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Trey Selman | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Jan 11 2010 11:44 AM | Locked

When hovering over (or click on) a link to a location in the TDNT, the resource that is shown is not the TDNT. It is the highest prioritized Greek resource. For resource links (hover) to the TDNTA the resource (TDNTA) is correctly shown.

Also, when there is a Strong's number link then the highest prioritized Greek resource with this index is shown. I assume this is by design and should not be showing the ESL?

For examples look at Greek words in the ESL or the DBL Greek which have these types of links.

Am I missing a setting or something else so that the TDNT will show and be the destination for its links?

Sometimes I think that I would prefer the ability to specifically set data-types so that I could have better control over these types of links.

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 11 2010 12:23 PM | Locked

You need to do some advanced prioritization in your lexicons.

See the example below:

Mark Barnes has a helpful video on this. You can see a list of his videos on the wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Logos_4_Video_Tutorials

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 11 2010 2:34 PM | Locked

The Prioritization process is a compromise. To fix it for your specific case, assuming the highest prioritized Greek resource is DBL Greek you might have a List that looks like:

  • DBL Greek
  • Louw_Nida
  • TDNT
  • ESL

References for Greek Strong's & TDNT# will come from DBL Greek, whilst LN# will come from Louw-Nida.

If you want to stop DBL Greek from "stealing" these data types, then restrict it to Greek

  • DBL Greek ==> Greek limited
  • Louw_Nida
  • TDNT
  • ESL

References for Greek Strong's & TDNT# will now come from TDNT!

So you may try the following:-

  • DBL Greek ==> Greek limited
  • Louw_Nida
  • ESL
  • TDNT

References for Greek Strong's & probably Hebrew Strong's will now come from ESL. Note that I didn't restrict TDNT, because I still want it for Greek headwords.

Don't promote ESL above DBL Greek as it will "steal" Greek headwords from DBL  - then you have to go and restrict ESL with another set of side-effects!

Dave
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Posts 179
Trey Selman | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 11 2010 2:44 PM | Locked

Thanks Mark,

i tried what you said and I could not get it to work.

If I open the DBL Greek and I hover over the TDNT 1.452 I do not get the data from the TDNT I get the data from the highest prioritized Greek Resource. Same thing with the str ####.  The LN numbers work properly  but the TDNT does not. I could understand the str ### being different but not the TDNT. In the ESL the TDNTA works but the TDNT does not.

I also tried to watch the video on advanced prioritization but it is linked to a video on nested collections.

Posts 179
Trey Selman | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 11 2010 2:53 PM | Locked

Thanks Dave

I am getting it now.

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 11 2010 2:56 PM | Locked

It works for me with TDNT in the DBL but I have DBL prioritized below TDNT which is probably what you need to do. That alone might fix the problem.

From ESL it also works for me for both TDNT and TDNTA. However the Strong's fix doesn't work for some reason. It brings up the WSNTDICT which I don't even have prioritized.

 

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Bridgeport, CT USA

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Jeremy | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 11 2010 2:59 PM | Locked

Mark A. Smith:

You need to do some advanced prioritization in your lexicons.

See the example below:

Mark Barnes has a helpful video on this. You can see a list of his videos on the wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Logos_4_Video_Tutorials

Is this only a function in the new beta?

 

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 11 2010 3:02 PM | Locked

No. Right click on the prioritized resource in the Prioritize pane and choose Set Prioritization Limits.

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 11 2010 3:03 PM | Locked

Trey Selman:
I also tried to watch the video on advanced prioritization but it is linked to a video on nested collections.

So I see. I watched it before it was moved to its new hosting site. I will alert Mark to this.

EDIT: Here's the site for the right video: http://www.4-14.org.uk/prioritising-resources-in-logos-4

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 179
Trey Selman | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 11 2010 3:35 PM | Locked

I am getting closer but there is an instance that seems to me that it should work but doesn't

my list is prioritized

ESL
TDNT

I have set the advanced settings for ESL to Apply only to Greek Strong's number

When I am in the ESL and I hover over a str ### link I am now getting the TDNT.

If I click on a Greek Strongs number in the ESV it opens the WSNTDICT

Why is the ESL not associated with the Greek Strong's numbers especially since I have told it to do so specifically and it is prioritized above all others?

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 11 2010 3:51 PM | Locked

Trey Selman:
If I click on a Greek Strongs number in the ESV it opens the WSNTDICT

I have a similar issue. However, when I hover over a Strong's number in the ESL it shows the WSNTDICT entry. When I click on it it goes to that same resource.

I am not sure why an unprioritized resource should be favored over a prioritized one.

