Logos Refund, or readjustment of spending

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This post has 13 Replies | 2 Followers

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Jesse Gentile | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Sep 25 2014 10:52 PM

Hi. Just over a year ago, our family sold everything we owned and moved from Florida to California with 2 cars and what could fit in them. I knew I would be going to seminary at Talbot school of theology. In preparation from the move I invited my church over and sold hundreds of books that I had on my shelves (1000+ in my library perhaps). With those and other funds I purchased the Logos diamond package, and added in the Nelson package. I also added in the Pillar biblical commentary and have since added 15 or so other books. My investment, WITH the academic discount was $3800 approx. 

Today, after actually moving and working in an academic context and ... REALLY having a chance to make use of this (if ever once has a chance it would be a graduate student in theology)... I have to admit that probably 75% of what I purchased I have never used. I feel like I may have been a poor steward of my money. 

Since much of this is digital, is there a way that a customer could get a return on at least a portion of their purchase? Downgrade to a package, or even reassemble a custom package based on what they might actually use, now that they've had logos for a while to work with?

Jesse

Posts 1825
mike | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 25 2014 11:36 PM

Sorry Jesse, I feel you ..

Logos makes their money from that 75% book fluffs you're talking about....well sometimes.

Posts 406
Erik | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 25 2014 11:59 PM

Jesse Gentile:

Hi. Just over a year ago, our family sold everything we owned and moved from Florida to California with 2 cars and what could fit in them. I knew I would be going to seminary at Talbot school of theology. In preparation from the move I invited my church over and sold hundreds of books that I had on my shelves (1000+ in my library perhaps). With those and other funds I purchased the Logos diamond package, and added in the Nelson package. I also added in the Pillar biblical commentary and have since added 15 or so other books. My investment, WITH the academic discount was $3800 approx. 

Today, after actually moving and working in an academic context and ... REALLY having a chance to make use of this (if ever once has a chance it would be a graduate student in theology)... I have to admit that probably 75% of what I purchased I have never used. I feel like I may have been a poor steward of my money. 

Since much of this is digital, is there a way that a customer could get a return on at least a portion of their purchase? Downgrade to a package, or even reassemble a custom package based on what they might actually use, now that they've had logos for a while to work with?

Jesse

Hello Jesse, even if it were possible to divest yourself of specific resources (which you really can't do with books that were purchased in a base package, but you can sell off collections or individual books that were add-ons...one caveat is that books purchased with the academic discount are not transferable except to heirs), I would encourage you to hold on to them. 

Part of the point of a theological library is to have resources "just in case".  Whether your ultimate goal is full-time ministry or academia, having a complete and diversified library allows you to seek out answers to questions in the future.  It will make you a better pastor or theologian in the long run.  Although you may not sense a present need, I can assure you that down the road you will find value in the library.  I've been in seminary for two years, but I've been a Logos user for eight.  I have invested enough to purchase a small automobile and I am grateful to have the ability to avoid going to the library for my research papers.  Logos has made me a better student and as the spiritual leader in my home, I have used Logos countless times to research topics that have come up in daily life for my family.  What I might have deemed "fluff" a few short years ago has become indispensable later. 

I'm sorry to hear that you don't find Diamond useful, but I think only one year of experience isn't enough to truthfully say that you've given yourself enough time to use Logos and find full value in it.  I'd recommend you give it more time...see where the Lord takes you.  You might just be surprised. Smile

Posts 1874
Alan Macgregor | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 26 2014 1:52 AM

Jesse

I've been a minister of the Gospel now for just shy of 22 years. I have had and used Logos for 20+ years. In that time I have found that book use is cyclical. Some books, particularly commentaries get short bursts of intense use and then are unused for long periods of time. Of course, there are some books that are barely used. The thing is they are there included in your Logos searches, so you can use them if required. Most of a pastor's library is like that!. I'm pretty sure that your usage of your 1000+ print library was like that!

This week, for example, I have used only 4 books in my sermon preparation (so far). I've consulted 2 others in my part-time academic research. Incidentally, I would never have been able to complete my part-time PhD at Aberdeen University without Logos, its search and time-saving capabilities.

