Problem with Inconsistent Display of Parallel Resource Icon

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Russ Quinn | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Jan 6 2010 9:59 AM | Locked

I am getting inconsistent results when I create custom collections to take advantage of the Parallel Resource Icon.

 

Here is a list of custom collections the only custom collection that do does generate a Parallel Resource Button:

  • "Commentaries on John" based on "type:commentary AND (title:John OR type:john) ANDNOT (subject:"1 John" OR subject:"2 John" OR  subject:"3 John" OR subject:"John, 1st" OR subject:"John, 2nd" OR subject:"John, 3rd" OR subject:revelation OR subject:"epistles of John")"

 

Here is a list of the custom collections that I have created that don't seem to generate the Parallel Resource Button in their respective resources:

 

  • "Greek Grammars" based on "type: grammar AND title:greek"
  • "Greek Lexicons" based on "title:Greek AND title:lexicon"
  • "Journals" using the query "type:journal" - none of the journals I opened in this collection had the button
  • "Luther's Works" using query "title:Luther's Works"
  • "OT in NT" based on a manually built collection of the following ten resources
    • Biblical Exegesis in the Apostolic Period
    • A Biblical Theology of the New Testament
    • A Biblical Theology of the Old Testament
    • Commentary on the New Testament Use of the Old Testament
    • Dictionary for the Theological Interpretation of the Bible
    • Dictionary of New Testament Background
    • Evangelical Dictionary of Biblical Theology
    • New Dictionary of Biblical Theology
    • The Right Doctrine from the Wrong Texts?
    • The Use of the Septuagint in New Testament Research
  • "Spurgeon's Sermons" based on "title:spurgeon"
  • "Systematic Theology" based on "title:"systematic theology" OR title:dogmatic OR subject:"Theology, Doctrinal." ANDNOT title:Magazine"

 

A few collections have mixed results among its resources:

 

  • "Greek Syntax" based on "title:lexham" plus these resource added manually: Cascadia and Opentext
    • Interestingly with this collection, out of the 19 resources in the collection, different numbers show up for different resources. Opentext does not show up in the list for the button and itself does not display the button when it is opened as a resource. Cascadia and Lexham resources, however, do show the button and are displayed on the list.
  • "Primary Sources Biblical Backgrounds" based on a manual list of the following 11 resources (I am starring the ones that lack the Parallel Resource Icon):
    • Apocrypha of the Old Testament by Charles*
    • The Apocryphal New Testament by William Hone *
    • The Apocryphal New Testament by MR James *
    • The Apostolic Fathers: English Translations by Holmes
    • The Apostolic Fathers: Greek Texts by Holmes
    • Lake's Apostolic Fathers in English
    • Lake's Apostolic Fathers in Greek
    • Pseudepigrapha of the Old Testament by Charles *
    • Works of Josephus: New Updated Edition
    • The Works of Flavius Josephus: Greek Text with Morphology
    • The Works of Philo
    • The Works of Philo: Greek Text with Morphology
    • The interesting thing about this collection is that while the Apostolic Fathers, Josephus and Philo all have the icon, they don't list everything from the whole collection. The icon in Lake and Holmes only lists the four resources associated with Lake and Holmes, Philo only lists Philo in Greek and Philo in English, and Josephus only lists Josephus in Greek and Josephus in English. Also, further complicating the plot is that when I experimented with removing Josephus in Greek from the collection, I found that the English translation of Josephus lost its Parallel Resource icon.

 

I have also noticed that some collections that do not generate the icon also do not allow changing to related resources using the arrow buttons. For instance none of the Greek Grammar or the Systematic Theology resources allow changing to a related resource with the arrow keys. However, the Greek Lexicons while not having the icon do allow resource switching with the arrow keys.

Also, I have the same problems indicated above whether these resources are part of a saved layout, opened within a blank layout, or floated in its own panel.

Apparently creating custom collections is not the only determinative factor related to enabling the Parallel Resource icon.

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Bradley Grainger (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 6 2010 10:41 AM | Locked

Russ Quinn:

Apparently creating custom collections is not the only determinative factor related to enabling the Parallel Resource icon.

Parallel Resources are designed to let you change resources while keeping the current reference the same.

The resources also need to have a data type reference that can be navigated to in other resources in the collection. For example, Biblical Exegesis in the Apostolic Period, is only indexed by page number; there's no "current reference" to look up in another resource. (It may be the case that only data type references, not headwords, are supported right now; we will look into this.)

