Please pass the Sophocles !

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This post has 18 Replies | 1 Follower

Posts 277
Ergatees | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Nov 4 2014 1:23 PM

I am really hungry for this one.When will the Sophocles Collection (Greek Lexicon) be ready?

I'm dying to know. I'm hungry for it. Please pass me the Sophocles.

Ergatees

Posts 1150
Anthony H | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 5 2014 6:19 AM

It's like pancakes.....        they are done when they are done, doesn't matter how hungry you are for them.

mmmm melted butter, warm maple syrup.. Stick out tongue

But seriously. Which one?

Under Development:

https://www.logos.com/product/8513/e-a-sophocles-collection

Not even started:

https://www.logos.com/product/42537/bristol-classics-sophocles-collection

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 5 2014 10:03 AM

Anthony H:
But seriously. Which one?

If you are really "hungry" I'd go for the one that would satisfy your craving quickly. Smile

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

Posts 1150
Anthony H | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 5 2014 10:10 AM

Bruce Dunning:

Anthony H:
But seriously. Which one?

If you are really "hungry" I'd go for the one that would satisfy your craving quickly. Smile

LOL...batter right out of the bowl.

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 5 2014 12:30 PM

Anthony H:

Bruce Dunning:

Anthony H:
But seriously. Which one?

If you are really "hungry" I'd go for the one that would satisfy your craving quickly. Smile

LOL...batter right out of the bowl.

I think I'd still prefer mine cooked. Smile

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

Posts 277
Ergatees | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 5 2014 5:43 PM

Yum, yum,

Well, I have had Sophocles on order for sooo long. This one: https://www.logos.com/product/8513/e-a-sophocles-collection

I have cancelled some orders before because of the wait, but I won't cancel this one.

I like Greek by Greeks, not geeks. lol

May the Lord shower down some blessings on this and ya'll.

Ergatees

Posts 1586
John Kight | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 5 2014 5:49 PM

I currently have access to GREEK LEXICON of THE ROMAN AND BYZANTINE PERIODS (From B. C. 146 to A. D. 1100). It's is included in L6 Diamond and up. 

 

For book reviews and more visit sojotheo.com 

Posts 276
Greg F | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 5 2014 7:02 PM

This is the kind of thing that bugs me about Community Pricing: Logos games the system. They give you the impression that users get to set prices and more or less determine how quickly a resource enters into production. In reality, however, Logos sets the total production price (without ever telling us what it is), and proceeds to raise or lower the price, as well as ship resources that are supposedly still "under development" to certain users who purchase certain packages.

The same is true for Pre-Pubs: the Bristol Classics Culture and History bundle just jumped from gathering interest to "In Production". Just two days ago it wasn't even close to the halfway point.

While I'm happy when Logos jumps the gun on the "Gathering Interest" phase, I can't help but thing the whole CP process is just another marketing scheme, rather than a coherent and transparent process allowing users to drive prices down and bring popular resources into production. The fact that some people already have the Sophocles lexicon, while those who went through the CP system are still waiting (myself included), makes me wonder why I continue playing the game..

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 5 2014 7:13 PM

The system does seem to be getting a bit frayed.   Logos needs old books to wow the big spenders.  Looks to me, CP is basically just putting an early order in at a low price.  If Logos builds, got it cheap.  If Logos needs another old book for the big spenders, so it goes.  It's sort of Las Vegas at a used furniture store.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 5 2014 7:21 PM

Logos has to balance two elements for CP's:

  • What current Logos users want "now"
  • What is necessary for balanced packages for future use with new features, new resources and new markets

In previous cases, the people who get an "under development" resource as part of a package get it only a few days before it goes out to those getting it out of pre-pub. Yes, we do see odd jumps in status as Logos' estimates and knowledge are refined - sometimes funny, sometimes frustrating but the only foolproof solution would be to give us no knowledge of what is coming down the pipeline.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 277
Ergatees | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 6 2014 6:34 AM

Denise, MJ, et al.

Enlightening comments. If this Sophocles is part of a package then it is available. We should be getting it ASAP.

We who bid ages ago should have some priority here.

Drumming fingers on table (and spinning the wheel of fortune again),

Ergatees

Posts 8899
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 6 2014 10:11 AM

MJ. Smith:
In previous cases, the people who get an "under development" resource as part of a package get it only a few days before it goes out to those getting it out of pre-pub.

