Maps and other features

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Pastor Michael Huffman | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Oct 31 2014 9:12 AM

I downloaded Logos 6 last evening and began to use it just a little when I discovered one feature that I am not to thrilled about. As an expository preacher, I do a great deal of work in grammatical, historical, cultural and geographical areas. Now, Logos 6 is suppose to make bible study faster, but it has not it has made it slower.

 

Here is how: I notice when I brought up my atlas and ran the exact same search that the video on the web site ran (Jesus and the Samaritan woman in John 4) and it told me that maps are not available while working off line. And so my maps are going to load in accordance with the speed of my internet connection now? I dont like that feature and I dont remember Logos ever having that feature before. I have always been able to ran any map I want based on my collection without having to be "online". So it slows up the building of the map, and what other features are required to be "online" before you can use them (besides the visual copy).

 

I have always kept my internet off for a couple of reasons: 1) it makes the software run faster for it to be off because it is not syunchronizing everytime I do something on my screen, 2) because with all the updates coming out, historically, I have read some nightmares with people who have downloaded an update and it crashed their system or other problems. So I have always waited and watched the forum to make sure that the problem got fixed before I downloaded the update. Now, if I have to use the map and other feature (which, by the way, doesnt say on any of the videos that internet has to be "on") I run the risk of Logos going to get a defected update.

 

These are just concerns and I am not sure why Logos felt like they had to change that in Logos 6. Now, if I am missing something and there is a way around that, great! But I have used the maps feature for a long time and have never had to be online.

 

I am hoping that many other people will complain about that feature so that Logso will go back, because as I said that really slows down bible study instead of speeding it up.

Pastor Michael Huffman, Th.A Th.B Th.M

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Dylan Rondeau | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 31 2014 9:22 AM

The Atlas maps are separate from the previously existing maps; you haven't lost those. You can now run a Media Search and specify "Maps" in the media type, to see all the maps in your Library collection. In addition, the maps that were in Bible Facts are now available as a standalone resource "Biblical Places Maps", which can be found in your Library.

The Atlas maps are new, and are the only ones which require an internet connection. This is because they are very, very large (terabytes!) and will eventually - not all are currently completed - map all of our outline of Biblical stories, ~300 maps in total.

Dylan Rondeau, Software Tester

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Posts 10126
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 31 2014 9:36 AM

Terabytes divided by 300, sounds like this is a feature I can't afford net-wise.  I can see why the maps don't stick around on ones PC too long.


Posts 101
Dan Langston | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 31 2014 9:36 AM

Which is why it should be communicated somewhere other than the forums. The label:  "ATLAS" infers the place where all the maps will be.  I am grateful I finally saw a post "Disappointed with Maps in Logos 6" where I learned the cryptic way to get to the maps...."Oh.......there in their own resource!" We shouldn't have to guess where they are when there is a new and improved tool labeled "Atlas".  Logos 6 is great, but the videos about the atlas suggest that is all there is.  I thought that for about a day and a half until I read the post. 

Posts 3004
David Taylor Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 31 2014 10:14 AM

Dan Langston:

Which is why it should be communicated somewhere other than the forums. The label:  "ATLAS" infers the place where all the maps will be.  I am grateful I finally saw a post "Disappointed with Maps in Logos 6" where I learned the cryptic way to get to the maps...."Oh.......there in their own resource!" We shouldn't have to guess where they are when there is a new and improved tool labeled "Atlas".  Logos 6 is great, but the videos about the atlas suggest that is all there is.  I thought that for about a day and a half until I read the post. 

I can see where the confusion would come in.  However, I am glad you were able to get an answer from the community.  I think with a new launch we need to be careful to make sure we are extending grace to our brothers and sisters at Faithlife.  There are a lot of moving parts and they work diligently for us to make sure they get them right.

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Sean Boisen | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 31 2014 10:35 AM

Pastor Michael Huffman:

I have always kept my internet off for a couple of reasons: 1) it makes the software run faster for it to be off because it is not syunchronizing everytime I do something on my screen, 2) because with all the updates coming out, historically, I have read some nightmares with people who have downloaded an update and it crashed their system or other problems. So I have always waited and watched the forum to make sure that the problem got fixed before I downloaded the update. Now, if I have to use the map and other feature (which, by the way, doesnt say on any of the videos that internet has to be "on") I run the risk of Logos going to get a defected update.

Bob explains further here why some features are only available online. Practically speaking, there's no other way to deliver the Atlas maps: there's simply too much data. Furthermore, you don't need it all at once: you only need the part you're looking at. We've had to do quite a bit of engineering (like Google and Bing maps) to provide the zooming, interactive experience while ensuring performance is reasonable for most people.

