Logos 6 Core Engine Update Delay

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This post has 26 Replies | 6 Followers

Posts 16
John Wells | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Oct 28 2014 6:46 AM

Can you explain why you cannot provide the basic update before Feb 3rd, other than to play on customer's impatience to obtain more sales?

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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 28 2014 6:59 AM

John Wells:

Can you explain why you cannot provide the basic update before Feb 3rd, other than to play on customer's impatience to obtain more sales?

I'm not a Logos/Faithlife employee, just a user. However, my understanding is that they just want to pay the bills first, before giving away the milk for free. Logos5 will work just fine until then. There's been a lot of time and money spent so far on developing Logos6 and all the new data sets (they're really good, BTW). Seems fair that they would prioritize recouping those expenses first.

Consider it an opportunity to exercise your patience 'muscles.' Think about how much more patient you'll be by Feb. 3. You might even be patient enough to wait until Feb. 4, just to prove you can do it. Wink

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

Posts 16
John Wells | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 28 2014 7:03 AM

One of my most frequent (and unanswered) prayers is "God, please grant me patience . . . right now!" Lightning

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David Taylor Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 28 2014 7:05 AM

John Wells:

One of my most frequent (and unanswered) prayers is "God, please grant me patience . . . right now!" Lightning

Yes

Teacher, Ministry Leader, Student, Author, Husband

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Rick | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 28 2014 7:26 AM

I would also guess that support calls would increase greatly if they did not phase the releases. This costs money and time. 

Peace  Smile

Romans 14:19 (NRSV)
19 Let us then pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding.

Posts 1281
toughski | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 28 2014 8:02 AM

John Wells:

Can you explain why you cannot provide the basic update before Feb 3rd, other than to play on customer's impatience to obtain more sales?

it's all in your perspective: most people did not expect it till November of next year, so getting it in February is like !!! 9 months early !!!

Posts 1355
Edwin Bowden | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 28 2014 8:11 AM

toughski:

John Wells:

Can you explain why you cannot provide the basic update before Feb 3rd, other than to play on customer's impatience to obtain more sales?

it's all in your perspective: most people did not expect it till November of next year, so getting it in February is like !!! 9 months early !!!

Yes

Posts 653
Alex Scott | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 28 2014 8:17 AM

John Wells:
One of my most frequent (and unanswered) prayers is "God, please grant me patience . . . right now!"

Patience isn't learned by God taking everything that makes you impatient away.

Longtime Logos user (more than $30,000 in purchases) - now a second class user because I won't pay them more every month or year.

Posts 1
Christopher Gillespie | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 28 2014 10:27 AM

In my opinion, this is poor practice. I have no desire to purchase an upgrade and will deal with Logos5 engine for the time being. Maybe its time to cut our losses and move to a platform whose software upgrades are value added and not heavily monetized.

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Fred Chapman | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 28 2014 10:37 AM

Christopher Gillespie:

In my opinion, this is poor practice. I have no desire to purchase an upgrade and will deal with Logos5 engine for the time being. Maybe its time to cut our losses and move to a platform whose software upgrades are value added and not heavily monetized.

Logos will give you the software free of charge starting February 3rd. 

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Bob Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 28 2014 10:43 AM

Christopher Gillespie:
a platform whose software upgrades are value added and not heavily monetized

Alas, it takes money to keep writing new code and creating new features. I don't think we're unique in wanting to monetize upgrades -- I've paid for quite a few over the last 20 years for Windows, Adobe products, Microsoft Office, etc.

And in the case of Logos 6, a lot of what's new is a hybrid of code-and-content, and we had to pay to create (or purchase) that content.

Of course if that new content is not valuable to you -- and it won't be to everyone -- there's no need to buy it, and we'll support Logos 5 for some time. And, just for the record, we have delivered many improvements to Logos 5 at no cost. You can see the history here: https://wiki.logos.com/Logos_5_Release_Notes

Logos 6 -- like all our 'major' releases -- is essentially a lot of new 'products' wrapped up in a big library. We really do deliver updates for free -- and over the years, with the free engine updates which trail around three months behind the big new release -- we probably deliver more consistent free value than most purchased software packages. It's just the new 'products' (new content, new resources, etc.) that we charge far. Because we don't have another way to fund it!