What I have seen is this:

• When a CP gets ready after a package that includes it goes live, package owners get it immediately, while others get it ASAP. Often that's just a few days later, but if it gets ready faster than expected, it may take them a couple of weeks to fit it into the shipping schedule and send out the e-mails a reasonable time before. 

• When a CP gets ready before new packages go live, package buyers get it immediately, while others get it 1-2, possibly 3, months later. 

I think there are some very good reasons for this:

  • Package owners have already paid, so they have the right to get things as soon as possible and as soon as they're ready.
  • If they had shipped these finished CP's in October, two things would have happened:
    • lots of people would have returned them again in order to buy them cheaper through a base package, causing CS and Sales lots of completely unnecessary work and costs, and making the phone/chat/e-mail queues longer for all of us.
    • even more people would have ended up paying more than necessary, because they don't know enough to ask for those returns.
  • If they ship them right now, the same two things will happen, only to slightly fewer people (viz. those who haven't bought their package yet, but soon will).
  • Furthermore, I would think CS is pretty swamped right now. I don't think they have time to ship anything.
  • In some cases only one book is included in packages. The fact that it is finished doesn't necessarily mean that all the other books in the collection are.

Therefore, Logos tries to do the best they can in a difficult situation, by giving as many CS bidders as possible the option to buy their books even cheaper than they bargained for through a base package. Once the majority of those who want to has done so, and the pressure on CS has lessened a bit, they'll start regular shipping. I think I've seen a post stating that everything that's finished should ship before the end of January or February.

Greg F:
Logos sets the total production price (without ever telling us what it is), and proceeds to raise or lower the price

That's an unfair description. They don't "set" the total production price. They try to calculate it. From what I understand, they first make a quick calculation (not wanting to spend too much time working on a resource that may never make it through). Then, as it gets closer, they revisit it, and try to make a more exact and reliable calculation. If the resource spends a long time in CP, other things may come into the picture as well: they may lose a good contractor, or find a new cheaper one, or write some code that automates more of the process, or come up with a new feature that requires more tagging. All of which affect the production costs.

Greg F:
the Bristol Classics Culture and History bundle just jumped from gathering interest to "In Production". Just two days ago it wasn't even close to the halfway point.

That could simply mean that a Classics department or two has made it compulsory, and needs it ready for next semester. Or it could mean that a Noet base package is on the way.

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 276
Greg F | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 6 2014 11:02 AM

Thanks fgh, you've convinced me to grant Logos a little more slack in regards to CP. That said, I continue to think that there is a disconnect between what CP purports to do and how Logos uses it to serve their purposes.

But you're right, when Logos changes things behind the scenes, it is generally to the benefit of the users who participated in the bidding process (ie. quicker publishing dates and lower prices). I just wish the process were a little more transparent, but perhaps I'm spoiled by the instant access that these forums provide. ;)

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Veli Voipio | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 6 2014 11:30 AM

Are you talking about the https://www.logos.com/product/8513/e-a-sophocles-collection ?

Seems to ship 20th November

Gold package, and original language material and ancient text material, SIL and UBS books, discourse Hebrew OT and Greek NT. PC with Windows 8.1

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 6 2014 11:41 AM

Sounds like the pancakes are pretty much ready to flip.

Thinking this through in somewhat more depth,  I'm seeing a new and potentially attractive avenue for whining to Logos.   I checked all my pre-orders, and I notice Antioch Bible is not included in any of the packages.  This is NOT right.  Probably Antioch Bible will just sit .... and sit .... and sit.

Classic Hebrew is in a package.  Good.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 8899
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 6 2014 11:50 AM

Veli Voipio:

That raises another question: will those who already own the lexicon get dynamic pricing?

(Plus the more personal question: how much interest do I really have in the other 3 books? (I suspect there will be a lot of cancellations here!))

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 277
Ergatees | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 7 2014 6:09 AM

Thanking all for the many and really informative comments that enlightened me on the ins and outs of commercial publishing,

Yours in Christ,

Ergatees

Posts 277
Ergatees | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 7 2014 6:18 AM

Whoa. Checking my community pricing lists I just saw that Sophocles will be released on this November 20. YEAH!

Big Smile

Thanks for the interest I have seen in this publication. I am hoping it will complete the many other Greek Lexicons I have already.

Ergatees

Posts 7750
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 7 2014 1:15 PM

This set was one of the few items on my pre-pub list I kept.  I took the list from a little over $600 down to $59 bucks to be able to afford my new updates on all of my base packages and got more for my money that way.  I'm sure I'll see some of the titles included on a base package in the future ;-)

DAL

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