Logos has overtaken Accordance for good

Page 5 of 8 (154 items) « First ... < Previous 3 4 5 6 7 Next > ... Last »
This post has 153 Replies | 18 Followers

Posts 5250
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 16 2015 11:25 AM

Super.Tramp:

Dan Francis:
(I did not review the entire thread this morning)

This thread lay dormant for a year until KJB1611 resurrected it.

Know that very well, which is why I intentionally tried to make as brief a statement as possible with no arguments really, I thought if it was petted gently it might go back to sleep.

-Dan

Posts 442
Tony Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 16 2015 1:51 PM

I use both and am happy with both.  Vive la difference!

Director of Zoeproject 

www.zoeproject.com

Posts 933
Matthew | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 16 2015 2:07 PM

I only have Logos. I have heard for years that Accordance is better for original languages stuff, but I don't know that I have ever seen any specifics as to why that is. I have never had a languages task that I could not accomplish in Logos. Granted, different users have different needs, but I never found languages to be an area in which Logos was lacking.

Posts 233
Charles | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 16 2015 5:24 PM

Accordance has always been a Mac program whereas Logos from its very beginnings was designed for Windows and only lately been available to Mac users.  In my opinion, Logos still has some catching up to do on the Mac side.

Having said that, I use Logos and have used it since the old Library System (LLS) and have no intention of spending ministry money on Accordance.  And by the way, Accordance is now competing on the Windows side. I wonder how well they'll do there?  Smile

In Christ,

Charles

2017 27" iMac 5K, Mojave, 10.5" iPad Pro, iPhone 7+, iPhone 8, iOS 12.0, Catalina beta, iPadOS Beta  

Posts 1421
Forum MVP
Veli Voipio | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 16 2015 11:08 PM

One area where I would like to see competition in the near future is the map capability. I don't mean books with maps, but something similar to Google earth/map or other net maps: fast, detailed, accurate, easy to use, and user editable. Having a direct  link from the text to the location visible on the map. Having user selectable geographic layers  and time period layers. (The current Atlas in Logos serves as a warning example, sorry for my opinion!)

Gold package, and original language material and ancient text material, SIL and UBS books, discourse Hebrew OT and Greek NT. PC with Windows 8.1

Posts 191
Rev. 14:6 | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 12 2015 6:06 PM

As I have been a Logos 6 user and had my first day using Logos now, it appears that logos is heading in a really really nice direction. They are improving beyond L6.  I was looking into Accordance because a friend of mine is looking to buy his first bible software for seminary.  He came to me and said, sell me on Logos, why should I buy it?  I was watching Accordance 11 on youtube, the newest version, to see its features, how it looks and what it does.  I am not going to kick Accordance at all as it seems to be a nice software, but for the latest version of it, I was not really that impressed.  

Yes I can see the lightning fast search results is still there that I have always come to envy, but I'm not really too excited the way it looks.  It seems to be trying too hard to be "mac"ie so to speak.  It looks like I have opened system preferences on my mac and am fine tuning my mac.  

I really have been using Logos now for the day, a few hours, and love the way it is laid out, the U.I. looks really slick and improved.  I know companies look closely at what their closest competition does and how and why their customers love it. This is done down to tearing it apart and immersing yourself in the product.  No companies admit to this practice but it is done and Logos and Accordance are no different.  Suffice it to say, as I watched some of these video features, Accordance seems to have copied Logos' Explorer and they call it "info pane" and it does similarly the same thing.  It does say it displays every book in the library that has relevant information regarding the text you are searching.  Quick Entry seems a copy of Logos' search feature.  When you enter a search, you begin to type it out and before you are finished it gives words close to what you are typing and you can scroll down to the topic you wanted, Logos does this already in L6. Although the speed in Accordance in this is instant!  Logos can take time on some things. 

I'm know we will be really impressed with Logos 7.  However, the old idea that accordance is for original language bible study and Logos is an e-reader, is really not relevant at all any longer. My friend told me this what his accordance friends tell him.  Again, I'm sure Logos looked at bible works and what Accordance does in original languages and developed their own.  Now, it seems Logos has really far exceeded what original language bible study can be and is not content at leaving it there.  They are developing new tools to save us time in analyzing the biblical text. 

Plus you have the vast tagged library for other studies.  Seems that Accordance is now expanding its library.  Accordance seems to be more expensive as well in regards to what they are giving you.  Friends of mine complain about that with Accordance, and they say the mobile app is not as well done as Logos' mobile app.  They like that logos' app does not require you to download your books for mobile app use if you have wifi. What I did like about accordance is the wonderful colors in their maps.  Maybe Logos will fix this in the L7 release.  