Posts 16
John Wells | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 28 2014 10:44 AM

Can't say that I am enamored with Logos' marketing strategy. Each version touts new cool features, which only are enabled by purchasing a $1,000 package. All features should work at all package levels. We should pay based on content desired, not a combination of content and features.

I understand Logos has a business to run, pay good developers good wages and make a little profit. I get that! I just don't appreciate the pricing structure.

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Gabe Martini (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 28 2014 10:49 AM

John Wells:

Can't say that I am enamored with Logos' marketing strategy. Each version touts new cool features, which only are enabled by purchasing a $1,000 package. All features should work at all package levels. We should pay based on content desired, not a combination of content and features.

I understand Logos has a business to run, pay good developers good wages and make a little profit. I get that! I just don't appreciate the pricing structure.

John, the great news is that if you only want the new datasets and features, we now provide Crossgrade products to deliver that new functionality. If you aren't interested in new books or resources with each major release, that's your best option.

If you only want some of the newest features, check out Core Crossgrade. If you want it all (what's included in Gold and up in all base package tracks), get Feature Crossgrade.

Hope this helps!

Product Department Manager
Faithlife

Posts 204
David Salazar | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 28 2014 10:54 AM

John Wells:

Can't say that I am enamored with Logos' marketing strategy. Each version touts new cool features, which only are enabled by purchasing a $1,000 package. All features should work at all package levels. We should pay based on content desired, not a combination of content and features.

I understand Logos has a business to run, pay good developers good wages and make a little profit. I get that! I just don't appreciate the pricing structure.

You can pay for just the crossgrades if you don't want all the resources. 

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LogosEmployee
Bob Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 28 2014 10:55 AM

John Wells:
We should pay based on content desired, not a combination of content and features.

I'm sorry that the feature/content distinction can be confusing. Most of the new 'features' are really tightly integrated with new content. If I told you someone had spent months of full-time work outlining the propositional structure of the New Testament in the Greek, and we were publishing it as a book, you'd probably expect to pay for it. But we're delivering that as a Visual Filter, which feels like a 'feature' and not a book. And it's awesome as a feature -- it works on the Greek and any modern Bible for which we have a reverse interlinear, so it's like a half-dozens books... but the 'feature' is really a complex mix of code (non-trivial!) and a massive amount of new editorial work.

And that's the same with much of what's new in Logos 6. Even Visual Copy, which seems like a 'code feature', is really just an interface to tens of thousands of dollars of licensed content, original editorial work, and commissioned and in-house graphic design. It's more content than code, we just don't wrap it up as 'a book of 10,000 photos'.

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 28 2014 10:56 AM

Gabe Martini:
John, the great news is that if you only want the new datasets and features, we now provide Crossgrade products to deliver that new functionality. If you aren't interested in new books or resources with each major release, that's your best option.

Let me add that the pricing for this data looks like a steal to me. For under $160 you get lots of new functionality. If you don't need the new resources that come in an upgrade package, buy the Essential Crossgrade. I think you'll believe that it was money well spent (plus you'll have 30 days to return it if you don't think so.)

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 1703
Robert M. Warren | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 28 2014 11:04 AM

If you have a base package, you might consider a small sidegrade.

I went from L5 Bronze/Ref Starter to L6 Reformed Starter for less than $40 (YMMV). For that I won't get but a small part of the new features, but I'll get the new interface before Feb. And unless you plan to apostasize and quit it altogether, nothing spent with these folks is wasted.

Win 10 Android 8.1 Fire OS 5

Posts 78
Kelvin Chiu | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 28 2014 4:21 PM

Is the Logos 6 core engine update free? When will the release date? 2/3/2015? Where did you find that information?

Thanks for your response.

Kelvin

Posts 107
Drew Hannay | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 28 2014 4:48 PM

Kelvin Chiu:

Is the Logos 6 core engine update free?

Yes

Kelvin Chiu:

When will the release date? 2/3/2015? 

Yes

Kelvin Chiu:

Where did you find that information?

See the first post in this thread: https://community.logos.com/forums/p/92878/644850.aspx 

Posts 2467
Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 28 2014 4:57 PM

Calling some of the new features "datasets" is a good move, because that is precisely what they are: new content.

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