Can Speed Search / Bible Index be optional features?

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, Jan 9 2010 5:42 AM | Locked

It looks like I may have an extra 1.5+ hours of indexing just to support Speed Search which doesn't sufficiently improve speed to make it a "must have" feature. If a bible is updated it would mean indexing for the Library and for the Bibles. So I would suggest this be an optional feature (and save c. 1 GB of HD space).

There are a number of related issues:

  • Will Bible Index have a supplementary index?
  • What will "Merge Index" mean?
  • What will "Rebuild Index" mean?

Dave
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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 9 2010 6:00 AM | Locked

+1 Yes

I don't use it and would support having it be optional. I'd prefer a "speed indexing" feature.Smile

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Russ Quinn | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 9 2010 6:45 AM | Locked

Are we sure that the only reason for the Bible Only Index is Speed Search or does it increase the speed of all Bible searches?

I haven't seen much detail of how this works and would be interested to know.

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PL | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 9 2010 7:30 AM | Locked

Russ Quinn:
I haven't seen much detail of how this works and would be interested to know.

I agree.  When I installed the beta 2, I gave "Speed Search" one try and then immediately turned it off.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 9 2010 7:33 AM | Locked

Russ Quinn:

Are we sure that the only reason for the Bible Only Index is Speed Search or does it increase the speed of all Bible searches?

[I assume you mean all searches on bible resources]  The Library Index was not touched on installation, but it could lose the bibles on subsequent indexing if that is so. However, when I did a Basic Search of English Bibles I got the New Resources section for God's Word Translation (which is in the Supplementary of the Library Index). I assume the Bible Index, therefore, is used only for Speed Search and Search in Bible Search.

Dave
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Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 9 2010 7:38 AM | Locked

One thing to note is that the speed search isn't working exactly right yet...it's treating words as all separate searches...and so it's slow..

it's supposed to assume "phrases" in the next beta...that should help...

 

What I find amusing is the amount of "THIS IS A MUST HAVE FEATURE!" sort of conversation,  that went on before and now that Logos has implimented it...now the first conversation is "how can we turn it off?

 

Big Smile

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

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BillS | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 9 2010 10:51 AM | Locked

Robert Pavich:
What I find amusing is the amount of "THIS IS A MUST HAVE FEATURE!" sort of conversation,  that went on before and now that Logos has implimented it...now the first conversation is "how can we turn it off?

LOL!

 

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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 9 2010 10:57 AM | Locked

Robert Pavich:
What I find amusing is the amount of "THIS IS A MUST HAVE FEATURE!" sort of conversation,  that went on before and now that Logos has implimented it...now the first conversation is "how can we turn it off?

One reason for this is that "speed search" is slower than both regular searching and speed search in Libronix. This is because Logos4 is comparing what we type with a list of accepted words before performing the search. Libronix speed search does not this and Logos4 regular search seems to do this faster, for some reason.

I'm hoping that if this feature is implemented as it is currently designed that it's name be changed from "Speed Search" to something more in line with it's design and performance: "Search as you Type." It does have some value, but it's not what I was hoping for in bringing speed search back.

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 9 2010 2:14 PM | Locked

Robert Pavich:
What I find amusing is the amount of "THIS IS A MUST HAVE FEATURE!" sort of conversation,  that went on before and now that Logos has implimented it...now the first conversation is "how can we turn it off?

I rarely used/needed Libronix Speed Search so I wasn't in the L4 brigade for "speed"! And implemented this way it's another search with an index and associated bugs.

Dave
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John Fidel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 9 2010 3:16 PM | Locked

Richard,

I agree that the speed search should not be looking for words.. just start searching like L3 in order to be as useful as the previous version.

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Russ Quinn | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 9 2010 3:53 PM | Locked

Dave Hooton:

[I assume you mean all searches on bible resources]  The Library Index was not touched on installation, but it could lose the bibles on subsequent indexing if that is so. However, when I did a Basic Search of English Bibles I got the New Resources section for God's Word Translation (which is in the Supplementary of the Library Index). I assume the Bible Index, therefore, is used only for Speed Search and Search in Bible Search.

Dave, you know much more about how all this works than I do but wouldn't make sense if there were a separate index for all Bible and morphologically tagged texts (biblical and non biblical).

Perhaps, the goal of the separate index is to get near instantaneous results in any search dealing with primary sources?

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Russ Quinn | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 9 2010 4:08 PM | Locked

John Fidel:

Richard,

I agree that the speed search should not be looking for words.. just start searching like L3 in order to be as useful as the previous version.

They certainly compete against each other as they are currently implemented.

The results of either the Speed Search or the word suggestion list are not logically consistent.
What is the rationale behind "Jo" only producing a result of "Joed" from Neh 11:7 and nothing for "Joseph", "Joab", "Joshua", "john", "Job", etc.?
What is the rationale behind the sorting order of the word suggestions?
Word suggestions for "Jo" include "John", "Job", "Joshua" and then scroll down to reveal "Joseph", "Joy", "Josh".
This is obviously not sorted alphabetically or based on frequency.

What if the word suggestions were a) truly instantaneous (or at least faster than the speed results) and b) alphabetized with all entries clearly visible with no need to scroll?

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 9 2010 6:11 PM | Locked

Russ Quinn:
Dave, you know much more about how all this works than I do but wouldn't make sense if there were a separate index for all Bible and morphologically tagged texts (biblical and non biblical).

The feature is stated as "Added Bibles-only search index". At the moment we see that Basic Search uses the Library Index for bibles and we will have an overhead of indexing because the Library Index will need the same capabilities for morphological searching. I'm not sure that the Bible Index also caters for non-bibles - in which case it should be called Morph Index! I'm sure that Bradley will resolve the issue of what index is used for what search, but it would have been better to have a decent explanation in the Release Notes, and let us get on with testing instead of speculating.

Dave
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Bradley Grainger (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 11 2010 5:28 PM | Locked

Dave Hooton:

Russ Quinn:

Are we sure that the only reason for the Bible Only Index is Speed Search or does it increase the speed of all Bible searches?

[I assume you mean all searches on bible resources]  The Library Index was not touched on installation, but it could lose the bibles on subsequent indexing if that is so. However, when I did a Basic Search of English Bibles I got the New Resources section for God's Word Translation (which is in the Supplementary of the Library Index). I assume the Bible Index, therefore, is used only for Speed Search and Search in Bible Search.

It's definitely used for the two search types in "Bible Search". It was designed to be used by Morph Search if you were searching only Bibles, but I think that was disabled in a previous beta (as a quick way to fix a bug that occurred when morph searching non-Bibles).

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