Upgrade Logos: v5 > v6 ...plus... Upgrade Library: Silver>Platinum

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This post has 17 Replies | 1 Follower

Posts 40
David Geipel | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Oct 28 2014 8:10 AM

I took the plunge the minute version 6 appeared to hit yesterday morning 10/27. I called and got my upgrade (purchased 33 days ago) and had the Silver library. I was feeling bold and decided to also upgrade to Platinum.

Background: Macbook Air 2011, 1.8 GHz Intel Core i7 4GB Ram and 256 SSD HD.
OSX 10.10 Yosemite... So a decent machine ready to handle the next update.

It took me downloading the final v5 update... applied it, restarted then got version 6 within another 1-2 downloads and an hour or so. That was yesterday around noon (when the homepage was having problems).

Since then, it's been downloading the library to Logos... and it's driving me crazy. I've restarted about a dozen times... applying new titles, synchronizing... downloading... repeat.

Last night, I left my machine on - preventing HD from going to sleep trying to get a final 4GB updated. This morning I got to 2GB... then around 11am today, I am under 1GB (700MB) and it's still cranking.

What is really bad is that my fans have been humming along for no real reason. The Indexing is over 150% CPU and energy, forget about it. Drains my battery in an hour or so. BAD.

I was told by support it may be the Apple wifi issue from Mavericks days... I don't buy it. If that's the case, then Logos should have split up the download packages for Mac users... OR looked at a better method to categorize the library updates as I am sure they have a ton of people doing what I did with v6.

Oh, and I've also had to kill the LogosCEF process a half dozen times as it goes unresponsive. Strange.

SO I am running the logging tool now to show that something is wrong. I suspect no one tested my corner case - upgrade to 64bit, new version, new library... and if they did, they obviously didn't optimize download servers / instances in the cloud. Because this is pathetic. There really needs to be a better install / upgrade path.

Any suggestions?

Thanks!

Dave

Only sharing so others will have a better experience. Appreciate all the hardwork and effort going into this Team Logos!

Posts 40
David Geipel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 28 2014 10:18 AM

Two hours after posting this message, my 700mb files are in my library. Total count is now 1524 resources. Says it needs to index - BUT nothing shows me it's indexing. No spinning wheel or progress bar. Yet my fans are a blazing still. CPU for Indexer is 140-160%... so it appears to be indexing based on my technical digging but the application says nothing!Oh, since I did just upgrade to version 6, I found it funny that the marketing team's form of communication doesn't know I already did such - because it gave me a popup on the new TODAY screen.

Just to share that it seems Logos doesn't know who I am by it's pop-up message:

I did log the last two hours - closed the program once cause it appeared hung again and a second time that completed the downloads. Where do I send these logs? Hoping it would help an engineer dig to see what's going on.

Thanks!

Dave

Posts 40
David Geipel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 28 2014 10:23 AM

I just spoke too soon. Another round of files downloading... I think this is the 4th major download. This time it's 629.2MB. Lovely. Hit snooze and wake me up when it's done.

Maybe I will have a working program next week... At this rate, my computer may just die. It can't be good for the CPU and fans. Come on Team Logos.

Dave

Posts 824
GregW | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 28 2014 10:24 AM

David Geipel:

 Says it needs to index - BUT nothing shows me it's indexing. No spinning wheel or progress bar. Yet my fans are a blazing still. 

If it's indexing on a Mac you should see a small blue Logos logo on the Menu bar, and if you hover the cursor over this or click on it, it will show you how far through the indexing process it is. 


Running Logos 6 Platinum and Logos Now on Surface Pro 4, 8 GB RAM, 256GB SSD, i5

Posts 40
David Geipel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 28 2014 10:37 AM

Thanks GregW. I do see that after closing - again - and reopening. Here's the message.

However, within a minute, it closed the yellow bar and the top message just showed it was downloading - again.

Only good news is that the last time it started at 0% and I left it there for 10 mins... nothing. Closed and reopened and it's already at 1%. Sorry, that's the only good news I have to share. Otherwise, I've found if I close the indexing process (which is still running - again - in the background sucking up resources during the download) my computer is able to breath a little better.

I often take on things bigger than I should, but this is not good. I am convinced having a software background that I am a corner case of a few updates that have caused this perfect storm. It's just sad because I know the Logos team would love everyone to upgrade and then upsell them into a newer package. So far, I wish I never upgraded or updated. Not happy about my machines performance. Seems like it's kiiling it softly.... :)

Blessings brother.

Dave

BTW - they say they use AWS for their cloud storage. I would be asking for some major $$$ help if it's a cloud issue.

