Logos has overtaken Accordance for good

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Posts 442
Tony Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 30 2014 8:35 PM

Erik:

Well it looks like Accordance 11 is being released...and the price of the Starter package has jumped 20%.

They have also included some more resources, so the increase is justified.  It would be nice it Logos would offer a $60 package.  I am sure that would generate a lot more business.

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Erik | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 30 2014 8:54 PM

Tony Thomas:

Erik:

Well it looks like Accordance 11 is being released...and the price of the Starter package has jumped 20%.

They have also included some more resources, so the increase is justified.  It would be nice it Logos would offer a $60 package.  I am sure that would generate a lot more business.

The new resources aren't very exciting...four foreign language bibles and two English resources (Dr. J's Bible Study Methods and Treasury of Scripture Knowledge).  I'm inclined to think that the Logos setup that has been highlighted with the NAS bundle is really a better deal (assuming they ever get the pricing on that sorted out).

Posts 442
Tony Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 1 2014 5:52 AM

Yeah,  at $299, it is not a great deal at all.   Still,  at least Accordance has a package for well below $100 that gives you a basic set of study tools to get started.   For Logos,  I used to point people to the Nelson Essential Bible Study bundle or the NAS bundle,  but those options have disappeared.  I might add that for $199, Accordance's Bible Study package blows Logos Starter out of the water.  The included Tyndale Commentaries set is worth the price of admission alone.  Plus, it now adds the aforementioned NAS package that Logos now wants $299 for for.  Logos really needs to beef up Starter and add a low-cost package.

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Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 1 2014 11:20 AM

Logos has stated (BOB) that $299 price point was set to cover costs associated with users. Now Logos does not require a base package but buying say a Bible and a Bible dictionary alone is not encouraged. Logos agues that Faithlife is free and indeed it has good resources, but if you move to the computer you find out out you have no greek hebrew support. Logos considers itself the Cadillac of Biblical software an ultra low end product dose not fit in. Yes they are magnanimous enough to offer freely the Faithlife Study Bundle, but when all is said and done it is a marketing tool for Logos. You are constantly encountering links to Logos products and I am sure the hope is it will lead you not only to a deeper faith in Christ but most assuredly to purchasing a base package or at least several larger resources. We know that the NAS is a mistake. It would have been nice if Phil had stated what the right price was suppose to be ($29.99 makes sense since it was the MSRP). But again bigger question WHY IS THE PRICE STILL $299 it has been over a week since a Logos official told us it was a mistake and would be corrected. I have seen price mistakes pointed out and fixed in under an hour, so something smells fishy to me.

-Dan

Posts 2038
Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 1 2014 11:35 AM

Dan, an even bigger problem is: why has the 1995 NASU been severely dated for many years, at least since L4 came out?
The RSV is a much more scholarly and upt-to-date, supported English Bible with lots of tools: UBS Handbooks, Comfort New Testament Text and Translation Commentary, numerous monographs, a Reverse Interlinear (for the NT) which can be purchased separately - no base-packages or Minimal Crossgrades necessary. Oh plus Accordance plus the printed matter market offer Comprehensive New Testament / Comprehensive Bible by Clontz.

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Posts 442
Tony Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 1 2014 12:26 PM

The Libronix version was $29.95 list and I believe I paid less than that when I bought it.  Why they would sell it for 10X list is beyond me! 

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abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 1 2014 2:46 PM

Unix:

Dan, an even bigger problem is: why has the 1995 NASU been severely dated for many years, at least since L4 came out?
The RSV is a much more scholarly and upt-to-date, supported English Bible with lots of tools: UBS Handbooks, Comfort New Testament Text and Translation Commentary, numerous monographs, a Reverse Interlinear (for the NT) which can be purchased separately - no base-packages or Minimal Crossgrades necessary. Oh plus Accordance plus the printed matter market offer Comprehensive New Testament / Comprehensive Bible by Clontz.



