Babylonian Talmud, Soncino English Translation

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Mattillo | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 14 2016 7:09 AM

Wow this is awesome!  Thank you!!!

If I could... I've never used the Talmud before and I was curious how I would go about looking up items in it.  I included an image below because I remember hearing that working on the Sabbath is not allowed.  Is there a way to use this to find that? I noticed the names and chapters don't match up from whatever translation logos is using

Posts 215
Dudley C Rose | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 14 2016 12:56 PM

Mattillo - There are a few hurdles you'll need to overcome to connect the references in the Logos Neusner translation that your Logos search gives to the same section in Soncino PBB.

1) In the kind of search that matches a Biblical text with topics and sections in other resources, such as the Talmud, Logos will refer to official Logos resources, in this case Jacob Neusner's translation of the Talmud. There are two the Babylonian and the Jerusalem. in the screenshot below the section of references to the Babylonian Talmud are preceded b. So the first one points to the Babylonian Talmud, Shabbat 16:2. References to the Jerusalem Talmud are preceded by y. The first one in that section is to Kilayim 1:6. (FYI, The Babylonian Talmud is considered authoritative.)

2) Neusner's sectioning (Tractate Shabbat 16:2, for example) is not the same way the Soncino version divides the text. Soncino uses the more common Talmudic pagination in which each page is a 2-sided Vilna, numbered # a and b. So the location Shabbat 16:2 in Neusner is found beginning a paragraph into Shabbath 117B in the Soncino (note also the slightly different spelling of the Tractate).

3) Neusner is actually indexed by both pagination systems, but the Soncino indexing doesn't appear in most searches. If you have Logos's Neusner translation, you can reasonably easily match up his references with the Soncino locations. Without owning Neusner that's pretty hard to do.

4) Another option is to open  the Soncino Talmud and use the Logos Cited By tool to find the places in open resources, in this case the Talmud, which refer to a particular scripture passage. The Soncino is pretty good about footnoting where the Talmud is making Biblical references. So, for example if you run Cited By for Exodus 20:8-11, you will find several Concino Talmudic references, including Shabbath 117b.

Hope this helps. Unless you own Neusner, 4) will be your best bet, I think.

Mattillo:

If I could... I've never used the Talmud before and I was curious how I would go about looking up items in it.  I included an image below because I remember hearing that working on the Sabbath is not allowed.  Is there a way to use this to find that? I noticed the names and chapters don't match up from whatever translation logos is using

Posts 3741
Mattillo | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 14 2016 1:08 PM

That is very helpful. Thank you Mr. Rose. I'll try those tonight!

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 21 2016 5:48 AM

Somehow I missed this thread before. Thank you for sharing!

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Posts 156
Jesús Polaino | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 21 2016 10:02 AM

WOW!!!

Amazing job, thanks very much!!!!

My only question is how it should be compiled... as commentary maybe?

Blessings,

Posts 215
Dudley C Rose | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 21 2016 7:03 PM

I just compiled it as a monograph.

Posts 450
Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 22 2016 1:01 AM

My thanks also for your kindness in sharing this text.Yes

Posts 140
Mendel Itkin | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 30 2019 12:03 PM

I found a very easy solution for this. Just tag all headings in this format: [[@BabylonianTalmudFolio:b. Sanhedrin 22A]]. This allows that all links going to b. Sanhedrin 22a will open the right page. Here is an example that I compiled from Masekhet Berachot: 

8765.1_01_Berachoth.docx

Posts 215
Dudley C Rose | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 30 2019 2:01 PM

Mendel Itkin:

I found a very easy solution for this. Just tag all headings in this format: [[@BabylonianTalmudFolio:b. Sanhedrin 22A]]. This allows that all links going to b. Sanhedrin 22a will open the right page. Here is an example that I compiled from Masekhet Berachot: 

Thank you for working on this. I take it that you have automatically tagged the headings with the milestone. I'm not exactly sure how you did this; if you can let us know that would be excellent. The only problem I see is that once the heading (in this example, Sanhedrin 22A) is enclosed in the milestone markup, it no longer functions as a heading. The compiled Logos document doesn't have the Logos TOC, and the heading doesn't appear in the text. Do you have a simple way of creating [[@BabylonianTalmudFolio:b. Sanhedrin 22A]] Sanhedrin 22A, where the text outside the milestone (Sanhedrin 22A) 1) appears in the compiled text, 2) remains a heading and 3) keeps its heading level. I've resisted marking the text with milestones until I learn an easy way to automatically add them and still retain the heading properties.

