Request: God and The Gay Christian

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This post has 38 Replies | 2 Followers

Posts 81
Doug Hanna | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, Oct 18 2014 3:13 PM

Will there ever be a Logos edition of God and The Gay Christian by Matthew Vines?

What about the response from the faculty of Southern Seminary?

This sort of controversial book is perfect for Logos. Help us respond and study deeper these critical issues.

Posts 5315
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 18 2014 4:46 PM

Yes

Posts 1811
Robert M. Warren | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 18 2014 7:08 PM

Having heard Mr. Vines' presentation from 2012, the preparation for which apparently required him to drop out of college for two years (!?), I can't imagine what might be study-worthy in his book.

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Posts 2971
Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 18 2014 7:37 PM

Robert M. Warren:
I can't imagine what might be study-worthy in his book.

There was nothing new or even innovative in Mr. Vines' arguments; they were pretty much warmed over stuff from previous generations. But the arguments he made, and as another reply referenced, the responses to them (particularly those by Mohler, et. al. at Southern), would make a great Logos tool for dealing with these kinds of issues. In particular, dissecting bad exegesis built on faulty hermeneutic is often much easier when the necessary references are a click away.

I like the idea of having this in Logos, even though like you I find nothing of intrinsic value in the book.

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

Posts 3258
Whyndell Grizzard | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 18 2014 7:40 PM
I hope it never gets into Logos- LBGT propaganda- Matthew Vines needs to repent and turn from his "SIN"- yes sin- orientation is a typical lie fostered by lost minds blinded to the truth of Scripture, enforced by Satanic influence.
Posts 11312
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 18 2014 8:17 PM

Kind of doubt the propaganda.

Not more than a few decades back, mental illness was demonic. Sin! Read it right there in the NT! Before that, stringing witches up. Sin! Before that, burning other Christians at the stake for a Bible in english. Sin! Before that slavery was God's punishment. Sin! And before that, women created sin. Powerful ladies! Christians pretty much got sin nailed down real good.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 94
Rokas | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 19 2014 12:01 AM

Denise:

Kind of doubt the propaganda.

Not more than a few decades back, mental illness was demonic. Sin! Read it right there in the NT! Before that, stringing witches up. Sin! Before that, burning other Christians at the stake for a Bible in english. Sin! Before that slavery was God's punishment. Sin! And before that, women created sin. Powerful ladies! Christians pretty much got sin nailed down real good.

straw man Sad

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 19 2014 12:12 AM

Robert M. Warren:

I can't imagine what might be study-worthy in his book.

I really enjoyed the period of time when the convention on the forums was to not comment on any suggested resource if one's comment was negative. It had been initiated when several people complained that making suggestions felt like running the gauntlet. And we have two excellent methods of expressing our dislike of a resource that don't feel like a gauntlet - don't purchase the resource OR purchase it, read it carefully and write a thoughtful negative review.

While the book holds no particular interest to me, my imagination is quite capable of understanding why it might be profitable reading.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 19 2014 12:19 AM

Whyndell - you're veering off into theology again in a way I find personally offensive. Why? Because I am perfectly capable of making my own choices - including the deliberate choice to read theological garbage so that I understand where particular groups stand and can better minister to them especially by being an example that lovingly contradicts some point of their theological garbage. And, yes, I know you have no interest in my reading of choice -- Biblical and other Christian Sogdian texts from the Turfan Collection being my most recent suggestion.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1811
Robert M. Warren | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 19 2014 4:04 AM

MJ. Smith:
I really enjoyed the period of time when the convention on the forums was to not comment on any suggested resource if one's comment was negative. It had been initiated when several people complained that making suggestions felt like running the gauntlet.

Well, excuuuuse me,

Is there no suggestion that can be considered ridiculous?

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Posts 1739
Ken McGuire | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 19 2014 4:15 AM

Personally I think that Mollenkott/Scanzoni book Is the Homosexual my Neighbor? should be in Logos

Robert M. Warren:
Is there no suggestion that can be considered ridiculous?

Chariots of the Gods? by Erick von Daeniken???

The Gospel is not ... a "new law," on the contrary, ... a "new life." - William Julius Mann

L8 Anglican, Lutheran and Orthodox Silver, Reformed Starter, Academic Essentials

L7 Lutheran Gold, Anglican Bronze

Posts 3770
Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 19 2014 4:18 AM

I guess for some of us it still matters that Logos remains different from a secular company like say Amazon, where one may choose to purchase a Bible but can just as well purchase pornography. This means that we would like to keep certain areas of our life free from being invaded by obsession on issues that are already sufficiently imposed on us everywhere else.