I know little about the RSV, but much of the scripture I've memorized is in nasb 95. Certainly all of my studies of scripture as an undergraduate were done in the nasb 95. It would take a significant amount of demonstrated proof that RSV is better. Till then I'll chalk up your statement as preference.

I currently prefer ESV. I could as easily say its far better than the dated RSV - parts of which were published in the 1940s. Even the NRSV (1989) is dated by comparison. ESV in some senses is the updated version of the NRSV.

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Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 1 2014 3:09 PM

I believe UNIX's idea is that NASB either 77 or 95 tends to put into the translation many verses that most modern translation removes. These are bracket with square brackets and annotate it to point out for lack of evidence. The RSV's NT was last updated in 1972.  The ESV is merely a mild revision updating of the RSV I think it is fine but find it motives somewhat suspect (i.e. Isaiah 7:14, translation as Virgin). Please note i do not deny Christ's virginal conception or the fact Isaiah 7 is a prophecy pointing to Christ. But I do not need to force the text and possible remove the more immediate fulfilment Isaiah may have had in mind. 

-Dan

PS: An example that seems uncontroversial would be the Lord's Prayer's embellishment.

13  ‘And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from bevil. *[For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.]’

*This clause not found in early mss

New American Standard Bible: 1995 Update (LaHabra, CA: The Lockman Foundation, 1995), Mt 6:13.

Posts 2038
Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 1 2014 3:11 PM

The tools I mentioned make the RSV fully current at least for the New Testament part - there's no reason whatsoever to use the ESV as the only advantage of the ESV (for those that because of convenience don't look up the textual matters) was the newer textual basis in the New Testament. There are also important paper books on important books of the Bible that deal with in which verse the RSV or the NRSV is better (the author was on the translation team) - even on a clause level: such as William L. Holladay (1990). JEREMIAH reading the prophet in his time - and ours. Fortress Press (180 pages).  ... which I'm reading through right now cover-to-cover and the prof said it's a tremendously good summary. It's a fascinating book of the Bible. This book is fully up-to-date.

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Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 14 2014 1:06 PM

Erik:

Well it looks like Accordance 11 is being released...and the price of the Starter package has jumped 20%.

With Version 11 (Note I am not a beta tester, only know what has been shared in official channels.) Accordance follows Logos in offering a passage guide (under the name Info Pane). OT also did this in there own "Passage Guide" called Resource Guide. Indeed WS mobile App has tried to implement something PGish but it fails on most every level. One can say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery if so Logos should feel very flattered. I do know OT RG is nice in that it functions fully offline for mobile platforms but who knows one day our Faithlife mobile APPS may gain this function.

-Dan

Posts 3116
David Taylor Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 14 2014 1:29 PM

JoshInRI:

Does any version allow me to use a picker to get to a book, chapter, and verse?  I continue to marvel at how some basic functionality is missing in Logos 5.x.  The basic desktop is coming along but is still rife with ads (yes I know I can turn them off) - but no real plethora of useful devotional material.  Sigh.

That would take forever, why would you want to navigate the Bibles like that?

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 14 2014 1:41 PM

David ... is it true about the rumor concerning the job offer for you at Logos?  Just (as usual) joking.  'Touch screen'.  A good verse picker is a blessing in church on Sunday morning.

Plus a picker that allows backtracking in a chapter or book (like OliveTree) is even faster (hint, hint to the Logos iOSians).

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David Taylor Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 14 2014 1:44 PM

Denise:

David ... is it true about the rumor concerning the job offer for you at Logos?  Just (as usual) joking.  'Touch screen'.  A good verse picker is a blessing in church on Sunday morning.

Plus a picker that allows backtracking in a chapter or book (like OliveTree) is even faster (hint, hint to the Logos iOSians).

Even on sunday morning shortcut typing is loads faster than picking.  And backtracking in a chapter you would just scroll.....