Overall I would say my experience with this is that it is not intuitive nor is it as straight-forward as key-linking in Logos 3.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 179
Trey Selman | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 11 2010 4:12 PM | Locked

I've been trying to resist the temptation to say something like shouldn't this "just work".Wink

All I am really trying to do is to get the TDNT volume, page links to show the TDNT without getting hijacked by other resources.

I am trying to work out a compromise (Dave's word) but I am not mediating the conflict or the two resources are just too stubborn to work with me.

I can easily see how it would be beneficial to have the option to choose different  resources to link with the Strong's numbers.

What I don't see is why you would want to do that with the TDNT volume page# links. These should link to the TDNT location seems to me that is how it should work.

I fully understand that I may be blind to a good reason to have this TDNT option but something is still goofy with the ESL.

I am either missing something really basic (being a knucklehead) or something is whacky with the resource.

My best guess is that I am being a knucklehead. Seeing but he does not see and hearing but he does not understand.

If someone has a bigger club to hit me with so I could get it I would appreciate it.

 

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 11 2010 4:23 PM | Locked

Trey Selman:
I've been trying to resist the temptation to say something like shouldn't this "just work".

I my opinion it should. You ought to have to do something special only if you wish to have the non-intuitive response. TDNT numbers should automatically respond with the TDNT entry as long as you have it on your computer. Ditto for L-N numbers. Strong's numbers aren't so simple. In 3.0 I could set the keylink destination for Strong's numbers with ease. Here I have to go through list building and advanced prioritization and I still don't get the result I want. A return to something like the keylink customization we have in 3.0 is needed. There I could set keylink destinations based on data type (Greek Strong's Number, for example). It was datatype specific, not resource specific as in 4.0.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 11 2010 4:29 PM | Locked

Trey Selman:

I am getting closer but there is an instance that seems to me that it should work but doesn't

my list is prioritized

ESL
TDNT

I have set the advanced settings for ESL to Apply only to Greek Strong's number

When I am in the ESL and I hover over a str ### link I am now getting the TDNT.

If I click on a Greek Strongs number in the ESV it opens the WSNTDICT

Why is the ESL not associated with the Greek Strong's numbers especially since I have told it to do so specifically and it is prioritized above all others?

This is what I mean about compromise and side-effects. Unfortunately, the Logos designers don't really appreciate what we are aiming for that was so readily available in L3.

I have the problem that G1937 in ESL also does not provide its internal links in ESL  ==> 1909 goes to VONT  and 2372 goes to TDNT, which happens because both of those are prioritized higher than ESL. It's a pure compromise, mainly because I'm not that fussed about Strong's. I've aimed to have a list that works well for English, Greek and Hebrew headwords.  BUT, I don't appreciate the lack of predictability! 

Now here's the bugbear, VONT is restricted to English headwords! The L4 logic is summarised in http://wiki.logos.com/Bug$3a_Prioritized_resource_incorrectly_listed_on_Context_Menu and you might also try to follow the reasoning from the forum link.

Dave
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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 11 2010 4:38 PM | Locked

Dave Hooton:
Unfortunately, the Logos designers don't really appreciate what we are aiming for that was so readily available in L3.

I recall a bit of discussion about this in the initial beta testing. I think Bob's reply (it applied to parallel resources as well) was that in their studies they discovered features few people used and others that generated too many support calls and eliminated both in 4.0. The cry for a return of the customization of parallel resources has in some measure been responded to. I don't think anything is being done for keylinking. I don't see it as that big of a deal to implement in a way that would be intuitive. Trey's question and our trouble in providing a solution is indicative of the need for this.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 179
Trey Selman | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 11 2010 7:07 PM | Locked

I was also trying to resist saying anything about datatypes and keylinking in L3.

Got to say I much prefer how it was done in L3 than prioritization. It made sense and worked properly while providing a powerful tool.

Mark and Dave, I really appreciate your time and explanations. You have taught me a great deal today and I greatly appreciate it.

Compromise and side-effects.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 11 2010 8:41 PM | Locked

Trey Selman:

Mark and Dave, I really appreciate your time and explanations. You have taught me a great deal today and I greatly appreciate it.

Compromise and side-effects.

The "new" terminologySmile

One user solved a similar dilemma by hiding the unexpected resource. You could consider hiding WSNTDICT!

 

Dave
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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 11 2010 8:45 PM | Locked

Dave Hooton:
One user solved a similar dilemma by hiding the unexpected resource. You could consider hiding WSNTDICT!

Unless you want to use it some other time. Sad

Anyway, instead of cutting off our toes to fit our shoes, why don't we see if the shoemaker will make larger shoes? What do you say, Logos?

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

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