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Sean Boisen | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 31 2014 10:40 AM

Dan Langston:

Which is why it should be communicated somewhere other than the forums. The label:  "ATLAS" infers the place where all the maps will be.  I am grateful I finally saw a post "Disappointed with Maps in Logos 6" where I learned the cryptic way to get to the maps...."Oh.......there in their own resource!" We shouldn't have to guess where they are when there is a new and improved tool labeled "Atlas".  Logos 6 is great, but the videos about the atlas suggest that is all there is.  I thought that for about a day and a half until I read the post. 

Dan: I'm sorry you had problems finding things. There are now two kinds of maps, so they're in different places:

  • the maps from Logos 5 are now in their own resource, Biblical Places Maps. That also means there's a table of contents for these now.
  • the new-style zoomable maps are in the new Atlas feature, which allows you to search by reference, place, person, and event.

Both maps (and others) are searchable with Media Search: Bradley describes that here.

Posts 8893
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 31 2014 11:02 AM

Pastor Michael Huffman:
I have always kept my internet off for a couple of reasons: (...) 2) because with all the updates coming out, historically, I have read some nightmares with people who have downloaded an update and it crashed their system or other problems. So I have always waited and watched the forum to make sure that the problem got fixed before I downloaded the update.

Just wanted to clear this up:

You don't need to have internet off to prevent updates. Just go to Program Settings and set Automatic Updates to No. That will alert you when an update is available, but it won't start until you manually authorise it.

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Posts 101
Dan Langston | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 31 2014 9:28 PM

Thanks Sean. It's also helpful to understand the mammoth size of the zoomable map project that you guys are undertaking.  It makes sense that we wouldn't want to download it.  I'll just adjust my terminology to understand "Atlas" is the zoomable online maps, and Maps are in "Biblical places maps" Thank you for being patient and helpful with our learning curve on the user side.

Posts 612
John Brumett | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 3 2014 5:27 AM

Sean Boisen:
the maps from Logos 5 are now in their own resource, Biblical Places Maps. That also means there's a table of contents for these now

Will the other maps be zoomable and full screen such as the ESV Bible Maps and will they be located in Atlas or Biblical Place Maps?  In Logos 5 all maps were zoomable. 

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Sean Boisen | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 3 2014 11:34 PM

John Brumett:

Sean Boisen:
the maps from Logos 5 are now in their own resource, Biblical Places Maps. That also means there's a table of contents for these now

Will the other maps be zoomable and full screen such as the ESV Bible Maps and will they be located in Atlas or Biblical Place Maps?  In Logos 5 all maps were zoomable. 

The Logos 5 maps can be enlarged, but they're not actually zoomable. When you enlarge them, the letters, line work, and symbols all simply get bigger. For the Atlas maps, on the other hand, when you zoom in, the letters and symbols are resized appropriately, and additional cities and details are shown.

Posts 612
John Brumett | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 4 2014 7:30 AM

Sean:  Is there any possiblility to place all other maps in Biblical Place Maps so you can present them full screen and you can pan and zoom.  We had this ability in Logos 5.  Please fix this.  I am a Pastor and I use this feature as I present this to my congregation.  

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Sean Boisen | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 4 2014 2:09 PM

John Brumett:

Sean:  Is there any possiblility to place all other maps in Biblical Place Maps so you can present them full screen and you can pan and zoom.  We had this ability in Logos 5.  Please fix this.  I am a Pastor and I use this feature as I present this to my congregation.  

John, I'm confused. The maps in the Biblical Places Maps resource behave exactly the same as they did in Logos 5. The only difference is that previously they were listed as thumbnails at the bottom of Bible Facts, and now they're available in their own resources.

  • Ctrl+F11 floats the panel, and then you can make it the size of your entire screen
  • F11 starts Reading View, which hides the window chrome (you may also want to uncheck Show Table of Contents to maximize screen space)
  • Scrolling with the mouse wheel, or Ctrl-+, enlarges the map (again, this isn't real zooming: the Atlas maps are the first time we've done that)
  • Holding the mouse button down and moving the mouse pans the map

Posts 612
John Brumett | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 5 2014 6:47 AM

Sean, Keep in mind my use of the maps for presentation purposes. I  am using a mouse with a center scroll wheel.  For example if I am teaching on the Journeys of Paul I can zoom directly in  the city take my mouse left click and hold so a can pan on the next city without resizing the screen.   I can easily zoom out with my center scroll wheel. I can click on another map or picture without going out of the program.  

Now concerning opening the maps in their own resource.  I loose the ability to zoom with my mouse though I can use a keyboard.  My center scroll wheel functions differently in that window. Using a keyboard will zoom the whole map to the center of the screen but I can't zoom in on a specific city and pan to the next city.