Over my years in ministry I find that it is the odd insightful sentence from a resource, opened in a search, that I didn't even know I had that gets the thought processes going. I would strongly advise against disposing of bits of your Logos library at this stage. It is not bulky to move around! It doesn't get in the way! It can be "shelved" just as you want it at the moment. You can have far more open on your desktop than you ever could on a real desk! You never know when a long-forgotten resource will produce that "citation" that turns an argument in a paper or sermon.

Every blessing

Alan

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 26 2014 4:20 AM

Jesse Gentile:
I have to admit that probably 75% of what I purchased I have never used.

The advantage of Logos is having a digital research library... which isn't the same as having a collection of books which you have read. Being able to search your entire library allows you to serendipitously discover things which you didn't know you had access to... But that only comes from having a large, digital research library. 

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Posts 499
SteveHD | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 26 2014 7:02 AM

I have the same feeling thought no pressure at this time to need the money back. It may just be a good spin but I have reached to sooth my conscience. Here is the conclusion about the excess spent on books I may never need.

Logos (Faithlife) is a ministry. Yes a retailer but also a ministry. The extra services they have developed and provide were not free for them. I do not count this as giving my tithe but I do count it as giving to a ministry and therefore back to God for His use. While books I never use may be excess, they are not frivolous or useless.

I know that may not help with the pain of moving and displacement. Feeling like you really could use that money now. How many times have you given money to back to God and had the same feeling. Then when you see success in a missions field or other support program and realized how glad you are to have been a part.

Posts 8601
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 26 2014 7:04 AM

Would that I could find the recent article I read.  Something to the effect of:

I have many books in my library that I have never read, this does not make me a fraud, it makes me prepared for the day when I shall need to look into some previously unexplored area and discover that I have the books already at hand.

That said, all we can do is offer advice here, much of it may sound like the above - many of us being book fiends.  However, your answer will not be obtained here. For that you really should call Logos customer service directly.

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 26 2014 8:27 AM

I can't imagine going to Talbot with a large package from Logos (given how they're packaged).  If indeed an individual sees a no-use in the equation, and a better-use as well, then obviously the latter is the preferred.

I'm quite happy I avoided the package-path years back.  I ended up with books that do well in my searches, and work well with folks I chat with and need more info. Plus I don't have to plan for possible searches when I'm 83.  

If the shoe doesn't fit, don't hobble around.  Get another shoe.


Posts 5
Jesse Gentile | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 26 2014 8:36 AM

Thanks everyone. I actually agree with you all in some respects about cyclical use of books and having resources for the future.   My interest was not really in getting money back. My interest was in re-adjusting purchases.You never know unless you ask. 

Now that someone has mentioned it though... someone did say you could sell books that you purchased that were not part of a package... but .. also that were not part of academic pricing? I'm just curious. There is so much to learn about Logos. 

BY THE WAY... I THINK THIS IS A GREAT PRODUCT. 

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TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 26 2014 8:40 AM

Jesse Gentile:
someone did say you could sell books that you purchased that were not part of a package... but .. also that were not part of academic pricing? I'm just curious.

Yes, you can sell such books to someone else using craigslist or ebay or something.  There is a processing fee ($20 I think) because of the database manipulation (human interaction) required to transfer the license.   The license transfer is done by calling Customer Service.

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Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 26 2014 9:47 AM

There's a Faithlife group I've started, for creating a budget and cancelling orders: https://faithlife.com/creating-a-budget-and-canceling-orders/activity

Aply!
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mab | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 27 2014 10:32 PM

I agree with the others that you really don't read a library. You search it. Chances are you will use a whole lot more as you go. 

I've sort of overindulged in Logos, but it's still a pittance. Think of the hundreds or thousands of years of effort behind all those works. And we have it literally at our fingertips.

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Veli Voipio | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 29 2014 10:57 AM

SHotchkiss:
The extra services they have developed and provide were not free for them. ... I do count it as giving to a ministry and therefore back to God for His use

I think the same way - I've spent an excess, but on the other hand, I keep on finding interesting info in books I thought are not relevant.

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Rev Chris | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 29 2014 11:24 AM

Since it's been over a year since you made the purchase, I doubt you can get a refund.  (If it was last week, you probably could).  Had you asked me a year ago, I probably would not have recommended spending $3,800 on the Diamond package before going to seminary.  Not because it's a waste of money, but because your classes will likely require completely different books.  Build up your library while you're in seminary and learn all you can.  Then know that you have a premiere software package that will last you years.

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