Today it does seem that Logos is in new territory that has never been discovered.  I say that as a user of Logos Now and compare that to the Accordance 11 videos I have been watching on youtube.  Accordance 11 is the latest and greatest foray for Accordance and it does not really leave me saying man, I want all that. Logos seems to be pioneering new features that are really impressive. However, I know they have heard this before, Logos do not overlook the small stuff.  Give us the speed of Accordance in searching!  This may be a small thing but those small things do matter to us. 

Well this is way too long, and I have missed several things/features I also found in accordance vs Logos, and won't write that here so I can end. While I know Logos has bit of a learning curve due to all the facets of it capabilities it is well worth an investment and a serious look into.  Continue the great work FL and the team at Logos. 

Posts 191
Rev. 14:6 | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 12 2015 6:17 PM

I failed to mention all the tutorials that Logos posts on youtube, many available at all times to look and learn.  The dedicated staff they have specifically to the development of denominational works, i.e., Anglican, Catholic, Seventh day Adventist, Reformed, etc., and many others.  I did not mention the benefits of Vyrso, Verbum, Proclaim and Faithlife groups; Vryso free books, Logos free books, free collections from time to time, and amazing deep discounts offered, i.e., the Zondervan discount that recently ended.  Maybe Accordance has this or maybe not.  Think Logos has a wealth of information in its offering and for the money, what you get with Logos goes so much further than what Accordance offers you.  I did not mention the features the iOS or Android app Logos has and the features it can do in comparison to Accordance.  Ok, getting long again.  I think I've had too much cool aid.   

Posts 80
Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 13 2015 5:32 AM

I am a user of both OliveTree and Logos. I have a large library in Logos and I appreciate its original language and search ability.  My own experience is that Logos search is most valuable on resources such as journals, sermons, theology (such as Barth Church Dogmatics), and monographs. However, on OT, Zondervan resources are often sold for half price, and that price difference made it economical. The new OT app is also very fast and slick. OT has Japanese Bible, while on Logos it is stuck in pre-pub. MacArthur commentaries and Application Bible notes are often sold for half price, but it is not available in Logos. I enjoy Thomas Constable Expository Note: on OT they have his 2014 version; on Logos they are still selling his 2003 version. Personally, I buy commentaries at whichever Bible e-book sellers that offer me the cheapest deal, while for other types of resources I tend to stick with Logos.

Posts 94
Ben Bush | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 13 2015 7:41 AM

Moody and Logos are out of sorts, evidently. Fortunately, I got the MTNCs available before the rift. If I were you, Paul, I'd snap up whatever from Moody you like on OT platform lest Moody and OT get crossways ala Faithlife and OT. Shame both companies worked together before but can't now. Lose-Lose for the kingdom. Just to get thread back on topic... Not sure if Accordance has same issues with Moody and thus cause one to choose Accordance over Logos. Would be interested to read your take on Logos vs. OT capabilities -- but -- that would be another thread, now wouldn't it.Wink

Posts 5250
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 15 2015 8:48 PM

Ben Bush:
Not sure if Accordance has same issues with Moody and thus cause one to choose Accordance over Logos. Would be interested to read your take on Logos vs. OT capabilities -- but -- that would be another thread, now wouldn't it.Wink

This tif is fully a Faithlife/Moody one... I remember people asking about Moody and hearing there was no issues with Moody there. Indeed Olivetree and Bible WordSearch still have all their moody titles. OT has even released new Moody titles recently. I am not saying there is any fault with either party we were obviously not told everything but we did get the information that Moody was wanting higher royalty rates. For whatever reason the two could not come to terms and have parted ways, and we had been told we wouldn't likely see Moody titles back anytime soon if ever. FL could well be in talks and have the titles back tomorrow. But people outside FL/Moody  are unlikely to know anything before a deal is made. I am not holding my breath to see them back together anytime soon, but strange things do happen.

-Dan

Posts 1257
HJ. van der Wal | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 16 2015 2:05 AM

Shalom!

Is it possible to buy separate resources from Accordance or do you have to pay for the software (i.e. buy a starter collection)?

I've downloaded the demo in the past and though it's a good program I very much prefer Logos. I'd like to know the answer just in case I ever come across a resource that I cannot buy in Logos.

Posts 2703
Forum MVP
Ted Hans | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 16 2015 2:27 AM

H.-J.van der Wal:

Shalom!

Is it possible to buy separate resources from Accordance or do you have to pay for the software (i.e. buy a starter collection)?

Why not enquire on the Accordance forum?