Posts 824
GregW | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 28 2014 10:53 AM

David Geipel:

Thanks GregW. I do see that after closing - again - and reopening. Here's the message.

However, within a minute, it closed the yellow bar and the top message just showed it was downloading - again.

Only good news is that the last time it started at 0% and I left it there for 10 mins... nothing. Closed and reopened and it's already at 1%. Sorry, that's the only good news I have to share. Otherwise, I've found if I close the indexing process (which is still running - again - in the background sucking up resources during the download) my computer is able to breath a little better.

I often take on things bigger than I should, but this is not good. I am convinced having a software background that I am a corner case of a few updates that have caused this perfect storm. It's just sad because I know the Logos team would love everyone to upgrade and then upsell them into a newer package. So far, I wish I never upgraded or updated. Not happy about my machines performance. Seems like it's kiiling it softly.... :)

Blessings brother.

Dave

BTW - they say they use AWS for their cloud storage. I would be asking for some major $$$ help if it's a cloud issue.

I'm no expert and you probably need help from someone more experienced than I am, but the first thing they will do is ask you to post your logs, so it might be worth doing that. That way, some of the Forum MVPs might be able to give you a fix. One thing I did notice is that it seems to be trying to download and index at the same time, which I've never seen. 


Running Logos 6 Platinum and Logos Now on Surface Pro 4, 8 GB RAM, 256GB SSD, i5

Posts 40
David Geipel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 28 2014 10:56 AM

GOOD NEWS.

After all my indexing woes... I found a way to pause the indexing. Cancelled the download and the triangle icon then showed it WAS indexing. The message changed after I stopped the download and it showed I could click to stop the indexing. So I stopped it... and went to do the next download.

My issue with download speeds seems to be that OLD wifi issue with Mavericks that support mentioned. I still find it hard to believe this couldn't be addressed differently within Logos - especially since many may be using a Macbook Air (no ethernet connections). Well, not without adapters. I have an old USB option I use at my home office which I moved to and bam, speeds picked right up to what should be expected. SAD because in v6, programmers should have coded something to warn Mac users. You know they have special messaging capabilities because of the pop-up I got earlier :)

So my downloads are flying now - thank you Lord. And I mean that - I am grateful... and for the Support team for sharing this link:
https://www.logos.com/support/logos5/mac/mavericksFAQ

Glad I poked around looking for what you told me GregW - to pause the index WHILE the downloads are happening. Of course, I am prepared for an overnight indexing extravaganza. Happy happy, joy joy.

Dave

Posts 40
David Geipel | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 29 2014 6:25 AM

FINALLY. The longest update I've ever done. It's over. DONE. FINISHED... I hope.

Conclusion:

1) If you have a Macbook Air and cannot jump on an ethernet connection, tough beans. It will be the most frustrating download experience - ever. Somehow I don't remember going through the slow pain the first time - 35 days ago. You too may just pull your hair out doing what I just did (upgrade to v6 + library). I suggest upgrading software... then in a few days, updating library. That comment may impact the sales team, but seriously, there is a problem under the hood.

2) Indexing your new library is out of control. The new version doesn't seem to be any better or efficient with this process.

EXAMPLE: It took me 3-4 hours to get to 97% indexed... then... I hit pause to watch a video series for 30 minutes. I thought if you paused and closed the program, when it restarted it would know to resume - at 97%... NOPE. Logos v6 seems rather old school in the indexing department. Trust me, I understand there is a ton of material to index. I went through it the first time with v5 Silver. So upgrading to Platinum with v^ was like starting from square one. Unlike my Mac that indexes my computer when I reset the cache and other optimizations, Logos doesn't pause. It quits if you PAUSE + EXIT the program. Engineers - there is a better way to save the process and resume. Please help newbies in the future the pain I've experienced.

3) This entire process could have been helped by better planning. Some include Software Prompts or Pop-Ups, Sales Team questioning & reminding when updating asking what computer are you using - oh wait, they should know it based on the profile data they have - hmmmm - so even an email reminder with a link to the Mavericks issue they never resolved or worked around for the new version. 

a) Logos knows I am on a Macbook... and specifically an Air (no ethernet slot). A simple prompt about the Mavericks issue would have been nice).

b) The moment I bought v6, it should have downloaded v6, installed it and then download the new library. Mine started indexing... UGH. Why? It should have known it's downloading a new stack of resources within a few minutes of upgrading to v6. If the index changed (that's why it reindexed I believe), then I can see why it wants to start that process immediately - but it could and should have been stopped when the new library downloads started. In my situation, I had new material being downloaded. So why index my Silver library if it needs to start over with Platinum?

c) Indexing still takes too long. I understand it's volumes of data. Yet the db structure or process Logos is using seems old. My computer was on FIRE for almost 24 hours straight indexing over and over again. That's not right. My computer was subjective to abuse by Logos. Period.