There is, for that matter, no just reason why a comment comparing Christian posture toward homosexuality to past shameful treatment of mental illnesses (with all it implies) should be allowed, unmarked, while comments the other way are picked on. The field is not even.

I recall having a heated discussion in the old days with a Bible College professor who argued with me that watching pornography could be allowable for study purposes! Not everything goes for the sake of study.

Fact is that the very suggestion of this thread is too controversial. 

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Whyndell Grizzard | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 19 2014 4:45 AM

Thanks Francis- what I stated was my view of the book. 

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 19 2014 6:12 AM

Francis:
I guess for some of us it still matters that Logos remains different from a secular company like say Amazon, where one may choose to purchase a Bible but can just as well purchase pornography. This means that we would like to keep certain areas of our life free from being invaded by obsession on issues that are already sufficiently imposed on us everywhere else.

But that's the point. Some of us may be able to keep their life (or certain areas thereof) free from certain discussions. They may simply choose to ignore respective material in the Logos offering. Others will find the discussion is imposed on them, whether they like it or not. 

The book suggested in this thread is remarkable for the fact that its author self-identifies as an evangelical Christian, and he undertakes to make his argument as an exegetical evaluation of "What The Bible Says About". His arguments may not be new (I seem to read that some are conceded even by those who oppose his overall conclusion), but this book - seemingly very successful in terms of media awareness as well as sales - is perhaps much more likely to fall into the hands of evangelical church members who want to find out by themselves. So I suspect pastors would want to have read it when they are asked about it in their congregation. And with a book in Logos, it's easier to find out whether the arguments hold true, line up with trusted commentaries (or not) and where they go astray. 

 

Running Logos 9 latest (beta) version on Win 10

Posts 3770
Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 19 2014 6:43 AM

NB.Mick:
but this book - seemingly very successful in terms of media awareness as well as sales - is perhaps much more likely to fall into the hands of evangelical church members who want to find out by themselves. So I suspect pastors would want to have read it when they are asked about it in their congregation

I hear what you are saying Mick, but disagree. If a pastor wants to read this, they can get it on amazon or other sites. A years back, the Da Vinci Code made a media splash: should Logos have it available so that pastors can read it and have an opinion of their own? My point is that this kind of argument opens the net too wide. 

At the other end of the spectrum, there are bigots like me who do not find it particularly funny when they look for a book on amazon and have to scroll through moral garbage, or to use another example, be flooded by lgbt movies on netflix. That's what I mean by being able to still have a "smoke-free" environment where we can retreat and not be exposed to the second-hand stuff we don't want. 

There is place for these conversations, but they must not be given the kind of prominent place some would have us believe these topics deserve. I am thinking along the lines of Ephesians 5:12 "for it is disgraceful even to speak of the things which are done by them in secret".

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Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 19 2014 6:47 AM

Not familiar with the author or the work cited.

If it has to do with the interpretation of scripture on Homosexuality (regardless of the authors conclusion) it belongs in Logos. See my signature.

Lynden Williams Communications https://www.lyndenwilliams.net 

Posts 1216
Matt Hamrick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 19 2014 6:54 AM

YesYes I would love both resources in Logos Bible Software. 

Posts 1811
Robert M. Warren | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 19 2014 6:55 AM

Ken McGuire:
Chariots of the Gods? by Erick von Daeniken???

Ken's trolling for old-timers Smile

Rod Serling actually made a TV program out of that stinker. I recall RS actually kept a straight-face while saying that the design specs for the Ark of the Covenant would produce a radio receiver. Travelling in another dimension, indeed.

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Posts 11312
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 19 2014 6:58 AM

Rokas, your strawman is too facile. The reason books like this (along with the evangelical discussions of women) belong isn't due to their 'theology'.  Or 'I'm right and you make me uncomfortable!'

Rather each of the examples I listed were well meaning Christians, well endowed with belief, and well endowed with an ability to read/study/exegete.  But at one point in time, their opinion/behavior was in one direction and later the other.  How is that possible?   How does that fit in with how humans inter-react with the writing?

In the gay case,  if I were a Christian leader, I'd be non-plus'd these days.  The reason is exactly as above.  How can a sizable population (and a sizable Christian population) completely switch gears so quickly?  People say 'propaganda!'.  But they don't look at how the argument changed gears. Where were the pastors? And the discussion in Italy this week further illustrates the problem.  Bishops? When people can see their kids,  what do pastors (and early Christian writers) do with 'sin'.

And the argument does have legs.  I grew up with my Mother tagged as 'sin!!'.  'Lazy!!'  But it was mental illness.  I found that out later. They could have told me when I was young.  But they didn't;  'sin' was too easy. It's in the Bible!  And I hope no one's assuming I'm equating mental illness with gay; rather how Bible reading interfaces with realities.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

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