called her back when I received her Voicemail) I was downloading and happy.

L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, L9

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 31 2014 3:59 PM

Helen:
Do they really need this much staff to produce their software?

They build content as well as software ... they are perpetually short of programmers for their software.

Helen:
Could they produce the same product without all the overhead?

Given how long we wait at times for retagging for new features to be complete, I suspect many of us would prefer more overhead ... or a redistribution of the overhead.

I have the good fortunate of having no interest in the business side so I won't speculate on if they could be leaner and meaner ...

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 31 2014 4:05 PM

MJ. Smith:
... how time consuming? I suspect that depends on when the product was initially purchased, if it has already gone through transfers, etc.

My transfer of the SDA Bible Commentary v3.0 must have been the simplest transfer. It was accomplished very fast. (Thanks Steve Workman)

I guess I can see splitting one invoice three ways might take a bit of effort.

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 406
Paul C | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 31 2014 9:47 PM

MJ. Smith:
Without factual evidence to the contrary, I suggest the guidelines provided to a high school philosophy class taught by a friend:
I would point out that philosophy (and philosophy professors) are sometimes the furthest removed from Reality. The guidelines set down may be a good template for acing the course. But fall woefully short in navigating the Real World.   

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