4) I am excited the program is complete. I just lost the thrill one has when getting something new. I am wiped out from all the troubleshooting I had to do to get my new V6P running.

***The upgrade process stole my excitement***

Hope my issues are reviewed by Tier 2-9 tech support... My commentary is rather raw because you need to understand this was the most unpleasant upgrade I've had in 10 years (the last being a Windows OS upgrade on an old PC needing new drivers not in the OS package - remember those days?). So while I moved to Mac to reduce those issues, this one was a doozy.

Need my Sabbath :)

Regards,

David

Posts 3938
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 29 2014 6:39 AM

1. download times were brutal for everyone pc/mac. My 2gb download on monday took 16 hours - some said it was due to a woefully overtaxed licensing server rather than aws. However, who knows? It may well have been amazons cloud that was the sticking point. Someone else said there were lots of dropped packets which very well could be amazon. It could have been a combo of both struggling under the burden of 2,000,000 users! Yesterdays downloads (8gb ish) were not so bad on my pc, but my laptop (also a pc) is still downloading. Hoping misery loves company and knowing your not alone makes you feel better.

2. I can't speak to mac indexing, that went just fine on my desktop. Indexing and downloading at the same time doesn't happen on a PC that I have ever seen. you may have had something funky going on.

3. everything can't be taken into account. They can only do so much before they hit the wall, that is to say their limitations in terms of time and manpower. I can see where this would make for an unpleasant experience for some, I suspect their MB Air user pool is relatively small by %. I've been in the % that wasn't taken care of before, and didn't enjoy it. But such is life. Or they may have assumed their MBA userbase was more educated on the topic that proved to be the case.

4. glad you got it done :) you will enjoy it. I am enjoying mine. finally. My normal salesman was working a few angles to help me (extremely tight budget here) and as a result, even though I had settled on what package I wanted, it still took 32 hours or so for my order to be actually put through. I am not complaining. The result is something I am happy with even if the process was arduous at times.

My worst experience lately was installing an old version of Logos 2, on an old version of windows in a virtual machine and trying to make the two talk together over the network. took a day and a half. But I got a few cool new items that were worth it. So again not really complaining, because what I got, was ultimately worth it. Something I hope you will find to be true of Logos 6 - as I have.

L2 lvl4, L3 Scholars, L4 Scholars, L5 Platinum,  L6 Collectors. L7 Baptist Portfolio. L8 Baptist Platinum.

Posts 40
David Geipel | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 29 2014 10:23 AM

Thanks Abondservant. I am loving the fresher layout and new features. Just wish there was a better way to do the update. Their secure wifi connection issue should be addressed for other Mac users. Overall, most of my poor experiences could have been avoided in many regards (as I suggested). Hoping, if for nothing else, that my improvement suggestions are considered in the adoption of their new platform. While Logos V6 was about the "engine" (marketing play in effect) - the next iteration, Logos V7, should be perfection :)

Keep pressing in to Him.

Dave

Posts 40
David Geipel | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 31 2014 10:44 AM

UPDATE: Four days into Logos 6. Still not able to use, enjoy b/c of updates & reindexing. Annoying!

I LOVE some of the new features. Well done Logos.

However, I still think you've got issues that should have been addressed. Especially with indexing. Over the past three days (yes, it took over 24 hours to get my computer updated and upgraded), it's taking 2 hours to reindex - again and again and again. This is horrible. Why do I want to have my computer spend resources like this for a process that seems poorly written. I expected the new version would have fixed this for us Mac users. Especially since you went 64-bit.

The way Logos handles has me finally regretting upgrading to a new library (Platinum). I can hear others now - about the depth of study and tools unavailable anywhere else... but as a user, I don't have anything good to say right now. Ever since update / upgrade, I've had to go back online to my former tools and sites for research b/c Logos isn't available.

This entire process is now likened to a kitchen remodel - at least with a kitchen remodel, I know what to expect. Can't use the kitchen for a few months... change the way you eat and types of food you prepare b/c the kitchen is being worked on...

Your support team said to post to this forum... but no one from Logos has acknowledge anything I've shared. I appreciate the comradery from the others here and their encouragement. They may have accepted this as the way it is... but I can't. Not after all those pretty YouTube videos show cool animations and new features that come from an improved engine. I don't think anyone did anything with the engine and its performance. It is in several need of a tuneup - quickly. I sure hope you bring on some staff who know how to optimize software processes. Because this is disgraceful - period. A bad testimony as a company. I expected more. And others should too.


Logos should just be called Indexer.