Luther's Works do have a data type reference (Bible), but each reference only occurs in one volume. I'm not sure how you would envision Parallel Resources working in this set: if you're at Gen 1:1 in Volume 1, there's no other volume that contains Gen 1:1 that you could switch to.

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Russ Quinn | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 6 2010 11:25 AM | Locked

Bradley,

Thank you so much for the helpful clarification. This is making more sense to me now.

That explains most of the behavior I noted. I wouldn't expect Luther's Works to have Parallels Resources in light of better understanding how this works.

Two quick questions:

1. Would the support of headwords as reference types enable the icon for switching between lexicons like BDAG and EDNT that are indexed by Greek headwords as well as dictionaries that are indexed on English headwords?

2. This not that big of a deal for my ability to work but I'm just curious . . . why would Opentext not be in parallel with Cascadia and the other Lexham resources in the same collection since they all utilize verse references based on Index Bible (NA27)?

Again, thanks for the help.

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 6 2010 1:07 PM | Locked

Bradley Grainger:
The resources also need to have a data type reference that can be navigated to in other resources in the collection.

I do not have a parallel reference icon for most of my Greek lexicons, including BDAG. I have a collection called Greek Lexicons of which BDAG is a part:

You can see that the parallel resource icon is missing on BDAG:

The TDNT has a parallel reference icon but a very short list of comparable resources not including BDAG:

I don't understand the missing icon in BDAG (and many others) and the list produced for TDNT. Is this a bug or is something else going on?

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

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Russ Quinn | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 6 2010 1:18 PM | Locked

Thanks for posting that, Mark.

I hadn't noticed that TDNT and those other lexicons had the icon.

That weakens the theory that headwords aren't yet supported (at least partially).

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Bradley Grainger (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 6 2010 1:56 PM | Locked

Mark A. Smith:

I don't understand the missing icon in BDAG (and many others) and the list produced for TDNT. Is this a bug or is something else going on?

My guess is that it's using Greek Strong's numbers as the basis of the parallel resource set, not Greek headwords. (The spec for the feature was a little unclear on how to handle headwords, so I'm not sure what's supposed to happen, other than "it should just work" Smile)

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Bradley Grainger (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 6 2010 2:10 PM | Locked

Russ Quinn:

1. Would the support of headwords as reference types enable the icon for switching between lexicons like BDAG and EDNT that are indexed by Greek headwords as well as dictionaries that are indexed on English headwords?

Yes, it would, and I believe we plan to add that support.

 

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Bradley Grainger (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 6 2010 2:11 PM | Locked

Russ Quinn:

That weakens the theory that headwords aren't yet supported (at least partially).

I can confirm that headwords aren't supported; the lexicons in which the Parallel Resources icon appears are those that have other data type references in them (e.g., Strong's numbers, GK numbers, etc.)

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Russ Quinn | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 6 2010 2:22 PM | Locked

Bradley Grainger:

Russ Quinn:

1. Would the support of headwords as reference types enable the icon for switching between lexicons like BDAG and EDNT that are indexed by Greek headwords as well as dictionaries that are indexed on English headwords?

Yes, it would, and I believe we plan to add that support.

Thanks for that, Bradley. It is very encouraging to know where things like these are headed.

This feature really opens up the software to more effective workflows. I am looking forward to its full implementation.

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 6 2010 5:19 PM | Locked

Bradley,

Thanks for your update on this. This is a great feature, and so much better than PRA's in L3. Obviously, without headword support the feature is useful only for commentaries and bibles but it's good to know progress and we'll wait patiently for the headword update.

Can I point out some other problems?

  • First, the main problem for me is that I can't restrict which collections appear. I have more than 20 collections, some of them unsuitable for PRAs (for example, collections based on ratings). I really need to be able to exclude these.
  • Second, I've noticed that the PRA indicator still sometimes appears when the current index is set to page. It usually disappears afterwards (when you click elsewhere?) but it definitely displays at times.
  • Third, I'm unable to guess why my first collection has a large tick by it.
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Bradley Grainger (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 6 2010 5:29 PM | Locked

Mark Barnes:

  • First, the main problem for me is that I can't restrict which collections appear. I have more than 20 collections, some of them unsuitable for PRAs (for example, collections based on ratings). I really need to be able to exclude these.
  • Second, I've noticed that the PRA indicator still sometimes appears when the current index is set to page. It usually disappears afterwards (when you click elsewhere?) but it definitely displays at times.
  • Third, I'm unable to guess why my first collection has a large tick by it.

