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This post has 105 Replies | 4 Followers

Posts 7
Bob Lozano | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 27 2014 7:06 PM

Todd White (Faithlife):

I'm sorry you feel deceived. It was not our intent to deceive anyone. The feedback in the 5.3 beta was valuable to helping us make Logos 6 as stable as possible.

We originally intended for 5.3 to ship before Logos 6. The more we focused on Logos 6 the more the dates on 5.3 slipped. As we evaluated the options we decided it was best to put our focus into making Logos 6 and 5.2b the best they could be. We were trying to do the best for the most number of customers and I'm sorry you were caught in the middle. I value your feedback and will make sure we keep this in mind as we evaluate release dates in the future.

Ok, I will accept your comments at face value, particularly regarding intent to not deceive.

With that in mind, I would strongly urge the company to not engage people in beta programs that are not eventually delivered as stable releases. Also, communicating early and often would really be the key here. At such time as it looked like 5.3 was going to be pulled, something to that effect ought to have been communicated, at least privately - presumably setting updates to the beta channel notes results in a notation someplace?

As a bonus some proactive options for going to the release that ended up superseding what had been planned (in this case 6 instead of 5.3) would have eliminated the concerns entirely.

Thanks for taking the time to read and respond.

Posts 690
Jerry Bush | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 27 2014 7:24 PM

Todd White (Faithlife):

Anthony H:

The Vista issue is a valid point for some users. Not to mention the 64b with the new engine

Drew Hannay:

Anthony H:

If not, are those features resident in the default L6 engine that is free in February?

Yes

hmmm. Well then it would remove a little of the burn some might feel. It might have been beneficial for a Logos employee to state as much.Smile

Everything in 5.3 will be in the free Logos 6 engine in February.

Yes, but in the meantime, I will be running a piece of beta software.

Jerry

Win7 - - Intel Core i3, 530 @ 2 .93GHz - - 6GB RAM ATI Radeon HD Samsung 500GB SSD

Burning Bush Ministries

Posts 21
Paul Myers | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 27 2014 7:29 PM

I agree. I jumped into the beta release late in the game expecting a safe off ramp to a stable release as in past betas. (Yes, I read the warnings - Proverbs 30:2 applies to me.) But I too am stuck using beta software until the free engine. Very disappointing.  

Posts 18727
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 27 2014 7:29 PM

Todd White (Faithlife):

Anthony H:

hmmm. Well then it would remove a little of the burn some might feel. It might have been beneficial for a Logos employee to state as much.Smile

Everything in 5.3 will be in the free Logos 6 engine in February.

I'm not a 5.3 beta tester, but perhaps it would help make up for the disillusionment you've caused among them to let them all have the free Logos 6 engine now and not have to wait until February. The only reason you're having most people wait is not a technical issue, it's to encourage people to upgrade to a L6 Base Package. But the 5.3 beta tester have given you something of their time and effort and trust, and you've let them down. So I think you ought to make it up to them in this way. And let them in on the discount you're giving to L6 beta testers for base package upgrades.

Posts 5251
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 27 2014 8:05 PM

Todd White (Faithlife):
Everything in 5.3 will be in the free Logos 6 engine in February.

That is a pretty long way off to wait for a new release.

-dan

Posts 8066
LogosEmployee
Bradley Grainger (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 27 2014 10:21 PM

Thank you all for your feedback.

We will reevaluate the decision to stop 5.3 development and consider investing more development resources to bring 5.3 to RC.

Posts 1150
Anthony H | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 28 2014 6:14 AM

Todd White (Faithlife):

Anthony H:

The Vista issue is a valid point for some users. Not to mention the 64b with the new engine

Drew Hannay:

Anthony H:

If not, are those features resident in the default L6 engine that is free in February?

Yes

hmmm. Well then it would remove a little of the burn some might feel. It might have been beneficial for a Logos employee to state as much.Smile

Everything in 5.3 will be in the free Logos 6 engine in February.

Thanks for the clarity. :) I appreciate your response. Yes

Posts 1150
Anthony H | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 28 2014 6:18 AM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

Thank you all for your feedback.

We will reevaluate the decision to stop 5.3 development and consider investing more development resources to bring 5.3 to RC.

Thank you for looking into this, I know there is a lot on your plate right now and for everyone else at Logos/Faithlife. 

Posts 7
Bob Lozano | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 28 2014 7:27 AM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

Thank you all for your feedback.

We will reevaluate the decision to stop 5.3 development and consider investing more development resources to bring 5.3 to RC.

After the earlier discussion, decided to buy a cross-grade. I am generally willing to purchase technological / functionality improvements to support content licenses, understand the cost of ongoing development, etc. 

Having said that, for the other 5.3 beta folks I think a sounder resolution would be to simply offer them early access to the no-cost engine-only option. That would not divert dev resources at this point (with a better option available), simplify ongoing support, and avoid any concerns about 5.3 being stopped at a relatively late date (with no prior heads-up).