Dell, studio XPS 7100, Ram 8GB, 64 - bit Operating System, AMD Phenom(mt) IIX6 1055T Processor 2.80 GHZ

Posts 13360
Forum MVP
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 16 2015 2:28 AM

H.-J.van der Wal:
Is it possible to buy separate resources from Accordance or do you have to pay for the software (i.e. buy a starter collection)?

You have to buy the starter collection. If you go through the checkout process, it will tell you that modules require a package before you pay, but that information is not on the module pages themselves.

Posts 10035
Forum MVP
NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 16 2015 2:37 AM

Dan Francis:

.... OT has even released new Moody titles recently.

If I'm not mistaken, Faithlife has done the same - just not on Logos, but on Vyrso.com. The contracts for this platform seem to follow the general way such contracts are done between publishers and ebook-retailers, and Moody and Faithlife (as well as Abingdon and Faithlife) seem to be on friendly terms there. It seems they think 'it doesn't matter whether we send that ePub file to one more address once we made it' (in fact, it costs them nothing and may bring some royalties down the road or at least visibility). 

My guess is that other bible software maybe is seen as akin to "yet another ebook reader" (i.e. in the Vyrso-league) by Moody and other publishers who are reluctant to support Logos exactly because it's the leader of the pack, provides new usage opportunities for users (with the tagging applied) and makes the publishers nervous about the whole dead-tree-business.

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

Posts 1257
HJ. van der Wal | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 16 2015 2:50 AM

Shalom!

Mark Barnes:

that information is not on the module pages themselves.

Thank you for your answer, Mark!

Ted Hans:

Why not enquire on the Accordance forum?

Because I have no intention of actually buying their software. Even my hypothetical interest has now ceased.

Posts 13360
Forum MVP
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 16 2015 3:40 AM

NB.Mick:
My guess is that other bible software maybe is seen as akin to "yet another ebook reader" (i.e. in the Vyrso-league) by Moody and other publishers who are reluctant to support Logos exactly because it's the leader of the pack, provides new usage opportunities for users (with the tagging applied) and makes the publishers nervous about the whole dead-tree-business.

I agree very much with your first phrase (Vyrso is "yet another ebook reader"), but not the rest of it.

The reason some publishers are reluctant to go with Logos (but are happy with Vyrso) is nothing to do with the fact that it's the leader of the pack. It's because there's a huge difference between the way Logos and Vyrso contracts are drawn up.

With Logos, Faithlife become the electronic publisher of the resource, and pay the print publisher a percentage of sales as a royalty (which might only be 15%, though a few important resources are much higher). Prices are generally determined by Faithlife, in agreement with the publisher. Faithlife are responsible for producing the digital file and the marketing copy.

With Vyrso, Faithlife become the reseller of the resource, and they keep a small percentage of the sale as a fee, and pass all of the rest back to the publisher. Prices are generally determined by the publisher. The publisher is responsible for producing the file and the marketing copy.

Under the Logos model, the publisher is treated rather like the author is in traditional publishing. They have far less say over production and marketing, and they receive only a small percentage of the sales receipts. Not all publishers are happy with this. Indeed, not all of them will have contracts with authors that even allow it.

Other Bible software publishers don't have this two-tier model, and perhaps are more flexible with individual publishers. But on the whole, I think it's the right approach from Logos. Logos tagging is usually much better than that in other packages (funded by the higher percentage they retain), and publishers still have a zero-tagging option if they want to keep a higher percentage of sales. From a users point of view the division means we know what we're getting before we purchase.

Posts 5250
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 16 2015 11:31 AM

Vyrso only has 64 titles from Moody Publishing. And some titles that originally had come out in Vyrso has disappeared (for a few weeks or days verse did sell the new Moody Bible Atlas). So even in the world of eBooks there is not a huge selection in the FL world.

-Dan

PS:Going back to another question on ACC. The program purchase is required but starts $60 for program and books. I will not list contents because anyone wanting more info can easily find that out, but wanted to make sure it was not to be thought that packages were starting out at the $300 like Logos' are.

Posts 3013
David Taylor Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 17 2015 5:24 AM

Dan Francis:

Vyrso only has 64 titles from Moody Publishing. And some titles that originally had come out in Vyrso has disappeared (for a few weeks or days verse did sell the new Moody Bible Atlas). So even in the world of eBooks there is not a huge selection in the FL world.

-Dan

PS:Going back to another question on ACC. The program purchase is required but starts $60 for program and books. I will not list contents because anyone wanting more info can easily find that out, but wanted to make sure it was not to be thought that packages were starting out at the $300 like Logos' are.