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KJB1611 | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 16 2015 9:41 AM

I have both Accordance and Logos, and believe Accordance is far superior for careful study of the original languages, while Logos is superior in the number of books it offers.  If I could only use one or the other, I would definitely go with Accordance, but I don't need to, so I use both of them for their respective strengths.  Logos does a better job marketing itself, though, and is therefore a far bigger company.

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abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 16 2015 9:52 AM

KJB1611:

I have both Accordance and Logos, and believe Accordance is far superior for careful study of the original languages, while Logos is superior in the number of books it offers.  If I could only use one or the other, I would definitely go with Accordance, but I don't need to, so I use both of them for their respective strengths.  Logos does a better job marketing itself, though, and is therefore a far bigger company.


First of all that thread is ancient.

Secondly, is that something you really need to post on a Logos forum?

If you like Accordance better go post your sentiments on their forum.

I've tried it, and didn't like it as well, nor olive tree - picker included.

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Posts 258
Claude Brown Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 16 2015 9:57 AM

Denise:

I'd agree with many of your points.  I was looking forward to the Accordance Windows version, having listened to the Accordance users.  I wasn't wildly happy-fied. Plus the iOS app is a pain.  I'd say the Logos app is far better.

That said, for new users and friends, I'd probably recommend Olive Tree first, and if the person likes to delve into the languages a bit, then Accordance.  Most people have others things they need to do in their lives.  Both are developing a nice set of Bible resources and both easy to pick up, along with other of life's travails.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 16 2015 10:52 AM

KJB1611:
Logos does a better job marketing itself, though, and is therefore a far bigger company.

For myself, it is not marketing that drives me and my acquaintances to Logos - it's resources. There are many of us for whom "careful study of the original languages" is not a major consideration. In fact, although I enjoy linguistic considerations, I know enough to let the real experts do real original language research. In our particular language department in Graduate school to measure if someone had really mastered a language we'd ask - do you have it in your bathroomWink A nearby department used "do you have dreams in language x" as the criteria ... but they had more spoken languages and fewer dead ones.

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Posts 94
Ben Bush | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 16 2015 11:08 AM

To each their own.

Blessed with some additional "professional resources" funds at my previous church, I bought Accordance last Fall as an original language supplement after being told how much faster, easier and superior it was/is than Logos. That's what people keep saying, even on this forum.

Regardless... thus far, Accordance has been a disappointment. For instance, just a simple mouseover in Logos 6 yields more results via the information panel than even multiple click attempts on the same word in Accordance, not to mention than Accordance's "instant display", which is downright paltry in comparison. (For that matter, I've even found Bibleworks to be superior to Accordance.)

While I'm not a "linguist", I am a pastor with an earned DMin and MDiv level training in Greek and Hebrew. I find Logos gives me seamless access to both my commentaries and language tools as I use both on an almost daily basis. Btw, both Morris Proctor and John Fallahee have helped me tremendously to leverage Logos practically and effectively both in sermon preparation for expository messages and in my pastoral ministry. (Perhaps these two men were/are the catalyst, at least in part, for Logos's new wave of training videos over the last year or so. And, yes, I'm aware of and familiar with Accordance training videos. Very kind, capable folk, demonstrating an excellent program but I keep finding myself thinking, I can do "that" better, faster -- and deeper -- with Logos. Plus, the verbal interaction of other users is counter-productive more often than not.)

I'll continue to try to grow in my ability with Accordance since I have it and realize I'm not maximizing its functionality, but Logos keeps giving me reasons to keep putting off that quest.

So, KJB, while you have the freedom to promote another product's being "far superior" in an area than Logos, know that there are others who disagree with you. 

Posts 5285
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 16 2015 11:17 AM

Being an extremely long user of both Logos Mac and Accordance I will say each have definite strengths. This article i believed delved into them fairly well if I remember correctly (I did not review the entire thread this morning). If i had to choose between the two Accordance would win out for several reasons, that said I am very happy to have both and use both.

-Dan

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 16 2015 11:20 AM

Dan Francis:
(I did not review the entire thread this morning)

This thread lay dormant for a year until KJB1611 resurrected it.

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

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