Anyway, just a thought. Thanks.

Posts 3938
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 28 2014 11:06 AM

Lets face it, most of us are early adopters.

As such, I wonder how many have absolutely no plan to upgrade to six before feb?

As soon as my salesman throws the switch I'll be downloading Portfolio... Suspect the majority will be like Bob Lozano, or myself.

L2 lvl4, L3 Scholars, L4 Scholars, L5 Platinum,  L6 Collectors. L7 Baptist Portfolio. L8 Baptist Platinum.

Posts 2764
Erwin Stull, Sr. | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 28 2014 11:10 AM

abondservant:

Lets face it, most of us are early adopters.

As such, I wonder how many have absolutely no plan to upgrade to six before feb?

As soon as my salesman throws the switch I'll be downloading Portfolio... Suspect the majority will be like Bob Lozano, or myself.

I have plans to upgrade yesterday, however, finances dictate another plan. Smile

Posts 3938
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 28 2014 11:12 AM

I can relate to that... My little church is sending me some extra money for PAM, and I'm going to have a little more the next two months so I should be able to pay down, or off entirely the Portfolio package by Christmas. Not something I had anticipated a few months ago.

L2 lvl4, L3 Scholars, L4 Scholars, L5 Platinum,  L6 Collectors. L7 Baptist Portfolio. L8 Baptist Platinum.

Posts 2764
Erwin Stull, Sr. | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 28 2014 11:26 AM

abondservant:

I can relate to that... My little church is sending me some extra money for PAM, and I'm going to have a little more the next two months so I should be able to pay down, or off entirely the Portfolio package by Christmas. Not something I had anticipated a few months ago.

That is a BLESSING. Big Smile

The congregation does appreciate their Pastor, although you may not always think so. Especially those Pastors, Ministers, Evangelists, etc. who are involved.

Posts 3938
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 28 2014 11:37 AM

Erwin Stull, Sr.:

abondservant:

I can relate to that... My little church is sending me some extra money for PAM, and I'm going to have a little more the next two months so I should be able to pay down, or off entirely the Portfolio package by Christmas. Not something I had anticipated a few months ago.

That is a BLESSING. Big Smile

The congregation does appreciate their Pastor, although you may not always think so. Especially those Pastors, Ministers, Evangelists, etc. who are involved.



An extra special blessing as well considering I am out of state and at seminary (Which they are paying for), and I'm only interim, and only then a few weeks this year (though much of last year)

L2 lvl4, L3 Scholars, L4 Scholars, L5 Platinum,  L6 Collectors. L7 Baptist Portfolio. L8 Baptist Platinum.

Posts 13368
Forum MVP
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 28 2014 11:45 AM

Bob Lozano:
Having said that, for the other 5.3 beta folks I think a sounder resolution would be to simply offer them early access to the no-cost engine-only option. That would not divert dev resources at this point (with a better option available), simplify ongoing support, and avoid any concerns about 5.3 being stopped at a relatively late date (with no prior heads-up).

I agree with this. I'm not affected, as I've bought L6, but I'd feel pretty ticked off if I hadn't.

Posts 145
Peter Lever | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 28 2014 12:07 PM

Two things are slightly broken with this beta release - the "Trust" Feature, and  the "World Class Customer Service" feature. To ditch paying customers half-way down the beta program and force them to pay to get out of the beta can be defended in letter, but not in spirit. 

Posts 623
Stephen Steele | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 28 2014 12:40 PM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

We will reevaluate the decision to stop 5.3 development and consider investing more development resources to bring 5.3 to RC.

Yes

Posts 508
Bob Deacon | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 28 2014 12:51 PM

I am another very unhappy former Logos user! I'll sell my library cheap! This is far from the first time this type of thing has happened. Sorry if this offends anyone but I am over Logos!

Bob Deacon

Dell Inspiron, Windows 10 Latest Update

Surface Pro 6

MacBook Air (2017) Catalina

Ipad Air 2 (ios 8.2.1)

Motorola G6 Play (android 8.3.1)

Posts 690
Jerry Bush | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 28 2014 12:54 PM

Peter Lever:

Two things are slightly broken with this beta release - the "Trust" Feature, and  the "World Class Customer Service" feature. To ditch paying customers half-way down the beta program and force them to pay to get out of the beta can be defended in letter, but not in spirit. 

Agreed.

Win7 - - Intel Core i3, 530 @ 2 .93GHz - - 6GB RAM ATI Radeon HD Samsung 500GB SSD

Burning Bush Ministries

Posts 3938
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 28 2014 12:56 PM

Bob - give it a night to make sure you're sure, but then send me a message on faithlife.

L2 lvl4, L3 Scholars, L4 Scholars, L5 Platinum,  L6 Collectors. L7 Baptist Portfolio. L8 Baptist Platinum.

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