Correct, the packages do not even begin to compare.

Teacher, Ministry Leader, Student, Author, Husband

How to upload logs

Visit My Site: Reformed Truths

Posts 5250
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 17 2015 9:59 AM

Yes but some people are fine with $60 package with ESV strongs/ modern one volume commentary/ modern bible dictionary/ KJV strongs / dozen or so classic resources. In fact that is what FL is missing. The use to have something similar in the NASB library. But that is no more and now the AMG library is about as close as you will get. I would say a $300 accordance package has a similar value maybe even a bit more than a Logo starter. But I prefer to see each having a good value and it's better uses. In many ways Logos is a Swiss Army knife and accordance is more like a pocket knife only a couple of blades and a can opener but much easier to handle. This is of course an over simplification since both are powerful tools with many tools.

Dan

Posts 791
LogosEmployee
Eli Evans (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 18 2015 12:58 PM

Rev. 14:6:
I really have been using Logos now for the day, a few hours, and love the way it is laid out, the U.I. looks really slick and improved.  I know companies look closely at what their closest competition does and how and why their customers love it. This is done down to tearing it apart and immersing yourself in the product.  No companies admit to this practice but it is done and Logos and Accordance are no different.

Hi, "Rev." I'm the head of interaction design and my team is responsible for the Logos UI and designing the feature capabilities. First of all, thanks for the kind words. I like the Logos UI, too. Smile 

You might be surprised that my team doesn't pay very close attention to what any other Bible software does and how it works. We certainly don't do any tear-downs. I mean, yes, we're sort of vaguely aware of what's really cutting edge here or there in the industry. But I don't think it would be immodest to say that most of what's cutting edge is more here than anywhere out there, if you know what I mean. I prefer that we act like an industry leader than a follower.

Every now and then someone from elsewhere in the company sends me a video or a link to a new product announcement from a competing product — just as often from another industry than from the Bible study field. I watch them, but for the most part, the ones from our direct competitors tend to reinforce for me how different our approach to the field is at a deep level. There's obviously a lot of overlap in subject material and what data is available out there to license, but there's not a lot of overlap in fundamental system architecture or business strategy.

For new feature development, we tend to focus on what we can do well that also has value. "What we can do well" has more to do with what's a good fit for the existing architecture, infrastructure, and personnel than features of other software. "What has value" has more to do with our long-term strategic plans (which are pretty unique in the industry as far as I can tell) and what things users ask for along the way — and some of our users are familiar with how other software works and ask for things they like about it. And some ideas are just obviously good, no matter whether someone else does them or not.

Occasionally someone says we should do a feature because product X or Y does it. I usually reject that argument as irrelevant and go on ask about the underlying tasks, goals, and user scenarios that are supported by the feature instead. Then we debate those scenarios on the merits and (maybe) look to address them in a Logos-y way.

I've never once used Accordance as a visual reference. I'm sure it's fine software, and this is just my bias speaking, but it sort of hurts my head to look at it. Smile

Rev. 14:6:
However, the old idea that accordance is for original language bible study and Logos is an e-reader, is really not relevant at all any longer.

Very true. That hasn't been the case since, oh, 2003 ish? Smile

Rev. 14:6:
However, I know they have heard this before, Logos do not overlook the small stuff.  Give us the speed of Accordance in searching!  This may be a small thing but those small things do matter to us. 

It's not a small thing, actually. It's largely a function of the different architectural approaches to electronic texts I've alluded to. Logos books are essentially documents, that is, large, mostly unstructured chunks of text, with indexes for finding locations within them at the time a search is executed. Accordance and Bibleworks modules (last I checked, which was a while ago, so apologies if this isn't the case any more) are essentially databases, that is, small, highly structured chunks of data that are assembled at run time to resemble documents. We think the Logos architecture is more flexible and more closely models non-electronic books. This flexibility and higher-fidelity modeling of a print book is part of what allows us to have such an expansive and diverse library. Other architectures, on the other hand, are more readily optimized for speed.

Flexibility versus speed is one of the basic trade offs in computer science. We went one way, they went another. That said, we never stop optimizing. It matters to us, too! Smile

FWIW, the document model is the more prevalent model (see Kindle, Google) and we're confident it was the right choice. The way you have your flexibility and your speed, too is to put everything on a server where you can eat up hard drive and memory space with impunity. That's what we're doing with the Logos web app. The trade offs are shifted: Local/online versus The Cloud.

Cheers!

Page 5 of 8 (154 items) « First ... < Previous 3 4 5 6 7 Next > ... Last » | RSS