  1. We wanted to see if just using all collections by default would work or not (the spec left it an open issue for the first round). Thanks for letting us know that it doesn't work for you; I'll pass your feedback on to the designer.
  2. Can you provide a bit more detail on this? Which resources does it occur in? (Note that the behavior is changing a little in Beta 2, so you might not see it happen anymore.)
  3. The tick identifies your "current" parallel resource set. Eventually, pressing left and right arrow will cycle through the resources in the current set (they ignore it right now). We're trying to fix the major complaint about placing a resource in two PRAs in LDLS3.

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 6 2010 6:11 PM | Locked

Bradley Grainger:

  1. We wanted to see if just using all collections by default would work or not (the spec left it an open issue for the first round). Thanks for letting us know that it doesn't work for you; I'll pass your feedback on to the designer.
  2. Can you provide a bit more detail on this? Which resources does it occur in? (Note that the behavior is changing a little in Beta 2, so you might not see it happen anymore.)
  3. The tick identifies your "current" parallel resource set. Eventually, pressing left and right arrow will cycle through the resources in the current set (they ignore it right now). We're trying to fix the major complaint about placing a resource in two PRAs in LDLS3.

  1. Thanks for the prompt feedback. The screenshot below shows one of my collections entirely unsuitable for PRAs!
  2. I'm using beta 2 now. I've not found a commentary I can't replicate this on. To replicate, open the resource, drag the slider to part of the commentary with a Bible reference. Then drag the commentary to a part with just a page number (early in the resource). Some (but not all) of the time, you'll get the PRA icon. Screenshot attached.
  3. I suspected the tick might identify the current PRS. I can see now I can switching sets by clicking on a resource in another set. Previously I had tried clicking on the column header to achieve this (which as well as being more intuitive would also be more useful, as I may want to change the set without changing the resource in order to later use the arrow keys to cycle).

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 6 2010 7:43 PM | Locked

Bradley Grainger:
I can confirm that headwords aren't supported

This would be the reason that dictionaries show no parallel resource icons. Adding this functionality is needed. Thanks to those who've made this happen so far.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

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Jon | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 10 2010 1:16 AM | Locked

Mark Barnes:
The screenshot below shows one of my collections entirely unsuitable for PRAs!

I'm absolutely fascinated - what is the use of a collection of resources that you don't rate highly? Smile

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 10 2010 2:43 AM | Locked

Bradley Grainger:

  • We wanted to see if just using all collections by default would work or not (the spec left it an open issue for the first round). Thanks for letting us know that it doesn't work for you; I'll pass your feedback on to the designer.
  • For similar reasons it does not work for me, either.

    I have a collection called "All but Bibles" which obviously has a large membership (738) and will take some time to parse for the specific data type. It would be helpful therefore to be able to nominate collections as PRA's (or NOT). This is getting closer to the L3 implementation, especially when headwords are included.

    The following illustrates the problem:

    All but Bibles exposes the resources I do not consider to be Lexicons; therefore whilst useful as a collection it should not be used as a PRA. And when headwords are implemented Lexicons will include Louw-Nida, ANLEX and Lexham Analytical Lexicon ie. PRA should work on the active index.

    Dave
    ===

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    Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 10 2010 5:26 AM | Locked

    Jon Rumble:

    Mark Barnes:
    The screenshot below shows one of my collections entirely unsuitable for PRAs!

    I'm absolutely fascinated - what is the use of a collection of resources that you don't rate highly? Smile

    You need to watch Mark's video series on creating collections to see how he uses that. It's quite clever. I think it's in the second video, where he talks about nested collections.

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    MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 10 2010 9:37 PM | Locked

    Jon Rumble:
    I'm absolutely fascinated - what is the use of a collection of resources that you don't rate highly?

    I have one too. It contains the stuff I want to search once in a blue moon at most - primarily when researching topics that seem so off-the-wall to me that I don't understand why someone one say that.

    Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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    Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 11 2010 4:09 AM | Locked

    Jon Rumble:

    I'm absolutely fascinated - what is the use of a collection of resources that you don't rate highly? Smile

    As Rosie points out, it is in one of my videos. But if you don't have time to watch it basically that collection contains all resources that are rated less than four. I never search that collection directly. But when (for example) I create a collection called "Bible Dictionaries" there'll be several resources in there I don't use often or simply don't like. So I create a new collection called "Bible Dictionaries (Favourite)". There's no search string for that collection. it just INCLUDES all the resources in my Bible Dictionaries collection, and EXCLUDES all the resources in my "Not highly rated" collection, leaving me with just my favourite dictionaries. I do the same for lexicons, and several of my other collections.

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