And yes, I am really upset that everytime I open my new Logos V6 software, it takes 2-3 restarts and then 1-2 hours each time to reindex.

Snooooooze. Please WAKE ME UP when you get your act together, please :)

Dave

Posts 824
GregW | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 31 2014 2:37 PM

David Geipel:

UPDATE: Four days into Logos 6. Still not able to use, enjoy b/c of updates & reindexing. Annoying!

If it is consistently reindexing like this something is wrong - that is certainly not what happens with me on L6 Platinum on a Macbook Pro. Personally I'd post in the L6 forum with the word "BUG:" in the title and link to the post above, preferably with some logs attached. The dev at Logos are certainly responding to that type of post, and some of the MVPs who know how to read the logs are likely to be able to suggest something as well.

I really hope you manage to get this sorted out.  


Running Logos 6 Platinum and Logos Now on Surface Pro 4, 8 GB RAM, 256GB SSD, i5

Posts 8601
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 31 2014 2:40 PM

GregW:
and some of the MVPs who know how to read the logs are likely to be able to suggest something as well.

And with that said David, may we see some logs here? 

Please enable Logging (http://wiki.logos.com/Diagnostic_Logging ) and upload them but do not restart Logos until you've moved or uploaded your logs. (Logos rewrites logs when it starts). 

Truth Is Still Truth Even if You Don't Believe It

Check the Wiki

Warning: Sarcasm is my love language. I may inadvertently express my love to you.

Posts 40
David Geipel | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 31 2014 3:05 PM

Thanks Gregw - that was fast, thx TCBlack. I've included my logs from installation and indexing I encountered the first two days. Hope it saved it properly. During the next download and indexing, I will track and upload that file. 

An additional comment.

Today, it threw an error the last time around after a few program failed and I rebooted my machine... I had 5GB of storage available (I know, it's only a 256 SSD) and when it indexed today after updating 5-6 items updated during a download earlier, I watched it go from 4.96 to 1.90 and it was successful. Before the reboot, the indexing failed around 68% then said I needed at least 1GB available - which I did... around 2.5 at that time. If it really needs 5GB to index then redump the unused space back to my HD, it should NOT start the index and throw the warning upfront. The program should also know I have a larger library than a basic install which may only need 1GB. 5482.LogosLogs.dgeipel.20141029-035226.zip

8512.LogosLogs.dgeipel.20141028-130717.zip

4786.LogosLogs.dgeipel.20141028-111356.zip

4812.LogosLogs.dgeipel.20141028-105517.zip

Posts 25096
Forum MVP
Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 1 2014 2:30 AM

David Geipel:
I've included my logs from installation and indexing I encountered the first two days.

They reveal an all-too-familiar pattern, and one that Faithlife have steadfastly refused to correct i.e. start indexing, cancel it for a download, re-start indexing, cancel for another download, etc. I recommend you change Automatically Download Updates to NO in Program Settings.

David Geipel:
Today, it threw an error the last time around after a few program failed and I rebooted my machine... I had 5GB of storage available (I know, it's only a 256 SSD)

You need at least 20% free space for efficiency and long-life of an SSD  i.e. 50 GB, and you'll stay clear of Logos' storage space quirks. 25 GB should keep you out of trouble but it will degrade performance of the SSD.

Dave
===

Windows 10 & Android 8

Posts 40
David Geipel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 1 2014 6:59 AM

Thanks @Dave Hootan. You're like a legend around here - hahaha. Well, I've actually read some posts of yours when I first got up and running last month and recall seeing you from last year when I first considered going with Logos V5. My needs changed and it became a necessity which is great.

Anyways, I changed the download settings. Good call. I suggested earlier they need to consider a simple think like order... Make sure all downloads are complete THEN index. I know, seems to simple to us but it never made the important list.

I will have to seriously clean my computer. Too much worship music over here.

One question Dave (if you know): Are we able to run Logos on a Mac from a Memory Stick w/ USB3? Haven't researched it but if they continue to abuse (yes, I believe it's abuse how they beat up my drive with this process - in my case) I may move in that direction. LMK if you're aware of that second option. Thanks for your help brother.

Dave

Posts 25096
Forum MVP
Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 1 2014 11:20 PM

David Geipel:
Are we able to run Logos on a Mac from a Memory Stick w/ USB3?

I think so. See https://wiki.logos.com/Quick_Installation_onto_Multiple_Macs .

Dave
===

Windows 10 & Android 8

Posts 8076
LogosEmployee

David Geipel:
Oh, and I've also had to kill the LogosCEF process a half dozen times as it goes unresponsive.

Don't do that. See: https://community.logos.com/forums/p/94021/653404.aspx#653404 

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