As a Pastor who uses the maps to present to a congregation Biblical Events I would like the other maps to open in Biblical Places with the drag and zoom ability available there now.  

I also won't have to search for the maps in other places.  This was the advantage of having all maps down at the bottom of the screen and having the right scroll capability to go quickly through all the maps. If Factbook only the first 5 to 10 (depending on the size of the screen) show.  I have to search Media for other maps.     

    

Posts 3578
steve clark | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 5 2014 8:41 AM

Just got L6 yesterday, so my skills may be in question.

But if you use Factbook, you can get to the Biblical Places by clicking on any of the maps.

 

EDIT2:  ahh, i see your (our) problem. L6 doesn't show all the maps in BP that L5 showed (e.g. ESVSB maps). Below is from L5 Factbook. Thus we cannot get to them in L6's BP or Factbook. And we cannot zoom in on them in the ESVSB.
This is a step backwards. (guess i better read the whole thread again more slowly Surprise)  
[i have L4 & L5 & L6 running in different window's user accounts, so i can go back & forth between the three versions]

Edit3:  even L4 provided this

 

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Sean Boisen | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 5 2014 11:53 AM

John, i think i understand better now too. It should be possible to enlarge maps (and other images): I believe that's just a bug, and I've filed a case for it.

Our plan for Atlas, however, is to list only the new-style, truly zoomable maps (not just those you can enlarge). So to find other (static) maps in your library, Media Search with type Maps will be your best bet, for example logos4:Search;kind=Media;q=$3CPlace_Cana$3E;match=stem to search <Place Cana>.

(This search doesn't currently return any Atlas results, which i'm also reporting as a bug.)

Posts 3578
steve clark | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 6 2014 6:29 PM

For those who would like to view your ESV study Bible maps and others while Faithlife fixes Biblical Places, please take a look at an app that i build to fill the gap.

It is described in this post: New Tool: Clipboard Image Viewer

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Posts 124
GeoPappas | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 9 2014 11:30 AM

Dylan Rondeau:
The Atlas maps are new, and are the only ones which require an internet connection. This is because they are very, very large (terabytes!) and will eventually - not all are currently completed - map all of our outline of Biblical stories, ~300 maps in total.

Sorry, but that doesn't make sense to me.  A terabyte is a very large amount of space.  I have a mid-level 18 MP digital camera and I can literally fit between 100,000 and 200,000 photos in a terabyte!  In addition, an illustration takes up a LOT less space than a digital photo (since they have less variation at the pixel level and can be compressed much more).

How can 300 illustrative maps take up more room than 100,000 - 200,000 digital photos?

Posts 3809
spitzerpl | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 9 2014 5:00 PM

GeoPappas:

Dylan Rondeau:
The Atlas maps are new, and are the only ones which require an internet connection. This is because they are very, very large (terabytes!) and will eventually - not all are currently completed - map all of our outline of Biblical stories, ~300 maps in total.

Sorry, but that doesn't make sense to me.  A terabyte is a very large amount of space.  I have a mid-level 18 MP digital camera and I can literally fit between 100,000 and 200,000 photos in a terabyte!  In addition, an illustration takes up a LOT less space than a digital photo (since they have less variation at the pixel level and can be compressed much more).

How can 300 illustrative maps take up more room than 100,000 - 200,000 digital photos?

the way I remember it described its not 300 illustrated maps. There are 8 zoom levels for the maps. Each zoom level is made up of multiple "pictures". The first zoom level is one picture. when you get to the second zoom level four picturns. The next zoom level requires four maps to cover the same territory as one tile from the previous level, thus 16 pictures total. By the time you get to the closest zoom level you need a lot of pictures to cover the territory.

Posts 149
Robert Dean, Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 9 2014 6:04 AM

I concur with John Brumett. The new Atas feature and Biblical Places resource may (I'm being gracious here) have value for personal Bible Study, but the developers have lost sight of the fact that many pastors and Bible teachers use the Logos maps in presentations to instruct our students and congregants. Thus we need features like those in L5 which give us a large list of all the relevant maps in our Library, and enlargeable thumbnails so we can quickly scan the options to select the image which best suits our pedagogical needs. The current Biblical Place resource is too cumbersome because we have to actually open each map to see if it contains the information we desire (which may not actually be related to the topic of the map itself).

Further, from looking at the screenshot examples, I realize that my Factbook only gives me 2-3 maps, and  doesn't have even the limited number of maps showing in these screenshots.

It's always disheartening when end users get an update which "fixes" a developer-perceived problem, but actually renders the program less effective.

I appreciate how Logos is usually pretty responsive to these kinds of feedback.

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