Posts 140
Mendel Itkin | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 30 2019 2:28 PM

Dudley C Rose:
if you can let us know that would be excellent.

Word has a search and replace function, which I find horrible to work with but it's working. 

Dudley C Rose:
The compiled Logos document doesn't have the Logos TOC, and the heading doesn't appear in the text.

Do you mean like that? 

2818.1_01_Berachoth.docx

I am working now on the Steinsaltz Talmud from Sefaria, should be ready in couple hours. 

Posts 215
Dudley C Rose | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 30 2019 6:59 PM

Mendel Itkin:

Do you mean like that? 

2818.1_01_Berachoth.docx

Hi Mendel. Yes, that's what I want.

I'm a little obtuse, I think. I have used MS Word search and replace, but I can't quite figure out a search that finds all headings of Berachoth * and replaces it with [[@BabylonianTalmudFolio:B. Berakhot *]] B. Berakhot *. 

Posts 140
Mendel Itkin | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 31 2019 12:23 AM

Read this: https://www.howtogeek.com/362551/how-to-use-wildcards-when-searching-in-word-2016/

If you don't understand it, I will give you an example but you have first understand how it works. 

Posts 140
Mendel Itkin | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 31 2019 5:46 AM

Here is an example for Eiruvin. 

1. Turn on wildcards

2. Change the format for searching only font size 14 Pt and italics

3. search for: E*vin*[a-b]

4. replace with: [[@BabylonianTalmudFolio:b. ^&]] ^&

5. click replace all

Remember that the names of the Tractates need to match the Logos Names, otherwise it will not work. Here are the names:

Berakhot
Shabbat
Erubin
Pesachim
Rosh Hashshanah
Yoma
Sukkah
Besah
Taanit
Megillah
Moed Qatan
Hagigah
Yebamot
Ketubot
Nedarim
Nazir
Sotah
Gittin
Qiddushin
Baba Qamma
Baba Mesia
Baba Batra
Sanhedrin
Makkot
Shabuot
Abodah Zarah
Horayot
Zebahim
Menachot
Hullin
Bekhorot
Arakhin
Meilah
Tamid
Temurah
Keritot
Niddah

Posts 215
Dudley C Rose | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 31 2019 5:41 PM

Mendel, thanks for the examples. Very helpful.

Posts 215
Dudley C Rose | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 1 2019 8:10 PM

Thanks to Mendel's help, I was motivated to add milestones to the Soncino. The Soncino has several sections that are just Mishnah and no Gemara, so they aren't included in the Logos Babylonian Talmud milestones. For those I used the Mishnah milestones. For reasons I don't understand I couldn't get Tebul-Yom to accept a milestone, so that one has just the chapter headings. 

Let me know if you find anything else afoul. One other question. Is there a way to remove or mark the previous links above as out of date? 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/avd8icoo4u7dal1/Soncino%20Babylonian%20Talmud.zip?dl=0 

Posts 140
Mendel Itkin | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 2 2019 12:01 PM

Dudley C Rose:
I couldn't get Tebul-Yom to accept a milestone,

That's strange. Logos knows only the Tosefta. I could find only „t. Tebul-Yom“ but not „m. Tebul-Yom“. Do the mishna by Logos? 

Posts 215
Dudley C Rose | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 2 2019 1:31 PM

Mendel Itkin:

. Do the mishna by Logos? 

The Neusner Mishna by Logos has the milestone, so I don't know what gives.

Posts 140
Mendel Itkin | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 2 2019 1:43 PM

I just tried it and had success with this: [[@Mishnah:T. Yom 4:6]]

Posts 215
Dudley C Rose | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 2 2019 1:54 PM

Wow, that's good. I don't know how you thought of that! I had tried a ton of spellings, including putting in and leaving out a dash between the words, but it never occurred to me to abbreviate Tebul to T. Thank you, I'll fix the tractate and re-post the files. It will probably have to wait until tomorrow, though.

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